All I have to say about the AGW theory is when the scientist start making the models, data, experiments, and details of how they ran the models, i.e. imputed the data in what order the level of forcing ect. Then I will believe it.

In other words when the science is independently verified from other scientist outside of the AGW alarmist circle, then I'll pay attention and listen to what they have to say.

As far as the 'evidence' that you listed 'proving' global warming is nothing more than natural changes in the climate. Egypt used to be a grassland where they could farm crops and sustain a civilization for a few thousand years. They used to farm crops in Greenland.

The ice core data is unreliable, and also changing a theory into law with only 100 years of sketchy data collection and saying that it is undeniable proof of AGW is very gullible.

Also it doesn't help that Hansen went on his right wing conspiracy tinge when the Bush Admin wouldn't let him present his findings, when in fact they would have let him present them if he would have submitted his data for independent review. Which he threw a temper tantrum like a little kid.

To me being an open mind and a former believer of AGW there is actually no evidence to support it there is more evidence supporting that it is a natural cycle than anything.

Originally posted by peacejet
To Slayer69-
I accept that the earth had undergone heating and cooling over the centuries, but what you must take into consideration is the time scale, the natural heating took thousands of years, while this is occuring in just 50 years, and also, the heating in those centuries was caused by the sudden eruption of volcanoes which release tonnes of gases into the atmosphere, but there is no recorded evidence of any huge volcanic activity over the years, except the mount St.Helens in Washington and Krakatoa in Indonesia, which do not come anywhere near the massive explosions to cause such change.

[edit on 29/12/08 by peacejet]

See that's the big problem. You're trying to use data from the last 50 years which is completely laughable. Lookup "midevil warming period" and you'll see that the earth was MUCH warmer than it is now. It must be those turbo-charged donkey carts responsible for that eh? (I stole that line from another source)

Scientific data shows warming and cooling periods of 110,000 years and you're being "duped into believing that the last few years are more than insignificant. The term Global Warming" isn't even being used as the fear phrase anymore, now it's "Climate Change".

You see "green" this and "green" that everywhere you look, it's BIG business right now. Federally funded "scientists" are getting paid for their "studies". If they don't have some life-ending, earth changing disaster that needs "more study" in the works, guess what? Their funding dries up and they have to go looking for work. It's all about money, and it's all lies so they can squeeze more out of us in the form of a "Carbon Tax".

My second point to your argument is the fact that volcanism on a large scale does the opposite of what you're trying to say. Large amounts of strata ejected into the atmosphere blocks out the sun. Some scientists think that if a super-volcano like Yellowstone erupts, the temperature of the entire earth would drop by about 17 degrees.

Point 3...Along with the earth, the temperature of the other planets in our solar system is also rising, look it up.

Water vapor alone holds in more of the suns heat, by comparison, than we could ever produce in the form of c02.

Again, I agree that we're having a detrimental effect on our planet, but the warming isn't one of them.


Peace

Originally posted by lernmore
My second point to your argument is the fact that volcanism on a large scale does the opposite of what you're trying to say. Large amounts of strata ejected into the atmosphere blocks out the sun. Some scientists think that if a super-volcano like Yellowstone erupts, the temperature of the entire earth would drop by about 17 degrees.

Point 3...Along with the earth, the temperature of the other planets in our solar system is also rising, look it up.

Water vapor alone holds in more of the suns heat, by comparison, than we could ever produce in the form of c02.

As I had already mentioned in a previous post, i dont want to make this political with the discussion about the plan to collect more taxes from the people.

As regards to previous rise in temperatures, corresponding to high CO2 levels, take a look at this graph,



And tell, is the CO2 level now, close to anytime in the past?, you can see an almost exponential increase in the concentration.

For you stating of volcanic activity, what you said is correct, the earth will experience a nuclear winter for a year or so, causing temperatures to plummet across the globe. But, that is due to the ash alone.You didnt consider other gases such as methane and sulphur-di-oxide.

The ash will eventually settle down on earth, but the gases wont and in the long term, they heat the earth. Didnt you study that the first greenhouse gases in the atmosphere were due to volcanoes? And I would say that we are merely accelerating it.

And for your third point, I know that the other planets are warming up, and it is only due to the sun's natural cycle, but ours is not, look at the CO2 graph i posted above, that will explain it, our planet is becoming more like venus.

And if you dont care now, you are not going to pay the price anyway, it would be your children and grandchildren who will be paying the heavy toll for this, keep that in mind.

The earth will continue to do what it's been doing for millions of years. It will get warmer and it will get cooler. Is reducing the amount of c02 and pollutants a good thing? Yes it is. What was the argument again?

My opinion:

We just now (guessing the last 50 years) have been putting focus on climate.

We have a tendancy to screw up our facts and then want everyone to believe what we are saying is truth based on facts that may or may not be screwed up.

We cannot pretend to know what the earth was like 5000, 10000 or 100000 years ago. We can give it a best guess though. My best guess is that our best guess will be flawed.

My opinion, in the scope of things, Global warming is a new cash cow. We have scientists on both sides arguing this one. Al Gore is not a scientist nor an authority on the matter. Neither am I and I doubt we have anyone that can say with 100% (let alone 80%) certainty that they know exactly what they are talking about on this subject.

While I freeze my sack off because we are experiencing colder weather than usual over the past 5 years in the Midwest. Hmmmmm...

I'm sorry, but I listened to what the 'experts' were saying and I started to believe them. I don't want to harm this planet any. But, after really looking into things I do not believe the 'global warming' being caused by man anymore. There are simply too many main stream REAL EXPERTS that say it is a natural cycle. Especially when a single cow puts out more methane and such in a single year than 10+ households.

I know it is a conspiracy site but I am starting to believe that the conspiracy for this subject may in fact be that people are trying to SELL the global warming theory to the people. Kind of like they did about 5 decades ago when we went through a similar warming then cooling trend.

Erm, there is no global warming, only climate change.