The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by RolandBrichter
This market is based on nothing, a dream, an illusion...and the longer the pumpers (parasites) exacerbate the illusion, the more traumatic the inevitable crash back to reality will be....

When has the market NOT been based on a dream or illusion? What's a P/E ratio? A ratio of stock price to earnings. The only reason a P/E ratio is higher than 1 (1 represents that price per share = earnings per share) is because people speculate that the stock is worth more.

Reality is when all P/Es hit 1 or less (true reality). You don't want to see that happen...

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Have you guys looked at the premium prices for financial options? All have collapsed today with barely any movement because of implied volatility being totally unsurped from the prices. Traders are beginning to feel more comfortable with financials now....

RR, some financial options, like C, have had very little premium at all for awhile. A month ago I picked up Sep and Dec 3 calls for next to nothing premium-wise. It's really a gamble though because my take on it was that noone thinks C is worth anything long-term hence the lack of premium in longer-term calls.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Wow ... frightening stats considering what Obama is trying to pass through the House..

It's almost like once elected these guys tune everything out and forget the World around them... Maybe they forgot we are in the middle of a recession and a 5% hike in taxes (not including cap and trade... Jesus... ) is not exactly the best idea right now. Maybe they just don't care? I don't know..

Originally posted by titian

When has the market NOT been based on a dream or illusion? What's a P/E ratio? A ratio of stock price to earnings. The only reason a P/E ratio is higher than 1 (1 represents that price per share = earnings per share) is because people speculate that the stock is worth more.

Reality is when all P/Es hit 1 or less (true reality). You don't want to see that happen...

P/E ratios are and always have been utterly useless to traders..There is no linkage of market P/Es to subsequent returns...you are right, they are useless illusions

reply to post by RolandBrichter


Yes, fundamentals are truly an illusion in a non trending market.

Everyone is a genius during a bull market, but it takes something more than fundamentals to make money in non trending market such as this.

This is why, IMO at least, TA is the only way to always view the marketplace.

Tomorrow BAC and C and GE and I believe GOOG reports...I don't see how these CANNOT be market moving if there is good guidance and much better earnings (or bad guidance and much worse earnings). So we will have to see. Also expirations is tomorrow and that can always bring some volatility. Let's just hope tomorrow isn't flat

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


GOOG and IBM reported tonight already

IBM dominated (as i said of course, they never disappoint) and GOOG was good as well (but not as good as IBM)

GE is the major player now.. if we can get them to pull an IBM I think we see 9000 next week.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

GOOG and IBM reported tonight already

IBM dominated (as i said of course, they never disappoint) and GOOG was good as well (but not as good as IBM)

GE is the major player now.. if we can get them to pull an IBM I think we see 9000 next week.

Citi and BAC really haven't been hyped as much as the other financials, so don't discount their power either. With that being said, I need technology to be volatile, I own things on texas instruments (txn).

You downer people are not going to see it. The rallies are only going to grow.
March was the low.
After this rally we'll see a higher low.
It isn't going to collapse.
P/E ratio is armchair quarterback talk.
Technical indicators are somewhat interesting.
But the calendar is the best indicator.

It looks like we are putting in a good top for the trading range in the equity markets. The bears will probably be calling for a new low down below 8000 by the end of next week.

The equity markets could easily stay in a sideways pattern within the recent trading range through the fall. We have heard some reports of cost cutting improvements in corporate numbers and a few companies are starting to have more optimistic outlooks.

Unfortunately a lot of the core problems brought on by this recession including toxic debt and unemployment are still there though so its premature to expect a huge breakout rally to the upside in stocks.

Oil is in extreme over supply so the recent consolidation back near $62 a barrel probably won't hold for long. When it breaks back to the downside it will take the commodity and equity markets with it.

Glad people here can see there is a severe disconnection between the markets and the economy - because there absolutely is - what you are witnessing is not - absolutely NOT economic recovery it is inflation. The markets have been flooded with incredible sums of money via the the financials and banks - this is the driving force behind the rally. Beyond that major corporations have de-leveraged and issued bonds, have untold access to untold billions in almost free cash - they should look bloody good.

So the reality is that unemployment continues to rise at almost half a million new applicants per month while those with jobs are going on forced vacation, taking pay cuts and having their hours slashed - none of this is counted though, but its there. So the 70% of the entire US economy - consumption - has fallen straight off a cliff and has simply reached terminal velocity - something which pundits are confusing for bottom out - far, far from it.

Real estate, if its even possible, is still declining with reports of increases in home sales being smudged by banks moving stock. HUGE over supplies of housing have completely flooded the market - this will not recover in any meaningful way for 5 years minimum.

The only hope of global recovery is China - and this is driven my US consumption - not happening and is simply the stimulus pushing through backed by a transition from US treasuries to stock piled commodities - something which is also going to collapse.

So all that has managed to be achieved is a massive inflation of debt, a massive tension placed on future inflation. No bank has been reformed, in fact they are being clearly more reckless as it sucks money from the economy with automated trading, backed with unquestioning government assurance - not even a risk. Car companies are being sold off, have folded, gone bankrupt, or generally completely finished.

Taxes are about to be raised across the board - impacting what remains of the consumer economy. Unfunded liabilities along with the current fiscal brain explosion is going to cripple the government coffers and taxpayers over the next 5 years, totally cripple your society if you decide to takle the problem - in reality you wont and your entire economy is going to be downgraded.

The only thing which can really save the US economy is going to be some serious war - serious war - were talking with China or Iran - beyond that your stuffed -

But of course the markets are going up - there isn't a SINGLE MEANINGFUL statistic which points to any recovery in the economy - so the markets have simply been injected with almost 2 trillion in printed cash - thats it - thats all there is too it - anything else and you are absolutely, totally kidding yourself.

Here is the financial recovery of Goldman summed up perfectly - you can apply this to almost the entire market charade -

trueslant.com...

US economy is totally tanked - there is a real reason why they are now seriously and openly talking about a global currency because everyone knows that the US currency is totally worthless.......

But yes - the markets are going gang busters -

We don't just use the US Dollar, we use the stock market also.

For example, if European traders (and George Soros) try to ratchet up the Euro and make our US Dollar lose value by comparison, then we will simply ratchet up our stocks. If we need Dollars we can draw them out either up or down. If we go down things only get worse. So we go up. If we need to draw from the pool of liquidity at least we can do so with fewer and fewer shares. Eventually other people will want to jump into the pool so they don't miss the movement. Let's say for instance people holding Euros want to jump into our pool and create bigger waves. So Euros are then exchanged for Dollars.... fresh funds come in, and the Dollar rallies against the Euro.

The movement continues and the waves grow larger.

Originally posted by audas
Glad people here can see there is a severe disconnection between the markets and the economy - because there absolutely is - what you are witnessing is not - absolutely NOT economic recovery it is inflation. The markets have been flooded with incredible sums of money via the the financials and banks - this is the driving force behind the rally. Beyond that major corporations have de-leveraged and issued bonds, have untold access to untold billions in almost free cash - they should look bloody good.

So the reality is that unemployment continues to rise at almost half a million new applicants per month while those with jobs are going on forced vacation, taking pay cuts and having their hours slashed - none of this is counted though, but its there. So the 70% of the entire US economy - consumption - has fallen straight off a cliff and has simply reached terminal velocity - something which pundits are confusing for bottom out - far, far from it.

Real estate, if its even possible, is still declining with reports of increases in home sales being smudged by banks moving stock. HUGE over supplies of housing have completely flooded the market - this will not recover in any meaningful way for 5 years minimum.

The only hope of global recovery is China - and this is driven my US consumption - not happening and is simply the stimulus pushing through backed by a transition from US treasuries to stock piled commodities - something which is also going to collapse.

So all that has managed to be achieved is a massive inflation of debt, a massive tension placed on future inflation. No bank has been reformed, in fact they are being clearly more reckless as it sucks money from the economy with automated trading, backed with unquestioning government assurance - not even a risk. Car companies are being sold off, have folded, gone bankrupt, or generally completely finished.

Taxes are about to be raised across the board - impacting what remains of the consumer economy. Unfunded liabilities along with the current fiscal brain explosion is going to cripple the government coffers and taxpayers over the next 5 years, totally cripple your society if you decide to takle the problem - in reality you wont and your entire economy is going to be downgraded.

The only thing which can really save the US economy is going to be some serious war - serious war - were talking with China or Iran - beyond that your stuffed -

But of course the markets are going up - there isn't a SINGLE MEANINGFUL statistic which points to any recovery in the economy - so the markets have simply been injected with almost 2 trillion in printed cash - thats it - thats all there is too it - anything else and you are absolutely, totally kidding yourself.

Here is the financial recovery of Goldman summed up perfectly - you can apply this to almost the entire market charade -

trueslant.com...

US economy is totally tanked - there is a real reason why they are now seriously and openly talking about a global currency because everyone knows that the US currency is totally worthless.......

But yes - the markets are going gang busters -

Yeah but this stands - perhaps you also should read Steve Keens DebtDeflation blog.....

After 10 million lines of the source code written and some 20 lines to debug, July 17 DJI chart is ready for use. It is a beta version of WGRDTEA, so use some discretion in handling your 20 billion portfolio.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cdc512b26573.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by audas


You are absolutely right, we are now heading to inflation, state and federal hike in taxes and not enough taxable income to support the federal government's debt.

And as for unemployment let not forget the millions taking pay cuts.

Inflation is in our way no matter how the government is trying to make it look unimportant.

The markets, the economy has been flooded with worthless money.

reply to post by RolandBrichter


Well said Roland...i salute you and feel the exact same way.The management at my employer is doing the same thing too,leeching off of us who make the real wealth for the company and i cant take it anymore....they drive in their 100k demos,free gas cards,free cell phones,lunches and come and go as they please and yet continue to take away from the real profit makers beacause "the company needs to cut back"........and i hope for this bs of an economy to come crashing down so everyone is on the same level playing field and basic human instincts take over:survival....k...sorry for the rant

reply to post by pause4thought


I wonder if "up-to-the-minute Market Data" is totally accurate for your title.

Please, do not take that as derogatory towards you, it is not meant in that context.

What I am referencing though is that since the entire system is flawed, set up to be able to be manipulated by the robber-barrons, and work against anyone without either inside knowledge or various financial degrees, you are destined to fail in investing without having a stockbrocker.

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

The title of the thread that started in October 2008 mirrored the situation the market was in following the September tumble. With all the circumstances considered, the market was watched closely by many folks who hang around Global Meltdown. So there were many threads which OPed the possibility that the market would crash in a similar fashion as it did in October 1929. And so the market became closely watched item in the forum, and Pause came up with the idea to dedicate a special thread to the topic. Hence the title.

I think Pause has filed a motion with the admin to change the title from its original form to "up-to-the-insiders Market Data" to acommodate views similar to yours, but since the word "insiders" was deemed ambiguous -- there are very knowledgeble folks who post here -- the whole process of renaming the threat has been be put on hold until the right word structure is found. You don't take anything connected with the market lightly, coz billions of dollars can evaporate within a nick of time.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

What I am referencing though is that since the entire system is flawed, set up to be able to be manipulated by the robber-barrons, and work against anyone without either inside knowledge or various financial degrees, you are destined to fail in investing without having a stockbrocker.

This is not true. You just have to be right and most of all have DISCIPLINE. The people that make money have discipline and do not give into their emotions. You have to recognize trends and sometimes go against what you BELIEVE. Yes there is manipulation in the markets, but that doesn't mean you will definitely lose your money. Yes trading the stock market is gambling sometimes, especially if you do it for an over night trade (which I am guilty of). I am usually always right on my trades (the reasons why I buy or sell something), but I will lose money sometimes because my emotions push me to click the cover or sell button even though I know that this trade is a good one. And I will sell at the low of the day or week and see the stock/option/currency fligh away.

Most people don't lose money in the markets because of others stealing money from you...most lose it because they can't really deal with the swings and the volatility, emotionally speaking. I am someone who cannot sometimes, and I lose money when that happens. That is why you never put a lot of money down, even though you reall feel strongly about your trade because something technical or emotional can go wrong.

4 banks failed today....

Vineyard Bank : 579 million $
First Piedmont Bank : 29 million $
BankFirst : 91 million $
Temecula Valley Bank : 391 million $

Total cost... 1.09 billion $...