Undeniable 10 Evidence's of Global Warming, page 3

reply to post by Zaphod58

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Really? Every planet in the solar system is heating up? And how could anyone possibly know that? With a telescope. We have a robot on Mars and are making mind boggling discoveries that we didn't know. No one, should ever be so presumptuous, as to know what is going on witht he whole solar system.

As for solar flares, the sun ebbs and flows quite frequently, if not every 12 years then every few decades. Then our climate would change quite frequently and quickly and we would all be dead.

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Zaphod58

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we've managed to cut down most of the planets old growth forests, how does that not contribute to climate change?

in 200 years we've whipped out most of the trees, fish and large animals.

good track record

thats total BS

hardly any of the forest has been cut down yet...ever been to canada?

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

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You can't have it both ways.

If there is only a 100 years of data(not true btw, but for sake of arguement). Then you don't know anymore about Earth Cycles then you do about global warming. Then all we have is what is known for a 100 years.

You can't say GW advocates don't know enough, but that data is ok to say that this is a natural cycle for thousands of years.

NOW, lets take that 100 years that we all only have to go on, and what is that picture saying?

Originally posted by lernmore
See that's the big problem. You're trying to use data from the last 50 years which is completely laughable. Lookup "midevil warming period" and you'll see that the earth was MUCH warmer than it is now. It must be those turbo-charged donkey carts responsible for that eh? (I stole that line from another source)

Man, I was really trying not to get involved in this discussion. I recently had a rather lengthy back and forth about AGW in this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

However, I could not resist.

You are dead wrong about the Medieval Warming Period. This period is better known in scientific circles as the Little Climactic Optimum. The problem with using the MWP as a basis for Global Warming debunking is that the data used to develop the MWP theory is localized to Europe alone. Basically, when making determinations about Global Temperature, it is necessary to have temperature records on a global scale. More accurate findings based on ice core readings and tree ring studies on a global scale indicate that Global Temperatures during the Medieval Warming Period were in fact comparable to the Global Temperatures present in the early to mid 20th century and thus, LESS than they are today. Essentially, the Medieval Warming Period is a FARCE.

Originally posted by lernmore
Scientific data shows warming and cooling periods of 110,000 years and you're being "duped into believing that the last few years are more than insignificant. The term Global Warming" isn't even being used as the fear phrase anymore, now it's "Climate Change".

You are correct about the cyclical nature of warming and cooling. However, what you are ignoring is that we also have records of global CO2 levels from ice core readings. These CO2 level records also indicate a cyclical nature in Global CO2 concentrations (measured in PPM) that correlate with cyclical temperature changes. The problem is, CO2 levels have NEVER been as high as they are TODAY (well, at least not for the last 650,000 years). And, as previously stated by the OP, CO2 levels are expected to more than double over the next 100 years due to mans expansion in the use of fossil fuels.

If the correlations between global temperatures and global CO2 concentrations continue to occur, CO2 concentrations more than twice as high as has ever been known to exist will translate into temperatures far greater than we know to have existed.

Originally posted by lernmore
You see "green" this and "green" that everywhere you look, it's BIG business right now. Federally funded "scientists" are getting paid for their "studies". If they don't have some life-ending, earth changing disaster that needs "more study" in the works, guess what? Their funding dries up and they have to go looking for work. It's all about money, and it's all lies so they can squeeze more out of us in the form of a "Carbon Tax".

Well, when "green" business accounts for even a fraction of the profits generated by the Oil, Coal, and other polluting industries you let me know. Maybe then I will begin to recognize this conspiracy you are suggesting. Until then, I think I will feel confident that the only conspiracy present is the massive amount of misinformation being created by the aforementioned global polluters intended to muddy the waters of this issue (misinformation by the way that I believe you have swallowed hook, line, and sinker).

Originally posted by lernmore
Point 3...Along with the earth, the temperature of the other planets in our solar system is also rising, look it up.

I will agree with you that, if true, this is one of the more interesting ideas surrounding the AGW debate. I mean, obviously man is not affecting the temperatures of every planet in our solar system. And, if the temperatures of other planets are increasing due to some yet to be fully understood phenomenon, it stands to reason that the Earth's temperatures is also being affected by this phenomenon. I would expect to hear more about this issue in the future.

reply to post by peacejet

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Liberal lies to get more money from tax paying Americans, the temp has actually cooled by 1 degree in the last 4 years making gorebal warming moot.

Not one of these are provable... It's all theory, nothing factual.. In other words it's all B.S. BTW, the poles are getting thicker these days, there is a cooling trend and guess what, there is one on Mars as well.. Only idiots believe this tripe, it's all about NWO, not scientific fact and that's why Al Gore has been sued recently. BTW Soviet scientists proved this years ago and predicted it as well, they also predicted the cooling trend that is happening now and their prediction was based on mathematical fact and sun spots... So how come they are accurate?

BTW, the more green we go, the less economy we have and the more people will starve... That's what is going on now, the ultimate green planet is what the native americans had, no economy, no houses, plenty of disease to go around and a billion buffalo...

BTW, unless you have lived for the last 10 billion years there is no way to prove the stupid huricane in LA was the largest ever to hit there... Just saying that proves how dumb the liberal agenda is..


Quote:
All of you might be aware that the arctic ice had melted enough last year to allow ships to pass through.

Response:
This is a lie... Proven to be a lie as the State of Alaska temperatures are 10 below normal and the ice never melted, it's getting thicker..

www.adn.com...

wattsupwiththat.com...

So I have another question: How many dumb people now inhabit the earth? It should be eqivalent to the number of sheeple...

Originally posted by peacejet
Now, it is time to provide the evidence of man made global warming, Scientific American has compiled the list of the top ten places in the world affected by global warming.

1.Darfur, Sudan-

Until the rains failed in Darfur, the region's pastoralists lived amicably with the settled farmers. But with the land crippled by a decades-long drought, the region was no longer able to support both. Farmers began to fence off their fields, and clashes broke out between sedentary and nomadic tribes.

The reason-

So what caused the rains to fail? When climate scientists studied the drought, they discovered that rising temperatures in the tropical and southern oceans had combined with cooling in the North Atlantic to disrupt the African monsoons. The roots of the drying in Darfur lay in changes to the global climate.

2.Gulf Coast, United States-

All the members might be aware of the damage caused by Hurricane katrina, it was the worst storm ever, and the sheer intensity of the hurricane is the actual evidence of global warming.

Swiss Re, an insurer to insurance companies, keeps three climatologists on staff to try to predict such future damages. In a report released just before the 2004 season, the reinsurer predicted that another decade of global warming would cost insurers more than $30 billion in weather-related claims every year.

The reason-

"It's not that climate change is out there in the future," he says. "It's already happening. And the future will probably look a bit like this."

3. Italy-

This country has been plagued by diseases due to the mild winter induced by global warming.

In August 2007, an epidemic swept through Castiglione di Cervia, a small village in northern Italy. More than 100 of the town's 2,000 residents came down with high fever, rashes and crushing pain in their bones and joints. An unusually mild winter had allowed Asian tiger mosquitoes to start breeding early, and their population had soared. When an Italian tourist returned from India with chikungunya, a relative of dengue fever, the insects provided the perfect vector. According to officials at the World Health Organization (WHO), the epidemic was the first European outbreak of a tropical disease caused by climate change.

The Reason-

Climate change has accelerated the spread of dengue fever and other tropical maladies, such as malaria, borne by mosquitoes. The insect's larvae mature more rapidly when the water in which they grow is warm. And female mosquitoes digest blood faster and bite more frequently as the mercury rises.

4. Northern Europe-

In the 27 wine regions Jones examined, temperatures had risen on average 2.3 degrees F (1.3 degrees C), producing a corresponding increase in the strength of the wines; faster ripening resulted in more sugar for the yeast to ferment. Even more striking was the warming's impact on ratings. With very few exceptions, they rose dramatically. On average, a 1.8-degree F (1-degree C) rise in temperature yielded a boost of 13 rating points. The big winners were German wines, with leaps of more than 20 points, and those from the cooler regions of France.

The reason-

climate change had warmed most regions to the point where quality was at or near its peak. As temperatures continue to rise, growers around the globe will begin to find that their fruit is ripening too fast. The best conditions for growing wine will spread north and uphill. Indeed, producers are already expanding into Holland, Belgium and even Denmark. In Spain they're moving into the Pyrenees. England probably has more land under wine cultivation than it did during its last heydaythe 12th century at the end of the Medieval Warm Period.

5. Great Barrier Reef, Australia-

The carbon-di-oxide released into the atmosphere, gets absorbed in the sea water and reducing the Ph, thus increasing its acidity.

The first to feel the impact are the creatures of the sea that use calcium carbonate to form their shells and exoskeletons. The acidic (or actually less alkaline) water wears away at crabs, mollusks and sea snails. Coral reefs face a double whammy as the changing ocean chemistry adds to the stress of unusually warm water. Australia's Great Barrier Reef lost an estimated 10 percent of its coral to mass bleaching in 1998 and 2002.

The reason-

we've added enough carbon to shift the pH of the world's waters from 8.2 to 8.1.

6. Island's in the Pacific Ocean-

Last summer, the tiny Pacific island nation of Kiribati became the first country to declare that global warming is rendering its lands uninhabitable, asking for help in evacuating its population.

And also, in the list, is Maldives, an island nation in the Indian Ocean.

While Kiribati awaits word if any countries will open their doors for its 100,000 residents, the Maldives--similarly threatened, but richer in tourist dollars--is shopping for a new homeland. In November, the country's first democratically elected president announced he was establishing an investment fund in hopes of buying new land for the country's 300,000 citizens.

The reason-

Island nations aren't the only ones watching the waves. A three-foot rise in sea level would flood one seventh of Bangladesh's territory, force the Netherlands to beef up its flood control, and threaten coastal cities around the world. And even before the top tourist destinations disappear underwater, they will have lost their luster: Higher and wilder waves mean increased erosion, fewer white, sandy beaches, and more rocky coves.

7. Wahington D.C. -

In richer countries the impact will more likely be political. Increased population flows are giving anti-immigrant groups an opportunity to couch their arguments in the language of the environment.In richer countries the impact will more likely be political. Increased population flows are giving anti-immigrant groups an opportunity to couch their arguments in the language of the environment.The Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., argues that people moving into the U.S. from the developing world are impeding the fight against climate change by producing four times as much carbon dioxide in their new homes as they would have in their native countries.

"Already, a large volume of south to north migration in the Americas is straining some states and is the subject of national debate," 11 retired U.S. admirals and generals wrote in a 2007 report for the Center for Naval Analyses, a national security think tank. "The migration is now largely driven by economics and political instability," the report says. "The rate of immigration from Mexico to the United States is likely to rise because the water situation in Mexico is already marginal and could worsen with less rainfall and more droughts. Increases in weather disasters, such as hurricanes elsewhere, will also stimulate migrations to the United States."

The Reason-

The London-based Christian Aid estimates that by 2050, floods, droughts and famine caused by climate change will have driven 250 million people from their homes--more than the 163 million people currently displaced by wars, famine or ecological disasters.

8. NorthWest Passage, Arctic Circle-

All of you might be aware that the arctic ice had melted enough last year to allow ships to pass through.

The melting of the Arctic has spurred a geopolitical race, as Russia, Norway, the U.S., Canada and Denmark press competing claims for the top of the world. But whereas the competition is in part driven by the promises of undiscovered metal, minerals and petroleum, the melting ice is already uncovering another valuable resource: the waves underneath it.

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Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Zaphod58

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While I agree that there may be a cycle the planet is going through, I strongly believe that mankind is making things worse by polluting and deforesting the planet.

Believe it all you want. But there is no real evidence that the changes are man made, or even "man-influenced" - no matter how the eco-nazis would wish it so. In fact, evidence seems to be mounting to the contrary. Of course, if you've already decided, no amount of real evidence is likely to change your mind.

And if mankind does not have to power to cause or influence the change, then mankind hardly has the ability to stop any natural changes from occurring.

No, the answer is to adapt to the changes as best we can.


Speaking of eco-nazis, I read tyhat their latest folly was to try and ban Christmas lights.

[edit on 12/30/2008 by centurion1211]

www.telegraph.co.uk...

First, all over the world, temperatures have been dropping in a way wholly unpredicted by all those computer models which have been used as the main drivers of the scare. Last winter, as temperatures plummeted, many parts of the world had snowfalls on a scale not seen for decades. This winter, with the whole of Canada and half the US under snow, looks likely to be even worse. After several years flatlining, global temperatures have dropped sharply enough to cancel out much of their net rise in the 20th century.


Roper

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Zaphod58

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Really? Every planet in the solar system is heating up? And how could anyone possibly know that?

OMG. Please do just a little research before making statements like this. There are many direct and indirect ways to measure the temperature of other planets in the solar system. And these measurements involve way more hard science than the so-called man-made global warming theories do.

Originally posted by Roper
After several years flatlining, global temperatures have dropped sharply enough to cancel out much of their net rise in the 20th century.

So wrong, but I know it's just too easy to regurgitate denier talking points.

Also, I keep seeing the BS about all the planets in the solar system warming and it's, again, just so wrong.

Originally posted by zaphod58
Climate change IS happening, but it's not caused by man. Unless you're saying that there are people on every planet in the solar system.

Originally posted by lernmore
Along with the earth, the temperature of the other planets in our solar system is also rising, look it up.

Originally posted by Ameratsu
Given that the planets, ALL of them, are showing signs of warming

Down Uranus!

We observed a stellar occultation of the star U149 by Uranus from
Lowell Observatory and the IRTF on Mauna Kea on November 6,
1998. The temperatures derived from isothermal fits to the Lowell
lightcurves are 116.7 +/- 7.9 K for immersion, and 124.8 +/- 15.5 K
for emersion. The secular increase in temperature seen during the
period 1977–1983 has reversed. Furthermore, the rate of decrease
(1.2 K/yr) cannot be explained solely by radiative cooling. Although
the temperature structure of Uranus’ upper atmosphere
may be related to seasonal effects (e.g., the subsolar latitude) or local
conditions (e.g., diurnally averaged insolation), these observations
suggest nonradiative influences on the temperature, such as adiabatic
heating/cooling or thermal conduction.

link

But, of course, not one will check themselves or their source, just keep regurgitating the same old.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Originally posted by lernmore
reply to post by melatonin

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You say I'm cherry picking, then you choose IPCC data? HoHo HeHe
Can you say "hockey stick"?
Who do you think is trying to sell us this garbage?

IPCC produce no data. You are just showing how little you really understand this area. The IPCC integrates scientific research. If you check the research, you'll find lots of 'Hockey sticks'. And the IPCC has collected the research and presented enough Hockey sticks to kit out the Montreal Canadiens.



[edit on 30-12-2008 by melatonin]

Global Warming is so full of BS... Scientists have even done the research and have came to the conclussion that the Earth is cooling down and NOT warming up. Back in the 1400's they had higher temps then what we have now (even with all the CO2 in the air) and I don't think there were cars, or industries to pollute the Earth back then. The Earth is heading towards another Ice Age, and we are due for one. This winter alone even the Desert had snow, and not just it's annual snowfall, it had record breaking snowfall, all of canada most of US and even the top of the Baja in Mexico had snow. Blame Al Gore and his BS research, which if you did your own research, you would know the REAL truth and the holes in Gore's bs. The so called Carbon Tax is so fake, they just want more money out of your pockets to put into theirs, and they want to keep raising it too, how what kinda crap is that. It doesn't go for anything but into their hands. Why not tax the crap out of all those companies and industries along the Great Lakes and along all of our main rivers and waterways? but instead the average tax payer has to do it. Al Gore's mansion uses enough eletricity in one month, that could power a regular house for 6 months... now who's trying to pull the scam? they should make him pay a lot more then the average household. Global Warming is a myth and a false statement. Don't fall for that crap.


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[edit on 30-12-2008 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by peacejet
To Slayer69-
I accept that the earth had undergone heating and cooling over the centuries, but what you must take into consideration is the time scale, the natural heating took thousands of years, while this is occuring in just 50 years, and also, the heating in those centuries was caused by the sudden eruption of volcanoes which release tonnes of gases into the atmosphere, but there is no recorded evidence of any huge volcanic activity over the years, except the mount St.Helens in Washington and Krakatoa in Indonesia, which do not come anywhere near the massive explosions to cause such change.

[edit on 29/12/08 by peacejet]

The last Super Eruption was Toba, about 74,000 years ago.

Toba Catastrophe Theory

It wiped out most life on the entire planet.

Created what is know as the genetic bottleneck.

It is still a theory, but the evidence is pretty overwhleming.

It is fact that there are several Super Volcanoes on the planet
and they have had colossal super eruptions.

In North America is Yellowstone, and it has had over 250 quakes
in the past few days, but it is not likely to erupt anytime soon.

I do feel that we have raised the acid level in the oceans and
are responsible for the massive coral die off.

The coral is a support mechanism for sea life, so we are indirectly
killing our own food supply in the way of fish.

We need to move to total sustainability and we can easily do it
wihout fossil fuels, we just choose not to do it.

Until we have the brilliant ppl of the world running the world,
we will leave with the consequences of leadership of lesser men.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

thats total BS

hardly any of the forest has been cut down yet...ever been to canada?

Have you ever been to the amazon region of brazil?

Do you know how much forest we have lost in the 'lung's of the world'.

Take a look at this link,

news.mongabay.com...

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