This is a reminder to theindependentjournal that I'm looking for a response to his rather serious threat toward ATS and our members.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
ATS can remove my posts and take my points, hell they can ban me from their threads but til they do I will send copies of their JEW HATING NATURE to the JDL and such for proof of their racism and possible actions against ATS by the JDL.

Is there a reason that you believe the contributions of our members in a free-flowing discussion environment reflect the editorial policies and/or management position of the owners of AboveTopSecret.com?

Originally posted by rich23

And by extension, pro Islamic Jihad...

No, no, no. That "by extension" doesn't cut it. It's entirely possible to be appalled by both, which I am. To imply that there's some sort of logical link between one and the other is the most egregious mistake. It's that whole "if you're not with us, you're against us" nonsense.

This is my biggest problem with the post too, and frankly as a huge fan of Mike's other posts - I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the oversimplification. It goes further than the 'if you're not with us...' mentality too. Can I not be 'pro-Islam' without being 'pro-Jihad'?

I'm not saying I am, I'm not really sure where I stand. But I'm definitely not pro-Israel, and I don't think that means that, by default, I'm pro Islamic Jihad.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
This is a reminder to theindependentjournal that I'm looking for a response to his rather serious threat toward ATS and our members.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
ATS can remove my posts and take my points, hell they can ban me from their threads but til they do I will send copies of their JEW HATING NATURE to the JDL and such for proof of their racism and possible actions against ATS by the JDL.

Is there a reason that you believe the contributions of our members in a free-flowing discussion environment reflect the editorial policies and/or management position of the owners of AboveTopSecret.com?

Always say,

the postings of our staff and members does not "necessarily reflect" the beliefs and views of the owners of this website.




Heck, my teacher should be kicked out off this planet if this thread is so bad.

"ATS can remove my posts and take my points, hell they can ban me from their threads but til they do I will send copies of their JEW HATING NATURE to the JDL and such for proof of their racism and possible actions against ATS by the JDL."

Facts are facts, over 100 children are dead due to direct boming by Israel, and this is fascism and no excuse either if you are a Jew, or anything else.

Sick and tierd to see the holocaust card played over and over agian, what do the Palestinians have to do with the holocaust.Even worst the Jewish comunity should learn from the past and not do the same as it was done to them.

Those who drop bombs and kill children are sic sic sic, I don't care if they are Jews or anyother group.How pathetic to kill a bunch of kids and then point the finger at others and call them anti-semitic.Anyone supporting this is a baby eater and is part of the same group and same agenda.

This time it just happens to be Jews behind the joystick and they should take the blame for denying basic human rights to people and for killing kids and then chearing up.Are the Jews some sort of magical human beings and have more rights than other human beings? Is that it?

The Jewish people for me are just as other people nothing more nothing less, when people go wrong they have to take responsability and take the blame.It's plane and simple, stop pulling out the holocaust card.


[edit on 5-1-2009 by pepsi78]

Couldn't agree more.
Some people act like Israel is the root of all evil, as if it is Israel who is forcing Hamas to fire rockets from civilian areas at them.
Sometimes it seems these people have more hatred for Israel then the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.
It is sad and pathetic, because they are taking on a cause without knowing the causes for it, let alone having any understanding of either side in the conflict.

I bet some of these people have no idea that the sole objective of these Islamic terrorists is the destruction of Israel, completely wiping it off the map, and that this war will never end until either they achieve that goal, or Israel eliminates them for good.

A small fact which is being ignored in this latest round of anti-semitism.
HAMAS started the shooting.
The 6 month ceasefire ended, and it was HAMAS which began firing rockets at Israel, and Israel responded.

And even during the ceasefire, Hamas would still occasionally fire rockets at Israel.

So pull your self righteous heads out of the gutter and open your eyes.

mikesingh are you a US citizen ?, because im lucky enough to live in one of the fortunate countries to have free health care. Maybe just maybe if the US did not support Israel to the tune of a few billion dollars a year you guys mite also be able to enjoy one of the most baisc human rights.

Sadly i can only imagine what it must be like to have to pay for a basic visit to a GP, i guess some of the ATS members are unhappy that there health care money is going a Israel while US citizens are dying in the droves.

ATS can remove my posts and take my points, hell they can ban me from their threads but til they do I will send copies of their JEW HATING NATURE to the JDL and such for proof of their racism and possible actions against ATS by the JDL.

I see you have recently converted from Scientology to Judaeism.

Israel is not Jews. Hamas IS Islamic. The Israeli army is Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, gays, whites, blacks; a people unified under an accountable democracy using force agains a terrorists. Not Palestinians.

Hamas, an acronym for "Islamic Resistance Movement", believes that a section of land belongs to their specific genetic lineage and no one else. Their charter (functioning like our constitution), declares that a specific group of people, because of either their religios beliefs or their genetic kinsip to a specific ancestry, are an enemy and should be killed. Look it up(btw they are talking about jews). Hamas uses the palestinian people as media fire for their Theocratic state actions. They preach hate to children, they kill women and gays and retractors of their muslim faith, and they specifically target rockets attacks at civilian areas in israel. On the contrary, Hamas hides its weapons under schools and hospitals and mosques; no one will deny that fact. A Hamas attack position cannot be taken out without collateral damage.

1. Name the wars that didnt have collateral damage.
2. If I was to play ball, and agree that, the way Israel is handling the rocket attacks is out of line; What is the better way for Israel to handle the terrorist attacks from Hamas?


I' sick of these hippies and their support for fascist, racist, sexist, violent, religion legislated, Theocratic governments run by mobster big-name-family patriarchs, and thinking that this is a war between Israel and Palestine instead of a war between a multicultural free people and a terrorist faith group.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I have no reason to love Palestinians outside of that their human, nut when looking at the facts (all the facts) it is hard to not see Israel as the aggressor.

AAC, but why is there so much bias against Israel in the posts? Why not against the Hamas and other terrorist organizations? A more even handed approach would perhaps have been better. Yes, both need to stop the war now and this isn't negotiable. As I mentioned, killing of innocent civilians whether they be Palestinian or Israeli, is UNACCEPTABLE.

For starters, I'm not going back into history. Let’s be clear that this Israeli Offensive did not happen in a vacuum. Southern Israel bordering Gaza was under a constant barrage of rockets and mortars. Since Israel’s pullout of the Gaza strip in Aug 2005, over 5500 rockets and mortar rounds have been fired against the state, disrupting normal routine in the border towns notably Sderot. WHY?

Why was Hamas indulging in this sort of brinkmanship? Why couldn’t they shut the heck up with their rockets fire and come to the negotiating table instead? They refused and continued to finger Israel. WHY?

As if this was not enough, when the Egyptian brokered ceasefire ended in mid December, Hamas leaders publicly vowed NOT to renew the agreement. WHY?

The reduction in the number of suicide attacks against Israel could partly be attributed to Egyptian mediation. These efforts resulted in the six-month lull agreed by Hamas in the summer of 2008. But the efforts to renew this arrangement were squarely rejected by Hamas, resulting in Egyptian anger and displeasure too. WHY?

My question is why did Hamas blow a comparatively peaceful situation and start firing rockets into Israel two days after the latest ceasefire had ended? WHY? What was the need to screw things up in the first place? Don't you think they should have depended more on holding negotiations than firing away their rockets into Israel without provocation, forcing Israel to react?

To add to the mix is the considerable internal schism between the Hamas and Fatah themselves. Whilst condemning the Israeli offensive, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas did not let the Hamas off the hook, and bluntly told reporters in Cairo: “We talked to Hamas and told them to please not end the truce. Let it continue and not stop so that we could have avoided what has just happened.”

But are the terrorists listening even to their own people whom they claim to represent? Hamas cannot escape the consequences of its actions and are squarely to be blamed this time around and the Palestinians are now paying with their blood!.


To both sides I would say, GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!

The KEY problem when discussing this conflict is the way people with different views on the situation are classified as either for or against, and this is then taken personally or with prejudice to fuel more debate.

There really are SO many conflicting views on this whole crisis, it is easy to be caught up in the emotion and passion of your feelings for what you feel is true or real. It is extremely difficult, but we all need to think what are the best actions in order to achieve realistic happiness for ALL people in that region. Please don't suggest silly, primitive slogans that sympathise with your Inner-Political views.

Also, a few things that MUST be said:

- NOT all Jews around the world support or condone the actions of the ISRAELI politicians. Thus, it is really stupid to build on anti-Israel and/or anti-Jewish sentiment to push either view. Even the country as a whole is unfair to rally against because it is really the Government that is making and allowing these actions to continue. The Israeli Government should be the target of protests, not the whole country.

- It is grossly unfair to label all Palestinians as terrorists. I see this being done by many to fuel their pro-Israel stance. Palestinians are people and deserve to be treated as such. You CANNOT just throw all Palestinians into the "part of the problem Terrorist" basket, thus "its ok to let their civilians die." REMOVE your strong feelings of allegiance to Israel for a moment - ordinary fathers, mothers, children and whole families are being killed and torn apart. The traumatisation of the survivors is perhaps the most dangerous consequence of this. If your whole family was killed by the Israeli army at a young age and you survive...you know the rest.

- Please stop referring to this situation as Genocide. The Israeli government is NOT attempting to systematically annihilate the Palestinians as a people. (Not defending their block aid/controlling policies, but they actually COULD systematically wipe out all Palestinians if they willed. They have had opportunities to do this and they have not.) They want to stop threats from religious fanatics against their country - yes this situation is destroying the morale of both people. But the policies that the Government is using is resulting in mass civilian casualties (again, this is NOT its intention, but is in reality what is happening as a result of these policies.)

- As many have probably noticed: this whole issue is touching the heart of many around the world. This might be the most delicate issue of our time in terms of global peace and stability; we must think before we act.

In addition, two irrefutable facts remain:

1) For every civilian Palestinian life that is taken, Israel (unfortunately, the country as a WHOLE) is losing the support, patience and sympathy of most people around the world (those not living in the area.) This is not something you can ignore, and Israeli politicians should be much more mindful of this.

2) For every Islamic extremist fanatic that continues to fire rockets and shells into Israeli territory, you ARE also losing sympathy for ALL Palestinians as a whole. If you REALLY care about your family and friends, STOP firing. Doing this intentionally among civilians is not just cowardly but grossly irresponsible for the welfare of your people.

Less violence and more dialogue will result in a more positive outcome.

1 point i would like to make is.

who ever thinks this has nothing to do with religion is a big fool.

all troughout history because of religion thesetwo group of people have clashed because of religion.

now is no different.

bc if thy were both muslim states this would not be going on.

Originally posted by RFBurns
Thats the problem with most these days. They do not want to look at the whole story, just the bits and pieces to fit their point of view and support for which ever side they happen to be on.

Now look at what he wrote and think of it.

The lack of knowledge on this forum about this conflict is truly amazing. Many people on here seem to have a memory of one week and seem to think that this all started with Hamas firing rockets into Israel. In reality, it was Israel that broke the truce.

Yesterday an ex minister of Foreign Affairs asked a very interesting question: why is Israel allowed to be above the law while others should abide? The Israeli government has committed so many crimes which always go unpunished while others such as Russia are condemned for doing the same (Georgia - Russia conflict).

Regardless of whatever reason, if countries don't abide international laws anymore, why would we use them any longer?





[edit on 6-1-2009 by Mdv2]

This is going in the both the anti and pro Israel post .

The old adage 2 wrongs dont make a right . Israel gets rockets fired in the city 10 killed Israel goes to Gaze kills 200 . Damn it Hamas and Israel if you want to fight fine kill the troops and militants leave the non combatants out of the war. Quit killing women and children killing them only fans the flames .

These people have been killing each other for generations . Every time there is a chance at peace one of you screws it up .

IF the UN moved a group of people in my area set up that a new government Which then kicked me out of the home and farm that has been in my family for generations killed my wife and one of my kids then moved a new settler into my old family home you are darn right I would be mad. No one in his right mind woundnt be mad ! Now to kill innocent by standers to get back for that crime is just as wrong .

This is so reminiscent of what happened to the American Indians . The were penned them up and any resistance or up rising was met with extreme prejudice men women and babies killed not just the braves that did the acts . We literally starved some tribes into submission . The longest Walk is a good example. We were wrong then and Israel is Wrong now ! Segregation and starvation is wrong denial of medical care and killing of innocents is wrong on both sides .

When we had gang war fare in the 30s we threw both bosses in jail and killed or threw all the rank and file in jail as well .We continued doing that till the violence subsided . Is that what the UN will have to do to stop the madness ?

It seems we have 2 criminal elements fighting each other. Killing non combatants is a crime .

I bet every one wants peace but what will they give up for peace ? Will they share a little political power a little land will they give up the need for revenge and stop killing women and children . If neither side will give up killing non combatants then it will never end till one is utterly destroyed . As long as they both have political machines that are hell bent on the others destruction this will never end .And if neither side will give up killing innocent bystanders again this will never end . And supporting either side is contributing to the genocidal destruction of a culture .

How many talks, how many prisoners will Israel release, how many ceasefires, will Israel go through, before people wake up and realize it is Hamas which wants all out war?

Think about this.
The cesefire ended. Israel did not go ape sh*t and start bombing things.
Hamas though started firing rockets again.
Israel could have declared all out war, and leveled half of Gaza and then sent in thousands of troops backed by armour to mop up what was left.

Instead what we have seen is pin point strikes on HAMAS targets. The very fact Hamas operates in civilian areas can not be put on Israels shoulders. Hamas uses the civilian population as a shield.
Israel needs to respond, it can either do so with brutal all out force that shows no mercy to anyone in the way, or it can do so with laser guided munitions on specific targets.

They have sent in ground troops, cutting Gaza in half. Limiting the moveability of Hamas.
The alternative could be much, much worse.

If Israel had gone in with full force from the start, by now we wouldn't be talking about the Gaza strip, but the former Gaza strip.

Has Hamas stopped firing rockets? No. They continue.


You can argue all day and night for weeks if you want, on who has more right to live where and why.
But the reality is, Israel is a sovereign country. It has a right to exist, as do the Palestinians. The Palestinians do them selves no favour when they vote for a terrorist organisation.
They have had many chances for peace and their own state.
But as long as they keep supporting Hamas and other terrorists, it will remain out of their grasp.

The choice is theres ultimately. Do they want peace, their own country, an end to checkpoints and missile strikes that innocents get caught up in, or do they want to keep backing Hamas and stay at war with Israel, with more innocent people dying?

How anyone can back a group like Hamas, is beyond me.