Natural Selection and the Genetic Basis for Homosexuality

reply to post by jakyll


So you're a gay chick (not meant to sound condescending). That would make you the first I've ever known.

reply to post by Good Wolf


That i am

And,don't worry,i don't get offended by terms such as 'gay chick.'
Its usually the political correct nutters who come out an tell you not to call certain groups such things.


I believe that the theory of 'being born that way' comes from gays,like me,who have never been attracted to the opposite sex.Many gays,especially in the past,hid their feelings because of the stigma that goes along with 'coming out of the closet.'

Its definatly not a choice,but why some people are gay and others not,i can't say for sure.I do like Darwin's theory though, (as mentioned in a previous post) that evolution also involves population control,if it didn't then the planet would be over-populated in no time at all by man and animals.

WOW people are ignorant! Where to start?

To the original posts that if it is genetic the human race is in danger, that's ridiculous. These genes won't be so rapidly passed that in the future everyone will be gay and the human race will die out because humans will be unable to reproduce. That's like saying that everyone in the future will have brown hair and brown eyes.

I have no idea if it is genetic or not, but being a scary lesbian myself I can say that it has never been a choice. I tried to be with a man because I was so scared to come out, but it just felt wrong. According to my parents (yes a loving mother and father - go figure) they always knew that I was gay but they were waiting for me to figure it out. Thank god all of my family and friends have always been supportive.

The stereo-type that all gay people are permiscuous (sp?) and have a higher chance of getting STDs is also ridiculous. It's a stereo-type, which unfortunately there are a great number of concerning homosexuals. I don't fit the normal lesbian "stereo-type", if you saw me on the street without talking to me you would probably never know that I'm gay. I don't sleep around, even though I'm gay my parents did a great job in raising me with high morals.

I myself am happily commited four years now. No kids for us, 1 dog and 1 cat are handful enough. We spoil our nieces and nephews tremendously, yes my brothers and sisters trust their kids with us imagine that. Actually, if anything were to happen to my siblings and their spouses we are willed to take over guardianship of their children. I am so insulted that you would even compare pedophiles with gay people, that is just sick and wrong!

Please keep in mind with some of your posts that us scary gay people are still PEOPLE and some of your comments hurt.

reply to post by Skamindy77


I am only asking questions so that I can understand it better .
If I dont ask then how will I find out anything ? I wont and will remain ignorant wont I ?
I have never really known anyone who was a homosexual so I dont have anyone I could ask ....I have lived around some though ..I lived in Key West Florida for about 6 months and most all of my neighbors were gay ...alot of people were gay there actually ...
I just treated them like people and didnt want to ask these questions because we didnt really know eachother that good .....
I did wonder though why ..If gay men do not like women then why do they pick a feminine type man instead of another macho one ? This tells me it is mostly a sexual preference more than an emotional one ..same thing with lesbians ..the macho one always picks a feminine one ...WHY ? Why not two macho types and two feminine types together ?

The question about pedophile was more about the genetic thing .
But I also wanted to know at what age a homosexual person would consider not to young to date >>>that is an honest question ...what I found out was it is more about maturity and puberty and the law that determines (at least one person on here ) on how old is old enough ...
But that just brings more questions for me ..What would help you determine what you would consider as mature mentally ? if your immature yourself ..then you could not be any sort of expert on what being mature enough actually was ...

If as some of you believe it was a genetic defect ..then I wonder if there is also a genetic defect with pedophiles,transvestites,S&Ms etc etc .....if so is the same defect or a different one ..because they are all sexual in nature ..
Which makes me wonder now about any connections at all ...

reply to post by Skamindy77


[I tried to be with a man because I was so scared to come out, but it just felt wrong.]

How old were you ? and what made you feel like it was wrong ?Did you ever try it again later when you were older and did it feel wrong everytime ?
And what made your parents think you were gonna be gay ?

Maybe the feeling of it being wrong was because you were too young and your concience was just telling you that you were not old enough to even have sex yet .

I have never really known anyone who was a homosexual so I dont have anyone I could ask

Then why are you making such bold claims???

[I tried to be with a man because I was so scared to come out, but it just felt wrong.]

How old were you ? and what made you feel like it was wrong ?Did you ever try it again later when you were older and did it feel wrong everytime ?
And what made your parents think you were gonna be gay ?

Maybe the feeling of it being wrong was because you were too young and your concience was just telling you that you were not old enough to even have sex yet .

She's a homosexual, and is attracted to females, so maybe she felt as icky as a heterosexual male would if he was forced to date other males???

[Then why are you making such bold claims]

Alex they are not claims ..they are questions ..
I have no answers to any of this ...everything I BELIEVE about it is just a guess .......I am trying to get YOUR VIEWS to possibly change my beliefs on it (seriously I dont know what to think about this most of the time) .....facts according to each one of you ..since there are no real studies out there I can find to answer my questions ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[I tried to be with a man because I was so scared to come out, but it just felt wrong.]

How old were you ? and what made you feel like it was wrong ?Did you ever try it again later when you were older and did it feel wrong everytime ?
And what made your parents think you were gonna be gay ?

You keep looking for some kind of "logical explanation" but you won't find one. If you were gay, you would know what Simplynoone is talking about, but you aren't and you would rather be a bigot than take anyone's word for it. It has nothing to do with any decision at any point, besides a decision not to be miserable and to force yourself with someone with whom you are completely uncomfortable in bed (would you force yourself into a same-sex relationship if it was -- for whatever reason -- the social norm? I don't think so, because I know how hard that is!).

Studies have shown there are differences in brain functions and hormone activity: THINK ABOUT THAT. Do you think those things are not going to alter the way someone physically thinks and feels?

If gay men do not like women then why do they pick a feminine type man instead of another macho one ?

What about the feminine one that picks the macho man?

See, you've already excluded 50% of the gays you were just referencing in your own example. You just don't have your head about you the right way in this subject, and it's a very emotionally-charged controversial subject (because of rednecks ).

reply to post by Simplynoone


Being gay is exactly like being straight. Asking a gay person "when did you first know you are gay?" is like me asking you "when did you first know you are straight?". And asking "how do you know you are gay?" is exactly the same as me asking "how do you know you are straight?".

It's the same exact thing, only with a bunch of social stigma still attached.

You seem like a reasonable person, and I'm sure you're asking these questions out of ignorance, not bigotry. If you can only understand that gay and straight are the same things - human sexuality - you'll learn a lot quicker.

As for the macho guy/feminine guy thing, that's not always the case. You can get a butch couple and a more feminine couple, just as you can in straight couples. I think you are highlighting normal human behaviour common to all of us as weird simply because it has the 'gay' tag attached. Just because gay people do it doesn't mean to say it's a product of being gay Get over that and you'll understand all of us are normal - you, me, everyone on this thread. And I know that's what you want.

Personally I believe there's a sliding scale between 'gay' and 'straight', and each of us will be happiest when we find our place on it, and that each and every spot on the scale is as perfectly normal as any other. But now that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by dave420
Personally I believe there's a sliding scale between 'gay' and 'straight', and each of us will be happiest when we find our place on it, and that each and every spot on the scale is as perfectly normal as any other.

I also think this is absolutely the case, and I think this model was originally suggested by a psychologist who had carried out a lot of study on personal testimonies.

Straight people also engage in homosexual experiences, but are still straight by and large, have a girlfriend/fiancee/wife, etc. This is taught in introductory psychology courses, and I know it from experience. People are curious, probably even people that you know but would never think about. I've heard other people joke they wouldn't get any action at all if not for straight guys. Not far from that place on our "scale" are bisexuals who could make a "choice" if anyone could (ie they may decide one day to be exclusively heterosexual and then say it's all only a choice, when they were engaging both sexes up until that point). There's the full spectrum out there that one would imagine between the two poles, and all the accompanying shades and flavors of personalities and dramas and etc. Names and labels mostly serve to confuse people with stereotypical ideas that are hardly ever the case anyway.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by bsbray11]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simply noone, I will try to answer your questions as I truly hope that you are trying to understand better and not just passing judgement.

I can't tell you why or how people choose the personality types that they want to be with (IE: Macho w/Femine, Feminine w/Feminine etc.) I can only speak for myself, I don't think that I fit into any of those categories. I primp, style my hair and wear makeup yet I do my own home improvements and love to watch football (GO GIANTS) My partner wouldn't fit into either category either, while she doesn't like sports and it scares me to think of her wielding a hammer I wouldn't peg her as completely Feminine. I guess I just think of us as people and women, I wouldn't put us in a specific class. Just like all types of people, we don't neccessarily always fit into a stereo-type.

I was 21 when I finally came to terms with the fact of my being gay. My parents wouldn't let me date until I was 16 (which IMHO is a good thing) I dated guys in high school because that was "the thing to do", but it just didn't feel right. I dated one poor guy on and off through highschool, I just couldn't love him in more than a brotherly best friend sort of way. we're actually still friends. I lost my virginity at 20 (to a guy) and it just felt wrong, and yes I tried one other time and still it felt wrong, I can't explain it other than that. Try and think of yourself with a woman, that feeling of wrong you get, that's what I felt.

I started dating a woman around 21 and even just the first kiss there it was like something inside finally clicked and I knew that's what I had been missing before.

Even now as an adult, I just know that is who I am, just like you probably know that you are meant to be straight.

I have asked my parents how they knew, they said that it was just a feeling that they got. They said that I was so unlike my sisters. I always played with Transformers and GI Joes vs. Barbies. I always played with my brother and the boys in the neighborhood. I guess it was just a parents intuition or something.

I hope that this has answered some of your questions. Please feel free to ask, I will not be offended, I would much rather you make honest inquiries rather than just assume the worst.


[edit on 10/21/08 by Skamindy77]

reply to post by AlexG141989


it's nice to know that not everyone passes judgement on things that they don't know about.

Honestly, I'm so surrounded by great friends and loving family that I sometimes forget that my lifestyle isn't always accepted. It's things like this thread that bring that ugly truth out, and it's nice to know that there are always people out there that won't just jump to pass judgement about something that doesn't fit in with the norm.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
If gay men do not like women then why do they pick a feminine type man instead of another macho one ? This tells me it is mostly a sexual preference more than an emotional one ..same thing with lesbians ..the macho one always picks a feminine one ...WHY ? Why not two macho types and two feminine types together ?

This is totally, utterly and completely wrong.

I am a gay man. Masculine. Actually I call a lot of heterosexuals "Fag" because I act more masculine than them. BTW, I call them that as a joke. My boyfriend (of 7 years BTW) is just as masculine as I am. I am not attracted to nelley queens (no offense to them) and/or women.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
How old were you ?

I was 17 when I first had sex. It was with a girl.

and what made you feel like it was wrong ?

Having to think about men to perform kind of clued me in.

Did you ever try it again later when you were older and did it feel wrong everytime ?

Yes, I had a girlfriend when I was 27 and yes, it still felt wrong. BTW, she knew I was/am gay and we just went from friend to lover. But, I couldn't put her threw it. When I broke up with her, she even said we could have three-ways with other men if I wanted. It just wasn't right either way.

And what made your parents think you were gonna be gay ?

Probably because parents know their children.

ok so homosexuality will not lead to the demise of our species, even if through the process of evolution all humans become it, i have many gay friends all of which have the desire to have children just not the desire to be with a member of opposite sex to make that happen, so they adopt, or have a surrogate mother, or have invitro. there are ways to ensure the human poplution survives, even if this theory is accurate.

reply to post by Simplynoone

If as some of you believe it was a genetic defect ..then I wonder if there is also a genetic defect with pedophiles,transvestites,S&Ms etc etc .....if so is the same defect or a different one ..because they are all sexual in nature ..

Its a defect to rape children,but its not a defect to have consensual sex/relationship with someone of the same sex.

A transvestite,at its most basic,is just someone who enjoys wearing clothes of the opposite sex.The image we usually have is that of a man dressing as a woman and to many it is strange,but more women wear men's clothes than vice versa.

S&M...well,this depends on what you class as S&M.Is it a defect to be sexually adventurous,whether within a marriage or not??

Thank you for answering my questions all of you ..I know you didnt have to ..so I really appreciate it .

Why is it that some you think that everyone must be a bigot just because they are asking YOU *(the source) the questions ? Would you prefer I just listen to what everyone else says about it ? Even online doing a search ..I never get anything except about violence against gays ..and I do not condone the use of any violence against anyone ..ever ...I hate violence ..another thing I hate are people who would call yall names and make fun of you ...I hate that .and I dont believe that is right to do to anyone .



Just so yall know ..I am different too ...in many ways ..(I dont like any sex) not that I am celebate because I am not ....
(I am thinking I could also have some sort of genetic defect ) which is one reason why I ask so many questions from everyone about sex ..
I feel like it is so totally physical that I actually hate it because of that .(Always have even before knowing anything about sex)

I can assure you I am not a bigot
Most of my life I have always been for the little guy ..I used to hang at school with all the kids NO ONE LIKED and the ones that got made fun of ...
The misfits (which I know yall can relate) ...because in a way I am one too..even though I have friends of all sorts .....I can get along with anyone and always try to ...

So I am not the bad christian who hates anyone thats different and only wish hell on you all ..because that is not me at all ...


[edit on 21-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Why is it that some you think that everyone must be a bigot just because they are asking YOU *(the source) the questions ?

I hope I didn't come off as being harsh. That was not my intention. As you have found out, it's hard to communicate 100% of what you mean in forums like this.

To add, I am glad you would rather ask questions than just go by what you've heard. I swear, for about the first year that I came out to my parents, everytime I talked to mom, she had a list of questions she had thought of since our last talk. I didn't mind it at all.

Just so yall know ..I am different too ...in many ways ..(I dont like any sex) not that I am celebate because I am not ....
(I am thinking I could also have some sort of genetic defect ) which is one reason why I ask so many questions from everyone about sex ..
I feel like it is so totally physical that I actually hate it because of that .(Always have even before knowing anything about sex)

I know people who prefer not to be touched. Especially in a sexual way. So, I can understand what you are saying.

So I am not the bad christian who hates anyone thats different and only wish hell on you all ..because that is not me at all ...

Actually, I could tell that from your posts. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

[edit on 10/21/2008 by Griff]

[edit on 10/21/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff



Thank you Griff for understanding ..

Seriously I have lots of questions for my own curiosity and so I can put to rest what I have been told compared to what is fact from the source .
That is really all I am wanting to do ..


Seriously I believe we are all in the same boat on this earth and I do not want to alienate anyone ...I love people .ALL PEOPLE ...I am no respectors of persons AT ALL >....I even love even mean people lol ...I spent the last two marriages with very mean hateful men(Not now I am very happy now) ..just because I felt so bad for them ..they needed love ..and I gave it to them ..because they needed it ..more than I needed to be free from the abuse (thats really how I looked at it ) ..

I will be back have to go out for dinner .