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posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:47 PM
reply to post by MatrixProphet

I heard the Bush land thing too, but it was Paraguay and it was to gain control of the water there.

This guy apparently found some official denial of it but you can judge for yourself. Even the author doesnt sound too convinced by the official denial.

As far as what to do with the cash you have Bruxfain, (sorry if I am spelling it wrong I cant see it right now) no one really knows. Your guess is as good as anyones.

My advice would be;

Dont act based on fear. Dont let fear make you either follow the herd or run the opposite way. Try to get yourself as centered as you can and try to listen to what you intuition is telling you. It can be hard to tell the difference between fear and intuition so meditate or whatever you do to calm yourself down completely, then listen to your intuition.

I have heard about funds that carry a variety of currencies so that your risk is sort of spread out over several currencies to help reduce the risk of a large drop in value of any one. I am going to be looking into those.

Other than that, land or other "real" things sounds pretty good. I would be wary of gold and silver. They have been used as currency so long that there are far, far more savvy people than us who know when to buy or sell them, and I worry that price of those are too easily manipulated.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 02:09 PM
so, as goes all this info, when it comes to being prepared, as far as supplies, etc...what would be our best options? like as far as food?...stock pile? but what resources? frozen bread? or the wheat itself? fruit...or seeds? or I guess frozen fruit would be an option..but what about energy sources? if people can't afford they're bills, heat, air, electricity...where should we put our money? Gold doesn't seem to be the best option right now, and obviously neither are the banks........don't want to go all biblical..but it is Sunday...did you know in the bible, when the israelites first went left Egypt, they asked for a ruler, and God warned them against it....he then also warned against having a money system, because instead he wanted everyone to just take what was needed, he had actually set them up for this with the desert and manna...teaching them to only take what they needed, and not more than that...if they had done so, they would have no need of a money system, but they rebelled against that warning, and wala..they began they're money system....just wondering if it wasn't a figuartive story of some hippie type figure in the far ancient days warning against a money system...such as we have today..imagine if instead of money, if everyone just took what they needed and not more. its a utopia way of thinking of course.....but now we see what money systems can do.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 02:21 PM
Good comments on listening to intuition. Methinks that land, where you are not paying out any rent, is a good thing, but not necessarily as an investment. A fund with multiple currencies is protected unLESS they are all plunging. Like now. Buy what? Well, remember the old fruit cellars, where you would stash food? Maybe buy a grocery store? The world population is, today, more alive than have ever existed in history. Where is that food coming from, to produce that? Much of it has come from America. And America is now learning to rotate crops, and reenrich the soil with micronutrients, that we really need, but no longer have in our foods. And we are nuking all the enzymes with microwaves, or during processing. Grow your own food, as a hobby even, and sell it at farmers markets. Buying any stocks or options is subject to them selling you stock that they don't have. So if you buy it, and it does not exist, do you really own it? He is right about gold being manipulated, I wouldn't touch it, much, maybe some collectible coins only. That would be hard for them to run a scam on, if you have it certified.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 02:31 PM
reply to post by anachryon

I agree with 99% of what you said.

The 1% is I don't believe we walked into this mess knowingly. We meaning the consumers. I think we were led here. Then, you have to think of WHY were we led here. Is there an Agenda, or were we led here because "they" also didn't know what they were doing?

Looking at all that Greenspan and Clinton did (then Bush) to encourage the consumers to speculate and invest and spend.

So, to me, this period is not Deflationary, it's a conspiracy slash liquidation process.

If we take longer than 6 months to feel INFLATION, then you would be right....

If we feel the Commodities coming back up (regardless of the equity market) then you will know there will be worse to come!

But, at this point, I would rather invest in Commodities ANYWAY.


EDIT::: My main point being, I think consumers were scared into not spending. We didn't just went into a recession. Of course the beginning of it was the housing bubble, but the whole process was sped up by the Fed and Treasury and their "acting" on camera. And look where we are now just a couple weeks later!!!!

[edit on 26-10-2008 by Rizen]

[edit on 26-10-2008 by Rizen]

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 02:46 PM
To be honest... I was still investing in stocks until Wamu got illegally taken over by the FDIC and given to JPMorgan.

From the ratings agency destroying Wamu before they had any BIG problems to the "3 day run of Wamu"? I didn't see any runs, and Wamu is the biggest in California. I asked friends, emloyees, no one saw anything.

They are just splitting up the banks among the theives.

Citigroup failed as Wells had enough money to buy Wachovia LEGALLY. Citi tried to pick up Wachovia for free too.

I then turned to Commodities especially gold. Then when gold price dropped like a fly, I knew for sure that something is not right.

That right there just showed me that "they" didn't care if we were in a recession or not....

They were dead focused on making sure we believe that we were until we REALLY WERE.

Then, they can use their "solution".

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:03 PM

Originally posted by anachryon
Thanks to the bailout, banks can also receive Fed money by trading shares of their stock for cash. This was initially touted as a means for banks to get money for them to lend out to the general public, but very quickly it became obvious that the banks were hoarding the money or using it to buy other banks.
As long as the money sits there in the banks, it's not a huge deal. The instant it starts moving into the day to day economy - via loans, interest paid, hiring, building new bank branches, etc - though, the economy starts to inflate.

I guess the bankers are screwing up the economy still then!

Paulson’s Treasury: We Will Give You 17 Goats to Buy This Bank

Some objectors might call the federal government’s deep involvement in the banking sector paternalistic. If so, that would explain why the government is essentially handing out dowries to companies that take troubled banks off their hands.

The U.S. Treasury has reached into its bailout program, TARP, to gift PNC Financial Services Group with $7.7 billion that helped the Pittsburgh bank buy National City for $5.58 billion. PNC even won a 7% discount to Thursday’s stock price in the bidding for NatCity, which had struggled all year to find a buyer.
And J.P. Morgan Chase hasn’t ruled out using its $25 billion government windfall for acquisitions, either. On J.P. Morgan’s recent third-quarter earnings call, CEO Jamie Dimon went to pains to explain that the bank didn’t need the money, and he said he would put it to the uses that would most help shareholders. Of course, Dimon already gave at the office with the government-engineered acquisitions of both Bear Stearns and Washington Mutual.

So, if this is going to hurt the economy more, why hasn't Congress or Paulson
put a stipulation in "the bailout" that says that this money is to be kept in their banking systems, not to be used to "buy" other banks or any other companies?

[edit on 10/26/2008 by Keyhole]

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:14 PM
It looks pretty much like the last great depression to me, except maybe the Fed is a little smarter, having the last depression failure to learn from. Although, it seems that they have only succeeded in making things worse. The rich lost a great deal of their power and wealth in the last great depression, and I think the same will happen this time. They don't all become poor, but the gap narrows considerably.

I think the real difference this time is that we are entering the information age, and that this new age will not be one of the super rich and the super poor, which clearly marked the industrial age. Wast amounts of capital aren't needed to mass produce these days, as they were decades ago.

I see this as the dying throes of the industrial age.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Keyhole
So, if this is going to hurt the economy more, why hasn't Congress or Paulson (
) put a stipulation in "the bailout" that says that this money is to be kept in their banking systems, not to be used to "buy" other banks or any other companies?

Good question, and I have an answer for you!


Neel Kashkari, head of the Treasury's financial stability program, told Dodd's committee this past week that there are few strings attached to the capital-infusion program because too many rules would discourage financial institutions from participating.

Congress passed this bill and it gives Paulson and his flunkies pretty much unbridled power.
If Paulson doesn't want to impose restrictions on how the banks use the money, he's under no obligation to do so. He can do what he wants with the bailout bucks. Our elected officials gave him free reign.

GET MAD, people! Even those who voted in favor of the bailout now realize how bad this is.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:43 PM
reply to post by Hot_Wings

hot wings you are right on the money. Russia threw out the NWO elite after they looted and destroyed the US economy in the 90's.
The elite wants to de-industrialize the west shifting all manufacturing to Asia. Ultimately they want a zero growth economy which requires a major eugenics program.
I used to believe that a one world government was not possible because America would never permit it. Globalization = one world government. Now we are witnessing the final phase of globalization as we have two globalists running for president while Americans are still focused on a left/ right paradigm. The elite will continue to further their agenda by creating crises and then proposing solutions. They created 9/11 and now they are creating the economic version of the same. All western politicans have been bought and promised a piece of the NWO plan.
Never before in this generation have we faced an economic crisis going into an election yet the politicans tell us that a recession has not even started. Says something about gov't stats doesn't it. Expect unemployment to rise to unprecedented levels in coming months. Americans will soon see the battle hardened batallion returning from Iraq patrolling US neighborhoods along with sociopathic Blackwater mercenaries. This folks is the endgame and there will be no compassion for your families. Remember these are the same folks that brought you 9-11.
The NWO's answer to coming chaos will be military law which after a few months of "Mad Max" in American suburbia, Ameicans will be happy to accept.
Expect this to be followed shortly or coincidently by the North American Union. In order to achieve a massive population reduction, a combination of nuclear war and biological agents will be unleashed on a floride saturated public.
Sleepy Americans need not get too discouraged. Television has proven to be an effective tool in indoctrinating a dumbed down population to the NWO program. Cable will be provided free by the NWO to the survivors and there will be plenty of sports channels and psychotropic drugs for the survivors.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:43 PM
There is nothing to fear.

The amount of money in the economy is related to the size of the population. You see a steady and even increase in that money.

The other charts reflect the amount of money used by the Fed Res to offset the losses of the major financial corporations in the US in order to stabilize the economy. For a great amount of this money, the Fed expects to make a profit over time, which is a profit for you, indirectly. Who knows, maybe it will assist the Social Security program.

Next, the price of oil. When we discovered and mined the oil in the Middle East, part of our contract with them was that they must always sell the crude based on the dollar.

Lastly, look at the stable indicators. The value of gold is relatively stable always. It is the dollar that moves. Lately, the dollar has devalued, sending the price of gold up, and the same for the price of oil. Notice now that the price of gold is going down, and so is the price of oil. While there are some factors involved with the price of oil, like supply and demand, in the larger sense the price is related to speculation and the value of the dollar.

Here is what the future brings over the next three months:

1. The stock market will capitulate in the last week of October, and stocks will rise.
2. Most retail establishments will survive the winter and do well in Christmas, and will be able to pay their suppliers.
3. The president to be elected will be Obama, and he will change policy relating to the way the Fed Res works with the financial institutions.
4. The value of the dollar will increase steadily, sending the price of gold down to $485 by Jan 2009.
5. The price of oil will increase slightly due to the reduction of oil production, then OPEC will notice that the economy is still reducing it's reliablilty on foreign oil, and then the price of oil will reduce to fluctuate between $30 and $40 per barrel.
6. The Dow Jones Industrial Average will move downward to 4300 by January, and then reverse in mid to late January and begin a "steady" increase back to 8500 by March and then to 10500 by June 2009.
7. The economy will not provide a safe haven for most foreclosures, and foreclosures will continue into early 2010.
8. The banks will increase mortgage rates, while at the same time increasing requirements for borrowers. Most of the younger generation of homeowners will require cosigners or financial deposits provided from relatives, small locally formed groups, or their office of employment.
9. The US dollar will outperform foreign currencies on average during that period, and the US economy will recover faster than foreign economies. They will lag the US recovery by 3-6 months.
10. The best news: pressure to perform will move the industries of America to be more innovative. Plan to see better products rushed into production for conservation of energy, increasing the employment of Americans.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 03:54 PM
reply to post by Jim Scott

Balsy prediction. I hope you are right about the recovery. I try to be an optimist but man it is easy to be a pessimist.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:01 PM
reply to post by bruxfain

reply to post by bruxfain

In my opinion, I would take all that cash and buy things that will help you provide food water and shelter for your family and friends while it still has value.

My wife and I built an earthship near Taos, New Mexico. This off the grid home provides all of our water, hot water, electricity, comfortable temps and humidity and on-site sewage treatment. All it needs is some sunshine and some rain landing on its roof. We are tickled pink with how well it works! The only problem is we do NOT have a way to grow a nutritionally complete diet on our property. We only get about 12 inches of rain annually and it comes towards the end of the growing season. However we do get ALL of our drinking water and wash water from the rain that lands on the roof!!!

As long as we had a lifetime supply of food, the global monetary economy as we know it could go kiss off!

Who needs a global monetary economy? Who needs money when you can be your own water company, your own power company, your own food production system?

It's the people, stupid. Start being good neighbors. If you do not want to grow your own food, empower a neighbor to do it for you. Use that cash to "grow" a mini-farmer. Use that money to buy him a copy of "How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons (see: ). It describes a "no kidding", "for real" sustainable mini-farming method that enhances the soil AND produces much more food per unit land area than conventional "violent warfare farming". All you need, pretty much, is a straight edge shovel and a garden fork.

If you are fortunate enough to live in an area that has at least two inches of precip per month during the growing season, you can start growing food right away AND enhance the beauty and aliveness of the soil. If not, use that cash to buy water storage tanks for domestic water and pond liners for crop water storage. If you are in a very dry location, get that pond covered so it doesn't evaporate away leaving you a pile of salt. We have 4,800 gallons of domestic water storage at our place and, so far, we have not run out. It is amazing how much water is available from your roof.

Let food be the new currency. Let the dollar collapse but don't get sucked in by the "global monetary economy". It is the work of Satan. Learn to work together with your neighbors to create your own food water and shelter and health. Let medicinal herbs. Grow your own vitamin C. Don't get vaccinated! God only knows what is in that crap. Vitamin C taken in units of grams NOT milligrams per day will provide good health. Give up health insurance and anything that requires "money". If Blue cross won't take eggs or broccoli for payment, maybe you shouldn't deal with them. "Health care" is the work of the devil anyway. If you ate whole foods that you or your neighbor grew and took vitamin C, you don't need a doctor. Use that cash to learn first aid for inevitable injuries or have a neighbor train to be a local medic.

What if the water stopped? What if the power went out? what if the gas line stopped? What if the sewer stopped? Find sustainable solutions and use your cash to implement that while you still can.

And don't be afraid of death. Birth inevitably leads to death. Learn how to die with peace and grace. That's a whole discussion in itself. See:


posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:08 PM
Sorry if someone already mentioned this (I didn't read all the posts), but here is one big factor that has driven up the dollar: With all the financial panic of late, ALMOST EVERYONE went into treasuries. Now, in other countries, when people bailed out of their investments and wanted the safety of US treasuries, they had to convert their currencies into dollars in order to do so. Well, this huge panic flight into treasuries in this manner has superficially and temporarily driven up the dollar.

However, this was a short term safety measure (as the returns were/are almost zilch), and when the panic settles down, foreigners will dump these worthless treasuries and probably invest into their own higher yielding bonds etc. BTW, one reason that many did not turn to gold in this panic was because it happened so quickly it was easier to go right into treasuries (and gold suffered because of this temporary resulting dollar surge).

Anyhow, this is one piece of the puzzle as I understand it. If I am slightly off base here, I will stand corrected, but I think this factor along with what has been pointed out in the OP will cause a drop in the dollar soon. I disagree with the previous post in this regard.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by whatsup]

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Jim Scott
There is nothing to fear.

Y'know...forgive me, but I'm going to listen to the Harvard educated economist when it comes to whether I should be concerned or not.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:16 PM
reply to post by Hot_Wings

Good Post. Yes Americans are a target. We totally believe in our freedom and our rights. We are the biggest threat to their plans, but unfortunately we won't come together to stop them. Things aren't looking good. Never would I have thought the one world government would happen so fast.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by stander

Also, Russia does not sell in Euro's or Dollars, but in the Ruble (I hope I spelled that right) as a method of increasing their own currency's strength.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:44 PM
reply to post by mybigunit

Good luck even finding any physical precious metals to purchase. There are companies like Kidco that still have a listing for the current value, but they aren't selling. Nothing that I saw (just looking, not wanting to buy any more myself) other than overpriced on EBay, etc.

I have a buddy in Florida that has acquired a modest amount of gold and silver, and he's been unable to find any more. Food might just be the new gold. Not fearmongering here, just hoping that folks are stocked up for a few months at least. Worst case is you save some money on future food costs, assuming you buy what you like to eat.

I don't think it's merely the dollar that is undergoing hyperinflation. Anyone besides me checking out the world markets? *poof*

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:51 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Agree. We've done much the same. We will be eating and drinking and living, regardless of the market strength or weakness. Cooking oil might well become more important than people give it credit for as well. Open-pollinated seeds, and an understanding of how to preserve seeds from your crops toward future crops. Frankly, I don't see how a person can go wrong with this outlook.

I have friends in city centers in the U.S. that are using nearly every available exterior space to grow container gardens. A strong producer is grape tomatoes, which, if a person gets a handle on improving pollination (flicking or vibrating the flowers), the output per square food is pretty incredible. We haven't bought tomatoes in more than a year, and in fact trade them as well as other fruits of our labors for fish and shellfish. I think most of us are going to have to shift our thinking a bit, but we can make it, barring asteroid strike or foolish human disaster.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:55 PM
reply to post by mybigunit

Yes, balsy analysis, and they may well be right, but no harm in hoping for the best and preparing for less-than-savory. I've spent $150.00 U.S. for open-pollinated seeds -- everything from old-faithful corn to Stevia (sweetener) and coffee. Do I think it'll get that bad that I can't buy or afford coffee? No. But for the $2.50 spent on those seeds, it's a safe hedge and a low-cost bet.

Every bit of solar stuff we've purchased will pay for itself in two years or less.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 05:08 PM
reply to post by argentus has gold and silver but it comes at a premium.

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