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posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:08 PM
The BAILOUT is the equivalent of having the US Governement backing payments made to a chain letter, where everyone sends $10 to the person at the top of the list and then sells the list for $10 to 10 other people.

The banks are not hoarding the cash.

It is a chain reaction.

The bailout cash goes to prop up the banks which, thanks to the derivatives market, are like a bath with no plug.

The banks cash then goes to the derivatives.

The cash to the immediate holders then goes through a complex web of hundreds of holders hands.

It logically then comes out the other side into

1...the trade deficit, ie banks and companies from other countries who are ultimately owed the cash.
2...offshore funds such as in the Cayman Isles.
3. ..Some lucky individuals
4. ..Foreign nations like China.
5. ..Through coprorations and into dividends of foreign companies.

These have traditionally kept using the huge inflow to buy new US bonds and T-Bills, keeping up the value of the Dollar. This they will now stop doing as no-one wants T-Bills and Bonds in a country who can never now pay.

The problem is just constantly going to the bank manager and asking for an ever bigger overdraft to pay the interest on the existing overdraft. What happens when he says no.

This has now in effect happened. The collapse of shares has triggered the derviatives to mulitply the losses and self-catalysed the losses on the stock exchange. Had the bailout not occured, or had they only secured the first $100,000, a bunch of banks would have collapsed and the problem would have been quarterised. But the bailout has, particularly through AIG support has hardwired the Governement into the equation. It is like throwing a big anchor off a boat by the Marianas Trech and then going to tie the other end of the rope around your ankle.

The self-accelerating collapse through derivatives will pull both all the rest of the US industry down with it as the US net worth sprays out like an oil tanker with has side ripped open. China and the holders of US Bonds and dollars will have a choice of selling their fiinancial souls to prop at the US for a few weeks at the expese of their own nation's future or....
a. doing nothing and have what dollars they have collapse with the dollar or
b. dump it all on the market in a nightmare fire sale.

Should they dump all their, rapidly becoming, funny money on the market, as is likely, all the past deficits for the last 4 decades or so will slam the US economy within a space of a couple of months. As the collapse occurs, unable to shift their bonds, the Chinese etc will take cash and spend like/as it is going out of style on ANYTHING causeing prices to skyrocket as companies, unalbe to pay their debt fold across the US and the Governement is forced to crank out huge volumes of dollar bills to pay its own bailout debts, self-accelerating the decline.

By March, a BANK OF MONOPOLY $1 BILL will cost several hundred dollars, most of the country will be unemployed, no-one will loan the US a nickel, gas will be several thousand dollars a litre and the average wage will be counted in dime not dollars.

posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:21 PM
We knew this was coming - as enlightening as this topic is - its not hard to read from the daily headlines, "We're practically Screwed." Lol. Not to be to much of a party crasher -... this is very interesting though, I didn't realize that the federal reserve was using OTHER reserves.
Just goes to show ya how much our economy is fated to fail. Which is ironic - for one nobody really pointed this out before (or from what I've seen) and for two - with all of the famous, and powerful seat holding representatives giving off crude remarks about how something big and bad is going to happen, it's funny that this escaped national attention. Henceforth: The Media. Why this didn't make news... well probably public fear. But still, I wouldn't be surprised if this startling tad bit of information has a greater part in the coming doomdom that were all about to face... after all 2 + 2 = 4.

But what happens when 4 equals 2?


posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:41 PM

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by anachryon

It does make me sick. What scares me even more is if I go and buy all sorts of silver and gold which I am strongly considering and then the governments flood the market with it to get money killing the price of gold and silver. Im at a standstill Im not sure where the hell to put my money.

You cannot eat gold and silver, and you cannot eat paper.

I'd consider some long shelf life heirloom seeds, and some
long shelf life foods and store them in as dry and cold a place
as possible and put something in them to pull down the
moisture level.

A list of long shelf life foods can be found here:

The cheapest food can be had from the mills, thou not real
palatable as raw food.

50 lb. bags of rice are a good staple item, and a good supply of vitamins
is a good idea.

If the power goes down long term consider reading up on
root cellars and what stores best in them.

You might consider buying things that you are sure to need,
that are likely to go up in cost.

Find a friend or relative that is likely to lose their job, and merge
your living quarters to save money.

It really comes down to "wants" and "needs"

The needs list is very short:

1) Drinkable Water
2) Uncontaminated Food
3) Shelter thats effective when the power and natural gas is out.
4) Clothing
5) Means to work/sell/trade/barter to Acquire the above
6) Life continuing medications

The wants list gets pretty irrelevant once you realize we are
on the verge of another depression, and WW3 seems to be
rumbling somewhere in the near future as well.

There is a LOT more info out there, but this is the abbreviated list.

Good Luck to you all !

posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:53 PM

Originally posted by rtcctr
if i got this right then the Bailout actually hurt more than helped

if this is the case then the government is causing hyper inflation in the economy and could lead us into a depression

Yes and no.

$700 Billion is a lot of money to be sure.

But when this chicken lays its egg on us, we are well and truly screwed:

Nearly $700 Trillion ( with a 'T' ) in derivatives with about half
being on the unlisted and unregulated OTC that are a house of
cards that are about to tumble.

Alot of these are default swaps, where they take a bad debt
and list it as an asset to invest in just to get it off their books
via 'creative accounting'.

It reminds of the 700+ shell accounts in the cayman islands for Enron.

The crimes are the same, but just new names,
and thieves in suits do no time.

posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Comind
Now Treasury auctions having been going very well. All durations are down in yield due to high demand--but I'm not sure how much they've actually sold and whether it has been enough to offset all their programs (TARP being the latest).

Obviously, you want to get this analysis right because it has huge investing implications., no they're not doing very well.

The auction was "awful" because there were no participants, said Andrew Brenner, co-head of structured products and emerging markets at MF Global.

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 12:59 AM

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 01:39 AM
reply to post by worried08

Well this looks like the perfect opportunity for the illuminate to introduce the "Amero" One really big step closer to the New World Order. For that to happen we need a one world money system. So far they have collaborated the entire economy of Europe. Why not fuse the largest economy in the world with Canada and all countries in Central and South America? Perfect timing I was it all the way with the great "Bailout" Scam.

Does anyone else feel the need to do something about this? Honestly this is all BS and we need to grow some like our forefathers did. We need to take our country back from Banks and foreign countries immediately!

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 01:55 AM
Maybe I'm just twisted but a part of me wants the whole thing to come crashing down. Dollar collapse? Bring it on. Other countries currencies and economies collapse? Bring that on as well.

These occurrences which are starting to now unfold right before our eyes feel very natural to me. It seems like an unavoidable recoil / response to our ridiculous system (society) and way of life in general that is driven by disgustingly excessive greed and corruption.

I crave a clean slate and I think my craving will soon be satiated. Time to pay the piper people.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Jedimind]

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 04:04 AM
reply to post by mybigunit

There is a big difference between COMEX gold market values and PHYSICAL gold [and precious metal] holdings. If you are holding physical gold in your hand, believe me... if forecasts of imminent dollar collapse are right, it will have tripled in value by this time next year.
If, however, you are holding or invested in COMEX gold shares..which is what the Gov will try and dump into the market to stem losses..well you will be pretty much screwed by this time next year..irrespective of who holds the highest office.

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 07:16 AM
On November 27th, 2008, Pluto will enter Capricorn. The last time Pluto entered Capricorn was the build up to the American Revolution. At the begining of Capricorn sits the "sun sign" for the birth of the Federal Reserve, Dec 23rd, 1913. When Pluto hits that point this early winter, it will be the begining of the end of the dollar.
In the Book of Daniel, it is the young he goat from the west, Javan. According to that prophesy, we should be bombing Iran before the begining of December. Go read Daniel.

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 08:28 AM
reply to post by Jedimind

Be Careful what you wish for. A clean slate is a very pleasing thought..but what about what occurs to get there.Epic violence and wars,suburban vigilantes ready to slash throats for food.I don't know about you, but I have no desire to see my 4 yr old slowly starve to death before my eyes or worse.I think we are on a collision course we can't turn away from.I for one am afraid, and not afraid to say it. Talk about ignorance...this is not going to be as simple as the great depression, or just shacking up somewhere with your loved ones singing Kumbaya round the fire,or cowering in a bunker till it blows over.This is going to be the disintegration of life as we know it.Catastrophic.This is death riding hard into life,leaving destruction and desolation in its wake... survival will be tough.So be prepared to do the unthinkable and do things you never imagined doing to survive, because even the best prepared of us is not really all that prepared.Sometimes i wish i could go back to burying my head in the sand...

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 11:23 AM
reply to post by mybigunit

Your best bet is to liquidate everything you have, get out and stay out of debt and buy a home with acerage in the country. Be sure you have a GOOD water source. Grow your own food, farm animals. Bring or find as many like-minded people as you can. Best places in the USA are small, unincorporated county areas in the rural parts of...then you incorporate NEW towns. Learn to hunt & fish!

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 12:26 PM
This "educated fool" can't explain, because there is absolutely no truth to what he is saying.

He obviously doesn't understand economics. He equates borrowing with collapse, and he sees hyperinflation where there is none.

And sadly, all too many of the fools that read these threads will also see something where nothing is. Oh well, enjoy your misery, you just revel in whatever you believe to he horribly bad.

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 01:42 PM

Originally posted by anachryon
As long as the money sits there in the banks, it's not a huge deal. The instant it starts moving into the day to day economy - via loans, interest paid, hiring, building new bank branches, etc - though, the economy starts to inflate.

Inflation is what causes prices to go up due to the increase of the amount of money "in the wild." Think about what $100 could buy you 10 years ago and compare it to what $100 can buy you today; this is due to inflation. A dollar just ain't worth what it used to be, ya know??
When inflation gets out of control, it can become hyper-inflation. We're seeing this in Zimbabwe, where it costs like a billion dollars for a loaf of bread.

Well, this can't be good then!

So When Will Banks Give Loans?

It was Oct. 17, just four days after JPMorgan Chase’s chief executive, Jamie Dimon, agreed to take a $25 billion capital injection courtesy of the United States government, when a JPMorgan employee asked that question. It came toward the end of an employee-only conference call that had been largely devoted to meshing certain divisions of JPMorgan with its new acquisition, Washington Mutual.

Which, of course, it also got thanks to the federal government. Christmas came early at JPMorgan Chase.

The JPMorgan executive who was moderating the employee conference call didn’t hesitate to answer a question that was pretty politically sensitive given the events of the previous few weeks.

Given the way, that is, that Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had decided to use the first installment of the $700 billion bailout money to recapitalize banks instead of buying up their toxic securities, which he had then sold to Congress and the American people as the best and fastest way to get the banks to start making loans again, and help prevent this recession from getting much, much worse.

In point of fact, the dirty little secret of the banking industry is that it has no intention of using the money to make new loans. But this executive was the first insider who’s been indiscreet enough to say it within earshot of a journalist.

(He didn’t mean to, of course, but I obtained the call-in number and listened to a recording.)

“Twenty-five billion dollars is obviously going to help the folks who are struggling more than Chase,” he began. “What we do think it will help us do is perhaps be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling. And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as a backstop.”

There's a thread on this article here:

This just pisses me off sooo much!

They should just take all this money away from them!

[edit on 10/28/2008 by Keyhole]

[edit on 10/28/2008 by Keyhole]

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 09:45 PM
recently, last sunday i watched a movie that got awards at the Cannes film festival in 2007 now it has an addendum, i believe it explains how this mess happened, it also has some very sound ideas of how we can get out of this mess, it is called addendum, i think you all will see it for it is, as for the seeing, i leave that up to all of you. From my perspective we have been living through "terror terror terror, now it's "crisis crisis crisis", but what it is really all about is, "spin spin spin" the doktors are very busy creating "fear fear fear" !!! heralding the Amero next summer and the NWO.cheers people

posted on Oct, 28 2008 @ 11:53 PM
It used to be that the more of a product the market sold, the cheaper the product got, or the lower the price dropped. What they have been doing to us to jack up the price of everything so high was what they were calling: "Whatever the market will bear", which is just pc speak for "we can charge whatever the heck we want the more people that are buying" which meant the price went up. I have to wonder if instead of hyperinflation, what we may experience is 'deflation'. Because they have to get that product off the shelf and keep products moving, because if they don't, they die. They HAVE to keep the money moving around and the product flowing or in a metaphor, their expiration date runs out. So I think it's likely that prices may hit a 'rock' bottom. I don't pretend to know as much as Greenspan, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to look at the big picture and figure some things out. I guess we'll find out in time, won't we?

posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 01:45 AM
So the Skull and Bones/Illuminati Banks give out to much money to middle class America, then when they can't pay their mortgages they repo their homes. When the Bank, Insurance Company etc. starts to fail the Bones at the helm bails clear with a wad of cash and the Bones owned paper milling company makes a wad off the US Mint printing bills for the Bones owned Federal Reserve to give to the Bones owned firms to disseminate among the greater Bones families. Whats the problem, isn't this the way monarchies are supposed to function? The rich get richer and the poor pay taxes.

posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:09 AM
Here's my question: what is stopping us from going back to the gold standard? If the Federal Reserve is running out of reserves, wouldn't it make sense to go back to the gold standard in order to have something "in reserve" to back up all that currency? If I'm understanding this correctly, we have gold in Fort Knox, but it's not backing up anything. So why is it there? Is it because the Federal Reserve so completely owns us that we're unable to find the backbone to back up our currency with something solid and tangible?

...there have been 3 kinds of people in
the world; the High, the Middle, and the
Low...the essential structure of society has
never altered...The aims of these 3 groups
are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the
High is to remain where they are. The aim
of the Middle is to change places with the
High. The aim of the Low, when they have
an aim - for...they are too much crushed by
drudgery to be more...conscious of anything
outside their daily lives - is to abolish all
distinctions and create a society in which
all...shall be equal. - George Orwell, 1984

posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by mybigunit

Your best bet is to liquidate everything you have, get out and stay out of debt and buy a home with acerage in the country. Be sure you have a GOOD water source. Grow your own food, farm animals. Bring or find as many like-minded people as you can. Best places in the USA are small, unincorporated county areas in the rural parts of...then you incorporate NEW towns. Learn to hunt & fish!

Ok, so basically, become Amish?

posted on Oct, 29 2008 @ 09:44 AM

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