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posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:31 AM
reply to post by kosmicjack

I thought the biflation would also drive down cost of food, but I suppose that's considered a commodity.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:37 AM
reply to post by MOFreemason

Really, food is the most valuable commodity, especially in a crisis. Sure gold and silver are popular, but when the SHTF and you need to survive - you can't eat precious metals.

And what would you be willing to do or sacrifice in order to provide food for your family? Probably a lot. Control the food, control the people.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Because of this very high risk premium banks do not lend money to each other (i.e too expensive), the rising TED spread comes from lack of trust, Banks can not tell which bank will default next, like Bear Sterns for example. After this period of stress is over, the financial system will go back to normal sans some large banks / investment banks and the FED will get its money back i.e the provided 'short term liquidity' will be withdrawn from the financial system.

I've been following LIBOR and TED for awhile now indeed. They're starting to creep in a little, aren't they? Why would the numbers stay out when banks aren't borrowing from other banks? They can just borrow from the government.

Pray tell - how will the Fed "get its money back?" Will they sell the stocks back to the (surviving) banks? Will they forcibly yank it out of the bank's coffers? What about the money already spent?

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:40 AM
reply to post by worried08

since the united states currency is not backed up by GOLD it does not matter how much it O"s, and it does not matter how much paper money it prints and puts in circleation around the world. all of its bills can be payed by printing more paper money its as simple as that.......... agree or disagree

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:40 AM
reply to post by anachryon

I love how the government "assures" us "taxpayers will get their money back."

I thought the Paulson bill allows the Treasury to spend up to $700 billion "at any one time." This allows a basic line-of-credit and no deadline. In essence, the Treasury will continue purchasing assets of financial institutions across America.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:43 AM
reply to post by anachryon

OK, so I am correct in thinking the money needs to enter public hands. What if perhaps the amount of money created by banks in the form of Mortgages is what is being replaced. If the money was created from nothing, paid to the people owning the home per the people buying the home, then the money that never existed was created and flooded into the markets. The trillions pumped into bank's books then filled the void of the money that was already created, but not actually there? To ensure the ratio to reserves and fictional money is kept satisfied? If this is the case then we have already seen this money enter the public system, in the way of inflated house prices.. Plenty of people made a huge amount of money selling their house highly over valued..

Why would Japan, for example, want to inflate its Yen if they know a devalued U$ would increase their general power in the world?

For every $1 an imported Japanese item increases, it's $2 they won't make. Toyota put out figures that to compete in the American market they had to take hits themselves, keeping the price of an automobile a level price in Dollars. But the price in Yen to produce it skyrockets.. For every 5% the Japanese currency increases, Toyota takes a few billion as a write off of profits that where erased trying to keep the prices level.

Other wise imported cars (like my scion I bought this year) would of had to follow the % trend in ratio to the currency it is purchased in.

The Yen has gone above the Dollar +20% .. meaning the price of a Toyota, Samsung TV, Nintendo Wii .. should all go up 20%. My Scion from 08 to 09 is only going up $500 in price.. meaning Toyota is taking the financial hit to produce it.

Retailers this year are very worried they can no longer cover hits themselves from imported Japanese goods, like Tv's, Consols etc. All those DVD player sales, Tv sales.. won't be happening.

So I see all these countries around the World flooding money into their markets.. in a seemingly coordinated fashion .. and I cannot help to wonder if it is to attempt to keep the US Dollar propped up.

Also, if you can decrease the value of the Euro, it may keep Gulf States from switching their Dollar Peg..

Instead of invading more countries (Saddam switched from the Dollar before we invaded, and now all Iraqi oil is sold in Dollars) we commit economic warfare through leveling the world currencies?

If OPEC states had any back bone.. they would create their own currency .. and it would replace the US Dollar over night..

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 10:55 AM
What's going on right now is NOT deflation.

Please guys, go to a dictionary or a financial terms and look up the definition of deflation.

We have more money than ever in circulation, which is the exact opposite of what happened in the depression. During the depression, the money supply was too tight when money was needed. This time around, we already have too much money in circulation, and printing more is not the solution.

Please don't confuse the Depression with what's going on now.

Now, commodities, stocks, everything is going down in price because everyone is liquidating. Hedge funds have to deleverage, short sellers will short, margin calls force others to sell.

Look at the paper price of gold and the physical price of gold. Then you will see what's going on..... If things were NORMAL....Gold physical demand should reflect the paper gold price.

But it doesn't...and by far.

I assume same thing with Oil, etc... everything is going down in price temporarily.

I think when things start to settle down, prices will reflect physical demand again....not paper demand.......and prices wil skyrocket again as INFLATION sets in.....

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:39 AM
reply to post by Rockpuck

Excellent points. And to make it more real, consider this example:

Remember all the trouble people had last Christmas, trying to find a Nintendo Wii? The excuse given was "they just aren't manufacturing enough".

Well, that wasn't quite true. The initial price point had been set, the product had been advertised worldwide, manufacturing had begun, but when it came time decide where to put those units into market, the current Euro-to-Dollar ratio was such that it was simply much more profitable to send them to Europe, rather then the United States.

US supply of Wii's was reduced to the absolute minimum necessary to maintain the 'hype', and keep people from giving up on the product all together. They were fairly easily available in Europe, no shortages.

Brings it home a little, huh? Sure, talk about 'libors' and 'ftses' all ya want, but when international economics messes with our video games?? Then, it's important!

Edit: amusing accidental emoticon

[edit on 26-10-2008 by Ian McLean]

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:40 AM
I am becoming really scared about losing my meager fortune and I've come to trust in the news and advice I get from ATS.

Recently I've cashed out on all my investments and am holding 100% cash. The charts and news I've seen and read on this thread have convinced me that holding dollars is not the best way to go. My question is this: What can I do to make certain that if the dollar does collapse that I can escape with minimal damage?

I was thinking about carrying a position where I can trade my dollars for gold at a future date, hopefully, at the very moment the dollar tanks. Does anyone have a time frame for the dollar collapse?

Because the dollar has been pretty strong as of late and gold prices have been weakening, I don't want to do the trade just yet, but if the trend reverses itself, I don't want to be left with a pile of useless currency mocking me.

I was thinking about buying some dollar puts and some gold calls, but I need to determine as accurate a carrying period as possible as I don't want the position to expire too soon. I want to book an order first thing in the morning, so if I could get some advice, any advice and wild speculation is welcome, I would be somewhat grateful.

Thank you in advance.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:54 AM
most of the 2 trillion $$ used in bailouts, bank recapitalization, rescue programs has not yet filtered out into the economy...

so there is no immediate (3-5 year horizon) on the Dollar collapsing.

the Dollar strength (temporary) is because the dollar is the historical reserve currency... and as such is used as the medium of currency exchange between nations...
there is a global fear of recession, which makes the need for trade payments in Dollars exclusively, thus the presenr requirement of many nations 'buying-trading' their currency for USDollars...and gives the false impression that only the USD has any value in the worldwide marketplace.

in the 3-5 year window... the estimated 5 trillion dollars which is flooding the globe...will indeed lose much of its worth/value...probably led by the Gulf Cooperation States & their gold backed 'Dinar' beginning in 2010...
the Shanghi cooperative which includes Russia, (another energy resource nation which guarantees the EU energy needs to at least 2012) will join with the Gulf States asset backed gold Dinar currency as the replacement to the US Dollar as the global reserve currency.

but, think the slogan 'not over my dead body' as the US Fed/Treasury becomes the 'leadership' of the USA, and the Execuitive branch is reduced to a ceremonial function of the 'democratic' government....
the Fed/Treasury, will back up the status of the Dollar as the global reserve currency with the implied threat of nuclear first strike to any nation which engages in 'Strategic Economic Terrorism' against the Dollar & USA economic/diplomatic hegemony

bottom line...there's a way to go, & creative ways to keep from getting crushed & squeezed into serfdom

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:57 AM
reply to post by mybigunit

Even if they manage to devalue gold and silver,they are at least tangable assets that will hold real worth.Whereas the paper dollar actually holds no value even now.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:57 AM
Bruxfan my suggestion would be to keep 20% of your holdings in cash, put 40% into food storage, and the other 40% into gold and silver holdings. Up until inflation hits heavy you're going to need cash, and when it hits you're going to need food and another form of currency.

Just my opinion.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Rockpuck
If OPEC states had any back bone.. they would create their own currency .. and it would replace the US Dollar over night..

That's not a matter of having guts. Just find me a quote made by a high-ranking OPEC officer who bemoaned the dollar as an unsuitable currency to handle the oil trade.

Saddam's scheming doesn't count, because he reverted to silly principles: If you hurt petrodollars by thinking euros as a substitute, you weaken the ability of USA to borrow and buy more military stuff to keep kicking Saddam's ass. But the ability to borrow is a lifeline that keeps indebted USA going -- there is no point of return any more. By mentioning "petroeuros," Saddam signed his own death sentence. Haha . . . ain't that funny?

Rockpuck, find the quotes. I didn't look, but that would be something special if there were some unhappiness with the petrodollars among the oil exporting countries. We are talking WW3 or the end of era for the USA.

Rockpuck, do some clicking. Let's check this out, dude.

Btw, Russia started to drill for oil a lot and starts supplying European countries in earnest. Russia would be the first one to sell oil for euros if Wall St keeps misbehaving. But you can't walk in there the way George Bush walked into Iraq . . .

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:17 PM
reply to post by stander

With all the Eastern Europeans switching to Euro's, its only a matter of time before the Euro makes a significant impact in Russia and resorts in policy change.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:20 PM

Originally posted by anachryon
This money has to come from somewhere. It's not sitting in a vault or in Ft. Knox or somewhere; it's simply "printed" up. These charts show the incredible expansion of the amount of money created (the monetary base) and how it's sitting on the books of various banks (excess and non-borrowed reserves).

As long as the money sits there in the banks, it's not a huge deal. The instant it starts moving into the day to day economy - via loans, interest paid, hiring, building new bank branches, etc - though, the economy starts to inflate.

Now they are talking about another "stimulus package" for us to help people through this hard time.

From what I'm understanding is that this stimulus package may do more harm than good?

And this would be due to the fact that the government is just going to print this money up, which will cause this hyper-inflation due to the fact that this newly printed money wil be "moving into the day to day economy"?

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 12:34 PM
reply to post by jimmyx

the majority of the wealthy are ALREADY out of the market sitting on cash.


This would be why people like Ted Turner purchased thousands of acres of land in NM (not too far from where I live), also I believe in CO & Montana. Correct me if I am wrong...Bush apparently purchased a lot of land in Venezuela?

Turner started buying the land here in NM a few years ago. What did he know before most anyone else? As a matter of fact; many of the very wealthy incl. CEO's of major businesses like; Campbell Soup, Gucci, etc. have purchased homes and acreage here. And many have set up compounds.

Thanks to everyone for explaining a difficult subject!

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Keyhole
Now they are talking about another "stimulus package" for us to help people through this hard time.

From what I'm understanding is that this stimulus package may do more harm than good?

And this would be due to the fact that the government is just going to print this money up, which will cause this hyper-inflation due to the fact that this newly printed money wil be "moving into the day to day economy"?

An earlier post on this page claims we're not experiencing deflation because there's more money entering the system, so to speak. By the definition of deflation, it is a reduction in monetary supply or credit; a reduction in gov't, personal or investment spending. As is becoming obvious, we are dealing with a tremendous reduction in credit and a decrease in personal spending, both of which are deflationary.

In the short term the proposed bailout may have an "okay" effect in that it could counter some of the the stagflation/deflation effects we're currently experiencing.

In order to get the spending to happen again, Congress wants to push through a $150B "stimulus." This, as mentioned, may be a benefit in the short term. This assumes that the money will be spent on goods rather than put in savings or used to pay down debt.

In the long term, though, it's inflationary. We won't be looking at effects within a month; it takes time for everything to work through the system, so to speak.

These measures have the possibility of causing hyperinflation. Note that it remains a possibility; I won't say it's certain nor should anyone else. These trillions of dollars are inflationary, and they're potentially hyperinflationary, but no one's going to call it a definite at this point. The government can pull money out of the system by raising interest rates (a lot), raising taxes, etc. That's probably what will come down the line at some point.

The way I see things, it's gonna go like this:
We're entering a deflationary period and will remain stagnant or deflationary as long as people aren't spending (due to tight credit and banks hoarding $).
When the banks start monetizing the money they're receiving, via loans or spending or whatever, we'll start to see inflation.
As more and more money enters "the wild," inflation will start to increase a whole lot.
As the inflation increases, the gov't is likely to hike interest rates and raise taxes.
If they don't try and stem the inflation, or if they don't do it aggressively enough, then we're ripe for hyperinflation.

Timeframe? I don't know. We could deflate or stagnate for years. We could move to inflation in six months. We could spiral out of control and hyperinflate by '10. What does seem certain is that period of deflation/stagnation/stag-deflation followed by a period of high inflation...what happens after that is reliant on what steps the gov't takes.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:28 PM
For those of us who are more visually inclined learners this
vid from Zeitgeist - addendum helped me to put what is happening
into perspective. I would also recommend Naomi Kleins book
The Shock Doctrine as the most comprehensive explanation of
how our world has been shaped ecomomically and politically
in the last 50 years. Best non-fiction book I've ever read.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:43 PM
I just found this thread, and I have not read it all, because it is the same stupid bs over and over.
These are the facts; the banks had counterfeited and loaned out trillions of dollars. In the 70s, they got way out of hand and we had massive inflation, blamed wrongly on the govt. printing presses. They printed a small fraction of that counterfeit money. This money just recently went back to where it came from; imagination. We have adjusted for a long time to the bogus inflation, and now we would have massive deflation from the counterfeit money disappearing. Deflation is considered bad, SO the govt. comes out and creates $700 billiion to counter it. Problem is, that the amount that vanished is a lot more than that, and it will have very little effect, especially when the derivatives scam finally collapses, and especially when people holding imaginary stocks, obtained from 'naked short' sellers, find out that they have been robbed, with the 'regulators' as accomplices. I am sick and tired, I have had it, with these evil 'financiers' spitting out all these bogus explanations that noone can understand. That is deliberate, to confuse and rob people. Well, it ain't working with me. They are criminals, and I have no reluctance to call them on it. Unfortunately, we have no political leaders willing, or with the intgegrity, to call these scum to accountability. I suspect, this I do not know for fact and admit it gladly, that these scum are working under the direction of their master, Lucifer, that really smart and charismatic alien leader. He apparently is working thru the Illuminuty, and their cover group, Novau Tuch. I deliberatlely misspell, to conceal. Tho if I were them, I would closely monitor everything on this website.
Anyways, back to money. Right now, cash is king, and the government is not trying to correct the problem, but merely to prolong and enable the scam. I don't know about y'all, but I did not vote for anyone to help plunder me and every other voter. This is part of the reason I call them Communist Democrats, and Socialist Republicans. The Socialists are absolutely wrong in calling Baraq Hussein Muhommed Obama a Socialist. He is not, and never has been that conservative. His actions and votes are those of a communist, who hates America. This is like voting for a Nazi during WWII. Germany would have supported a Nazi, just like our enemies now support Baraq.
I watched a piece on computerized vote tampering in the last election, in Ohio. Incredible evidence of Socialist Republican tampering, but I also know that the polls are heavily tampered with by the Communists, and that is proven to influence voting. So I am not sure I mind the tampering, when their enemies are also fighting very dirty, and our votes mean nothing anyways. Who cares, if both sides work for the same elite? They both do the same things, with a few irrelevant and unimportant issues brought to the forefront, to distract from what they are actuallly doing. Like the Palin wardrobe, or Baraq Hussein's evil 'bird' friends. That won't hurt them in their march to dismantle the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That will have no effect on the NWO.

posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:44 PM
So it's going to be 1817 again.

Federal reserves will be destroyed and a new one will come up.

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