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Persecution or Imagination

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posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by EricD
 


Well, it seems the RCC didn't listen to Mussolini, when he called for the excommunication of hitler.
The BBC

It is not clear if the Church ever seriously considered excommunicating Hitler.

The Vatican archives relating to pre-war Germany were opened in a bid to counter charges that the Vatican did not do enough to prevent the Holocaust.


To discuss Hitler, WWII, Catholics and the Catholic Church would take this thread way off topic.

If you would like to discuss the matter I would be happy to oblige. Please add to the thread in BTS or start a new one here.

BTW, the Catholic Church doesn't excommunicate people that it doesn't consider to be Catholics.

Eric




posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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I started out getting to this thread, excited to engage in conversation about the topic. Read til the 3rd page, and then got disgusted.

Funny the point the OP was trying to ask about was spot on. Apparently some simply saw the title, and decided to jump into the thread feeling offended and as if this thread and the questions inside's mere existence threatened and persecuted their own existence.

Amazing how some of certain religions see theirs mentioned, and immediately decide they will jump in on the offensive, no matter what the topic is about.

I will never have respect for such belief systems.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by EricD
 


One definition of often is: over and over again.

The link I gave you addresses Christianity being involved with persecution through out history and in modern society. Christianity and persecution go hand in hand fluently.


Not really....

I'm not arguing that Christianity has had many PEOPLE misuse the religion for power, greed, murder. But I don't agree that Christianity goes hand in hand with persecution. One of the biggest messages of the Bible is to love your neighbor as yourself. How does that go hand in hand with persecution?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Trustnoone1987
 


One of the biggest messages of the Bible is to love your neighbor as yourself. How does that go hand in hand with persecution?


And the bible says to love your enemies as well. However you are forgetting that Christianity is an organized religion based off the teachings of the bible, and Christianity as a whole is seldom Christ like.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 


And I totally agree with you. I left my church recently because my belief and their beliefs are completely different. I guess my only point was not all Christians are brainwashed, sheeple who walk around trying to convert people, crying about persecution when feelings are hurt. A lot are though
.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Trustnoone1987
 


I’m sure ATS is filled with intelligent Christians like you. Too bad mainly those who come into these threads are ones who are blindly defending whatever organization they associate with, however we are all guilty of that occasionally aren’t we?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by EricD
Wow. Defensive much? I think that I've been pretty civil here. I didn't call your arguments anything.
I stated up front that I certainly don't condone the actions that were taken against those that were thought to be practicing witchcraft so that someone wouldn't at a later time accuse me of minimizing those atrocities because I was asking for validation of the numbers.

Oh, you mean like what happened to me in this thread by some very rude posters? Heaven forbid it should happen to you. Always cover your arse. Noted. Gotcha.

Anyway, the numbers I got are from the History Channel's documentary which stated, "Scholars estimated the numbers of women[from the first recorded account until now] being somewhere between 60,000 and 300,000."

You can watch the video here.

I've done a lot of research on this and have seen some recorded numbers as you said, 50,000 and others as high as 350,000.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by LostNemesis
I started out getting to this thread, excited to engage in conversation about the topic. Read til the 3rd page, and then got disgusted.

Funny the point the OP was trying to ask about was spot on. Apparently some simply saw the title, and decided to jump into the thread feeling offended and as if this thread and the questions inside's mere existence threatened and persecuted their own existence.

Amazing how some of certain religions see theirs mentioned, and immediately decide they will jump in on the offensive, no matter what the topic is about.

I will never have respect for such belief systems.

That's one of the reasons I left the church. If you have anything to say that threatens their belief in any way, you are savagely attacked and verbally "crucified". No matter how logical your argument is, the mob wants your head on a platter and will stop at nothing to get it. "Christ-like"?
Makes me want to run far, far away from whichever "Christ" they follow.

Not very good "soul winners", but wait, the Bible covered that statement by saying to "dust off your sneakers" at anyone who doesn't want anything to do with your violent religion.


(just kidding about the "sneakers", I know they really wore flip-flops)



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by newagent89
Christians are persecuted everyday but not in the form that some would like to believe. A Christian might be persecuted when they are ridiculed for sticking up for something that is morally right...
(posters: do not bring up homosexuality and the evangelicals, that has nothing to do with my point).

Many people who are NOT Christians have the same moral values. I teach my own children not to pollute their mind as well as their bodies. I teach them to behave in school and to treat others as they want to be treated. I teach them not to do drugs...etc.
If they get persecuted for that, should they say "I'm being persecuted because I'm a Mommian! I was only obeying the rules of Mom and I'm suffering for it, whoa is me..."


...They [Christians or other moralists] might be persecuted at the workplace or at school for not going along with making fun of someone. Or refusing to drink or use drugs. It's in sticking up for what is right that Christians find themselves persecuted not some super duper Antichrist.

It's in verbalizing that every human being has inherent worth and dignity. It's in helping out the little guy that we encounter mundane and yet challenging persecution. Yes, Christians were violently persecuted in the past but those days are through for now. At this time, Christians encounter everyday struggles against what is wrong, not events of epic proportions. Still, some Christians want that epic struggle because they want to feel special and in the know.

I believe in Karma. I believe what goes around comes around. I do NOT believe that people are truly persecuted here in America JUST for being a Christian. But if the ones who claim persecution are anything like the rude posters on this topic, I wouldn't doubt the REAL reason for their "persecution" is none other than their own attitude towards their fellow mankind(who happen to not believe as they do).


ps: I would tend not to take Hitler too seriously.

I'm not sure what you meant by this but it makes no logical sense no matter how I try to factor it into this thread's conversation.


[edit on 7-10-2008 by mmariebored]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 


"That's a lot of horror you just displayed. Are we going to experience this sort of happening here in America any time soon? And why would I cry to a Christian? Christians formed angry mobs and set fire to over 200,000 women who they feared were witches just for having freckles on their bodies. That's just as scary as any other extremist running around wreaking havoc on the world to push their beliefs".

You just forgot to say, in there, that in doing so they also managed to wipe out almost every healer in the western world, thus killing millions of others due to lack of medical knowledge, that many of those women had...




posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
reply to post by mmariebored
 


"That's a lot of horror you just displayed. Are we going to experience this sort of happening here in America any time soon? And why would I cry to a Christian? Christians formed angry mobs and set fire to over 200,000 women who they feared were witches just for having freckles on their bodies. That's just as scary as any other extremist running around wreaking havoc on the world to push their beliefs".

You just forgot to say, in there, that in doing so they also managed to wipe out almost every healer in the western world, thus killing millions of others due to lack of medical knowledge, that many of those women had...


I wonder how much more won't make the history books one day...



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 07:14 AM
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you know what's funny? How everyone (including myself) comes in with their little comments to defend or put on a pedestal, their ways or beliefs. Well here's a little reality.

For starters, most people aren't Christians. I am a believer of C hrist's ways. To be a Christian, one must walk in the footsteps of Christ and live his teachings. Show me one who is or has and I will show you Christ himself.

We are all guilty in every race or religion of this very same thing which we discuss, so lets not even try to generalize. Not a single one of us is perfect or close to it. We're all HYPOCRITES. Yes me to.

This unfortunately is the REASON why humanity will NEVER live in harmony. We can't put aside our differences and I suppose ( justt my guess) that this is why GOD, nature (or whatever you want to call it) originally put us in different parts of the world for. Unfortunately man feels the need to CONQUER everything. We by nature are a destructive force and revert back to nothing more than a caveman with primitive instincts when attacked. Fact is we all need to grow up, but ubfortunately the world will only get worse and more immoral by the day.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
I just think you put yourself in an indefensible position, the killing if people for their thoughts, or faith.


Absolutely incorrect. Please, please find just one single comment out of my 3,300+ comments on ATS where I have ever stood up for the atrocities Christians have been responsible for. You won't find a single one but you will find dozens of me saying such things were inexcusable and deplorable. I have spoken out against violence committed by Christians, Muslims, and Atheists, etc., never playing favorites or sweeping one group's actions under the rug. I abhor violence in any form, under any banner, done by any person.

To have been put in an indefensible position would mean I would be outraged by the murder of Christians but then defend whatever atrocities Christians have committed. Or, to have only stood up for Christians but never defend other groups or individuals who have been persecuted or victimized. This has not been done.


No religion, or ideology, as a worst track record, in that field, then Christianity...


Incorrect. This has all been discussed HERE in massive 83 page depth. Atheistic, secular, and communistic regimes have killed more than Christianity... by tens of millions. There is also a reason why that thread lasted as long as it did. See if you can figure out why.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD


There is also a reason why that thread lasted as long as it did. See if you can figure out why.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by AshleyD]

Who cares? So now making a topic on here is a competition?
I, personally, just wanted some feedback on some contemplations...
I'm very happy with the results.

TY peoples!



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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To respone to the topic and what we are talking right now.

First I like to say I disagree with the statement completely. Maybe you should do a search on christian news. China for instances has persecutation all over. People getting thrown in jail, just for reading and spreading the word. Asia people like muslims trying to beat down and rap child just for their beliefs. Iran is exicuting deaths to those who just preach the word.

The problem is its not at its worst. Plus Satan comes in many ways.
But in anycase here in amercia we get it so easy. We can do whatever we want and believe in whatever we want. And someone does'nt come to my door to rap or kill me. Or throw me out of my church or told what my beliefs are.

But its not so easy in the middle east. People are dieing for the word. People are being move from homelands because they are not able to believe where they began at. Remember God blesses us. But he does'nt bless everbody equally.

Percutation is out their, and its comes in all forms. even in our very our government. God bless.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by slymattb]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
Who cares? So now making a topic on here is a competition?


No, not a competition. More like a very clear difference between Christians admitting what happened in history in this thread (which wasn't even supposed to be the topic but no CIR thread would be complete without bringing up the inquisitions, witch trials, and crusades) while in that thread the atheists tried to downplay, justify, skirt, and ignore the atrocities of secular and atheistic regimes. More like a sad contrast instead of a competition.


I'm very happy with the results.


Oh, I'm sure you are.


On my end, the posts scared the hell out me.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 


Wow. That was...

OFF TOPIC

So let's bring it back on track:


Perhaps it's the christians that should be tatooed, so we can see our potential enemy or those that would be a potential threat to our children.


That is an excerpt from another member's post on BTS this morning.

Your thoughts? What would you think of Tattooing Christians to let society know who they are?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


No, because not everyone stays the same over time. People change. They grow and learn. They "put away childish things"...it isn't right to torment a person forever for what they thought as a child. Some people are so busy with working, raising kids etc., they don't bother to question what they believe and why they believe it, and sometimes, just sometimes, God forces them to stop and listen to him instead of whatever dogma they found themselves in. This is called "waking up".

[edit on 7-10-2008 by mmariebored]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 


Do you not realize it works both ways and that some accept Christianity as adults? That they also feel as if they 'woke up?'



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