Natural Selection and the Genetic Basis for Homosexuality

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. If we converted every straight person to gay, then we'd have no [snip] to go shopping with, and to talk to!!!!!

Mod edit: Removed offensive word.

[edit on 23-10-2008 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by Simplynoone


We don't need to ask them. Science has developed to such a level where we can reduce thought and feeling down to traces flashing on a screen. As we can scan brain activity, it's easy for scientists to view the responses to any given stimulus in a brain. From doing this we can see that other animals' brains (especially mammals) are very similar to ours. This mythical separation between man and beast is not as great as you'd think.

We are here to live and die, too. The purpose of life is what you make it.

Any claims that there is a purpose, no matter how heart-felt, are just that - claims.

Alex ...I think there are some real differences in animals and humans .Their heart soul and mind are different than ours ..Do you have any studies to prove that they are the same ? >>lol you would have to be a mind reader I guess to come up with that or know doggy talk so you could ask them ...lol .

Their hearts aren't different... (I don't think so anyway :puz The soul doesn't exist. Duncan MacDougal tried to examine the soul and used questionable methods. Today his claims that the soul weighed 3 ounces (Is that right??? I haven't researched this in a while) have been dismissed. Only one of his dying patients lost a total of 3 ounces at the time of death. He tested a few others, but all had differing numbers.

Again the only difference between animals, and humans is that humans are alot smarter. There are animals that are smarter than other animals, and it just so happens that humans are the smartest animals on the planet.

Do you really think that life has no purpose like being an animal ..just to live to die ?

Yeah... Humans are just a part of life, like any other animal that has been produced by nature.

Do you think it is coicidence that the only species on earth that feels it is special, and has divine beings watching over it, or divine attributes is the only species that can ask "where did we come from, why are we here"??? We humans have been asking these questions ever since we were able to think, and act not just off of our instincts. We were very primitive when we first started to ask these questions, and it is only natural for an ignorant, primitive race to ask such questions, and make up answers for that which they have no answers for. Which is where God comes in, and all the other supernatural entities like Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Horus, Jesus, and all the other God's that humans have believed in throughout history.

The same could be said for bacteria, no?

Of course

I think the question has to be asked about people who live a hetrosexual or homosexual lifestyle for 20-30-40 years and then fall in love with someone of the opposite or same sex.

Can this be down to genetics too?
Is it nature's population control kicking in?

reply to post by jakyll


Or the fact that as many people have a problem with homosexuality might have something to do with it. If the person in question is raised to think that being gay is bad, they will do anything they can to "not be gay", even though that is impossible. Maybe the person can't keep up the pretense any more, and lets their true self out.

The societal implications for being gay are still very serious for many, many folks.

reply to post by dave420


Oh,of course that happens.
But you have to take into account those who are gay who then fall for someone of the opposite sex.
Have they been straight all along and have just been in denial?
I don't see it like that.

reply to post by Bizmark35


Are you serious ? Have I bashed anyone in this thread ? Because I have questions you see it as bashing >?
Personally I do not believe that most homosexuals can be converted .Just like Athiests ..they already have their minds made up and will not change it no matter what ...alot like me .I wont ever change my mind and convert to Athiesm or New Ageism or Gnostism ..or anything else .....no matter what Scientific proof they can dream up ...

The questions are really just for my own curiosity..I have always been a person who has lots of questions as to WHY this why that .....
If you dont believe that I dont know what else I can say ..

If this is bothering yall ..then no problem ..I will leave this thread alone ..


OH PS ..I was thinking about what you said about me wanting to convert you ..To what >>? I do not belong to any organized religion ..and according to my bible ..it says UNLESS THE SPIRIT DRAW you ..you cannot even come ...So I do not go out and seek people to come to the Lord ..I do share what I believe with people and warn people of what is to come according to the bible ..Isnt that what yall do here on ATS too ? You see conspiricies happening and you go out of your way to WARN anyone who will listen dont you ? That is the same thing that I want to do ...only you use the Media and various books etc ..to say SEE something is happening ..open your eyes ...be forewarned on whats comeing etc ..
I use the media and the conspiricies of this world and the bible as my means of finding out whats going on ..and warn accordingly ...whats the difference ?



[edit on 23-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Homosexuals' minds are as made up on their sexuality as your mind is as made up on having two legs. Please don't assume gay people choose to be gay - it's very insulting to everyone involved, yourself included.

You do have many questions. I'm not sure if you want to hear the answers, though.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Homosexuals' minds are as made up on their sexuality as your mind is as made up on having two legs. Please don't assume gay people choose to be gay - it's very insulting to everyone involved, yourself included.

You do have many questions. I'm not sure if you want to hear the answers, though.

Well that is still up for debate now isnt it Dave ?
Some believe it is some believe it isnt (genetic defect) ...

The one real question I am trying to answer (for my own curiosity)is really simple if you think about it.
Why would God create a homosexual (as in it is natural)and then turn around and say he will judge them for being that way ? He wouldnt ..
If they could not help it (a genetic thing) they would not be judged for it..

Just like I have always said I do not believe that God allowed incest at first (Cain and his wife) and then turn around and say incest is wrong and you will be judged for doing it ....

It does not make sense that he would do that .so to me there is more to all of this than we think ...
and I am just trying to get to the bottom of it all.


If it dont make sense then it cant be true ..thats what I have noticed most of the time anyway ...

And I have always been curious just what homosexuals believe about it .
Do they think it is a choice or something they cant help (genetic)...which it seems as I said ...some believe they have no choice ..some believe they did ....(which makes it even more confusing to me )
And if it is genetic and they have no choice then why arent they all pissed off that God did not give them free will to choose their own lifes direction.Like he did the rest of us ?
If they have no choice in this ,..do they feel like they were forced into it then ? I mean he gave me a choice to be hetro or homosexual or even bisexual or even celebate (whatever I choose ) ..why dont they have a choice in that > ? (which I know only God can answer most of those questions ..but I do like to hear others opinions on it ) ....
So many questions lol ..and so little answers ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


Yes, some believe it is genetic and some believe it isn't. However the evidence shows it most definitely is not a choice, any more than you chose to have a stomach or a left thigh. There are other causes for homosexuality other than genetic - hormonal influence during pregnancy is one. Don't think it's 'genetic' or 'choice' - the causes are still being hotly debated, but one thing everyone agrees on is that it is most definitely NOT a choice. The causes are 100% biological.

God wouldn't judge a homosexual. Homophobic people who wrote the bible would, though. And that's the crux of the issue.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Yes, some believe it is genetic and some believe it isn't. However the evidence shows it most definitely is not a choice, any more than you chose to have a stomach or a left thigh. There are other causes for homosexuality other than genetic - hormonal influence during pregnancy is one. Don't think it's 'genetic' or 'choice' - the causes are still being hotly debated, but one thing everyone agrees on is that it is most definitely NOT a choice. The causes are 100% biological.

God wouldn't judge a homosexual. Homophobic people who wrote the bible would, though. And that's the crux of the issue.

Dave are you hearing yourself ? All of the men who wrote the bible are homophobes ...lol sheesh ..ok then all men who are writing those theories about homosexuals and the genetic stuff are homosexuals with an agenda ...Right ? Wrong ...if I thought that way then I would never take anything that a homosexual says as the truth .and I would not ever read anything they write because I would think they are all full of BS ....just like your doing with people who wrote the bible and those who believe in it ..talk about being closed minded .....
Not everyone agrees that it is not a choice ....and not everyone agrees that it is genetic (I have done some digging and read from both sides of this ..and even from UNBIASED unCHRISTIAN sources who have no proof for either argument) you know that ...no facts yet at all ..it is all just theory ..And just because DAVE says so ..doesnt make it so .

Are you that arrogant to believe you have all truths Dave ?And you have everything all figured out according to Dave >?
And just because you say it is so I am supposed to just believe you know the truth and just believe you ? subject dropped eh ...NOT ..




[edit on 23-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone

Why would God create a homosexual (as in it is natural)and then turn around and say he will judge them for being that way ? He wouldnt ..
If they could not help it (a genetic thing) they would not be judged for it..

Yet many Christians don't listen to gay people when they are told it isn't a choice.They go out of the way to try and prove that it is.

God created everything,not just those things that people like to accept.
People's prejudice and bigotry blinds them to that fact.

Just like I have always said I do not believe that God allowed incest at first (Cain and his wife) and then turn around and say incest is wrong and you will be judged for doing it ....

For the human family to have come from Adam & Eve,incest must have taken place.Just as it does in the tribes that still exist to this day.If it didn't then the tribes would die out.

God can do whatever he wants,including changing the rules.In fact,he has to do that if religion is to keep up with society.

And if it is genetic and they have no choice then why arent they all pissed off that God did not give them free will to choose their own lifes direction.

No one chooses their sexuality.
Therefore the logical conclusion is that God accepts homosexuality or has a use for it in the grand scheme of things.Or both.

Oh my gosh here we go again ....ok then ...if you say so ...then it must be so .

Ok then ...I am off to seek answers to my other questions about other subjects then ..since the case is closed with this one .....truth has been found ...

thanks for the help ..

reply to post by Simplynoone


You can be as flippant as you want,but it doesn't change this fact:

God created everything,not just those things that people like to accept.

You can't accept it because,like many others,its not the answer you want,its not something you want to hear.


And if the offspring of Adam & Eve didn't have incestuous union,then you explain how the human family came about.(from a Biblical point of view i mean.)







[edit on 23-10-2008 by jakyll]

Why would God create a homosexual (as in it is natural)and then turn around and say he will judge them for being that way ? He wouldnt ..

Maybe God made a mistake???

Or MAAAAAAAYbe, Just maybe, the people who wrote the bible 2000 years ago were too caught up in their homophobia, and did not bother to learn why homosexuals were homosexuals.... Not that they had the means to anyway... They were just an ignorant people...

If it dont make sense then it cant be true ..thats what I have noticed most of the time anyway ...

Then by your logic the bible cannot possibly be true...

I mean he gave me a choice to be hetro or homosexual or even bisexual or even celebate

No he didn't give you a choice to be straight, you just were...

reply to post by Simplynoone


I'm not saying all the guys who wrote the bible are homophobic, but the ones that were bashing the gay folks, by the very definition of 'homophobic', are.

And no, I don't have all the answers. I do, however, know a bit more about the biological factors affecting sexuality than you do. Clearly.

Homosexuality is not a choice. That is not up for debate, as it has been demonstrated beyond doubt by many scientific studies.

reply to post by Simplynoone

Some believe it is some believe it isnt (genetic defect)

Most don't care whether it's genetic or otherwise. They just knew their sexual orientation. Do or did you care about yours? Did you even think about it?

The only reason why people are so concerned about it is because religion has made homosexuality a sin.

Why would God create a homosexual (as in it is natural)and then turn around and say he will judge them for being that way ? He wouldnt

Ask questions like that will open your mind more. I am glad you are questioning things.
Most Christians are Paulians. They follow Paul and his writings. They consider the epistles to be word of God and that include Paul's opinion on homosexuality.
Jesus never criticized homosexuals. Think about it. He accepted all people as who they are and loved them.

Just like I have always said I do not believe that God allowed incest at first (Cain and his wife) and then turn around and say incest is wrong and you will be judged for doing it

I'm confused with that question. It seems like you are saying that either incest is wrong, period, and Cain and his wife were wrong for doing it, or that incest is okay for all time.
Cain and his wife being brother and sister is debatable. Adam in Hebrew word means mankind. There were already more people than Adam and Eve.

If it dont make sense then it cant be true ..thats what I have noticed most of the time anyway

Keep questioning... you'll see the light

And if it is genetic and they have no choice then why arent they all pissed off that God did not give them free will to choose their own lifes direction.

Like I said above, homosexuals are not concerned about it. I know some homosexuals are pissed off that they are born homosexuals because of the taboo on homosexuality in society.

...even celebate (whatever I choose )

That is a choice. You can be straight or homosexual and still choose to be celibate.

So many questions lol ..and so little answers ...

Keep asking and it'll dawn on you one day

to be honest i think the problem ic with church docterine being wrong in this case. as with the idea that they put out that mary magdelene. was a prostitute.. and lets face it, its not like the church hasnt been wrong before.. the church is run by man, and man is fallible therefore the churches interpertation and understanding is also fallible.. and regardless of afiliation or non the idea that god hates gays is church docterine and is hottly debated on this issue.. by the best biblical scolars and scientists/physcologists in the world.... the answer leads to this.. yes its natural, no its not a choice, and that the scriptures used to further the idea that god hates gays are misinterepted, and generally misleading, remember this book has been rewritten many times. with proven mistakes, the argument that the church uses is falling apart.. though there are quite a few people who will clling to church docterine regardless of proof of the contrairy,

reply to post by Malzypants


Thank you Malzypants. If people would quit looking at it as some disease to be cured, it might be the very thing to save us from ourselves as we destroy the planet and overpopulate ourselves. Everyone deserves an equal chance at life. Let gay people live their lives and be free. To each their own.

My question is why do anti-gay people think about gay sex more than even gay people think about gay sex? It seems to be an obsession with homophobic people. Shouldn't straight people be thinking about straight sex, not gay sex? Why the obsession with gay sex?

reply to post by asmeone2


This is the theory that has always made sense to me.

I'm not sure how fond I am of researchers or whomever trying to figure out why some people are gay. I don't know, I guess in my mind, researchers searching for the "cause" of homosexuality is kinda synonymous with searching for a "cure" or "treatment" for homosexuality, which I think is stupid and implies that homosexuality is wrong in some way.