Natural Selection and the Genetic Basis for Homosexuality

reply to post by scorand


No problem ..I know sometimes I have a hard time with explaining what I am thinking lol ...I am supposedly bipolar (at least according to the shrinks) which I do not take Meds for because I think it is an excuse made for people who do not try hard enough to control themselves (which I am working on hard )


I know this is OFF TOPIC ..But ...
Dave ...it pretty much says that the things that are made (in the here and now) show the Glory of God and the fact that he does exist .and could be found out if you were seeking the answers .....
If Scientists would lay off trying to play God by trying to change the things that God already made ...and work more on how they were made .....you would see that there is indeed a GOD and that only he could have created all of this ..

while i believe in god i dont believe in the church so much.. and yes i am a gay man.. the church has and admits to editing and changing the scriptures and may even be guilty of writing books for the bible. to suit their own agenda.. i just try to have faith that the truth will out..lol.. the case i make is the fact that the church is broken up into many denominations, and the fact that there is proof that the bible has been mistranslated and misinterpited.. since ancient greece and even before going possibly as far back as the time of christ.. and yes i believe that christ existed..and yes i believe he was crucified.. but i also believe that we are still dealing with the same religous and political hierarchy that put him on the cross..at the very least the same mentality.. the scriptures u mention are also under scrutiny for not neccisarily meaning whats implied,

reply to post by scorand



So lets just assume that these verses were not changed or mistranslated .
(we cannot toss the baby out with the bathwater now can we ?)
...I also know that many people including Christians love to pick the ones they agree with and discard the scriptures they dont agree with ...and I am a KJV reader only because of the fact that ALL of the NEW versions have done just that ...added to it and taken a bunch out .......

In your opinion ...what do you interpret it to be saying ?

PS lets leave Church out of this ..I do not go to Church either and would agree with 99 % of what yall say about it ....




[edit on 22-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


The KJV is not the first version of the bible, you know. There was more stuff added and taken out before the KJV was written than afterwards.

But let's not get into that.

reply to post by Simplynoone


ahh i see, there is a differance between between spirtitual love and physical love.. they can both be expressed phsically and emotionally. no it doesnt have to be sexually.. however with the one you are partnered with, physical and sexual expression of that love i see nothing wrong with..its part of being a physical and caring loving being..

reply to post by Simplynoone


I am not trying to shut you out! I'm trying to help you understand the fact that gay people and straight people are identical in every aspect apart from the gender they are attracted to. Just as you like guys, gay women like other women. So when you ask a gay person what draws them to the same sex, you might as well ask yourself why you are attracted to people of the opposite sex - the answer is exactly the same.

Please don't think I'm trying to attack you or call you hate-filled or anything - that couldn't be further from the truth. I can see a person asking to be taught, and all I'm trying to do is give you the benefit of my life lessons, that's all. These are my opinions, and I thought you'd appreciate hearing them.

and u'r right.. lets leave the church outta this

reply to post by dave420


and i for one am in complete agreement with u

Even the most unlikely things are natural, if they are caused by nature. 'Natural' does not mean, and has never meant, 'that which is common'.

I just wanted to clear that up.

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. A hole-in-one is as natural as a 15-shot bunker-and-rough tour.

Yeah, I know... I probably should have worded it better. What I mean't was most people would see it as unnatural because it isn't the norm, it isn't what they are used to. But in nature it is completely natural.

THIS QUESTION IS STRICTLY For the Homosexuals who BELIEVE IN GOD and the BIBLE >
I would really like to know how some of you who say they are Christian and believe in the bible ...explain these verses ? I am only posting this to see what you believe these verses are talking about in YOUR OPINION and how you interpret it .....I am also posting the whole thing so you can see it in context ..

I've seen gay christians, and I honestly do not know how they can be christians... "gay christian" it's almost like an oxy-moron. lol

reply to post by AlexG141989


The thought of gay Christians does seem a bit weird, what with all the press some Christians have got regarding their thoughts on homosexuality, but then those folks aren't really Christian. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality once, and instead preached love for everyone, something anyone can get behind. Saying true Christianity affects how you think about homosexuality is like saying McDonald's affects how you think about interstellar travel. The two don't even touch

Damn now I'm hungry.

Thanks Dave ...I appreciate you at least trying to understand me ..and thanks for the input ..


So lets just assume that some of the bible was mistranslated ..and maybe the word homosexuals is not even in there anyway (which it is not ) ..and maybe even lets assume that the verses I posted were mistranslated too .
But what about just one word which is all over in that bible in many verses ....the word fornication....

Are any of you aware of what the word fornication means in the Greek ?

1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
www.blueletterbible.org...

This includes alot of things doesnt it ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


Not a problem

Here's what Google has to say on the subject.

The thing with the bible is it's a mish-mash of different books. The old testament was a survival guide in the wild middle east. That's why it has dietary observations, the 10 commandments, etc. It was designed to help a population get through troubling times. Of course back in those days, it was too easy to think that gay people were hurting the situation (because they thought homosexuality a choice), so they railed against it in the OT. That's it. And now we have perfectly normal human beings being marginalised and scorned because of an anachronistic piece of literature.

Anyway, I think we're getting off topic here

reply to post by Simplynoone


well first off it has to be taken in full contex as in with the rest of the the book of romans,, this is what the isrealites were being told not to do.. as with in paul, the isrealites were told not to do as the romans did.. i beliieve this was aluding to the fact that the isrealite leaders wanted to maintain their heritage and beliefs.. as i believe the isrealites at the time were nomadic. due to the loss of their ancestral home..

misspelling

[edit on 22-10-2008 by scorand]

[edit on 22-10-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by dave420


I guess we need to just let the topic die then ?
No one has anything else to add or they would add it wouldnt they ?
The topic is not the bible anyway ...
I asked about one word ..
can you give me anything on that ? Any proof that that WORD was mistranslated ? Or not supposed to be in there or anything ?
FORNICATION >is the word ...


By the way I am also a fornicator ..I have been married at least twice .And I actually live with someone now have been for 13 years now (yep isnt that a surprise ..I dont believe we need the papers of the state or the blessings of man to be considered married) .. ..so I am a fornicator too ....Actually alot of people are ..if you look again at its meanings ..............
So this is not to condemn anyone (because I myself am guilty of at least one of those meanings ) ..just wondered if anyone even knew what the meaning was in Greek ...........

i think dave got it with the google link.

99% of heterosexuals have sex that 99% of the time is not for reproducing.

Obviously that statistic is not exact.

This needs to be addressed if one is to make the argument that homosexual sex is 'unnatural' because it doesn't cause reproduction. Else you fall victim to double standards at best and utter ignorance at worse.

Reproduction is just a piece of the pie when it comes to human sexuality. We are not just biological machines. We have sentience, feelings, a sense of spirituality and companionship... human sexuality transcends the narrow box that is reproductive sex. It always has.

very well put lucid... that pretty much sums up what i was saying earlier...before it got a little biblical.. lol

the definition for fornication has blurred a bit.. aside from the obvious lines of course.. i think the whole thing against same sex marriage. is because it nullifies the idea that homosexuality is fornication.. if they can marry then its not fornicating.. and the crap that its for repoduction is just plain stupid.. and useing discredited phsycology books from 70 years ago.. doesnt really help the op's stance...granted it was written by a harvard whatever,, doesnt mean much, bush went to harvard.. didnt help him did it..

[edit on 22-10-2008 by scorand]

First off I think yall need to quit associating human behaviour with animal behaviour ..they are not the same ..We were made a little above the animals and below the angels ...certainly yall know you cannot compare animal instinct with human instinct .....they do not know what right and wrong is .they do not have conciences and they do not do things for the reasons we do .......
When you say it is natural in the animal world that is not true ..everything they do is on instinct and they do not have sex for love ....or for fleshly desire ..(Like Humans do )
They have sex because they smell the ovulation time of the females ..and they are programmed to instinctively have sex ..they dont even care who with ..they will hump your leg ..they will hump a stuffed animal etc etc ...