Persecution or Imagination, page 4

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reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 02:44 PM by maria_stardust

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reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 02:44 PM by Trustnoone1987

reply to post by mmariebored

I'm a Christian and I do go to church (most of the time) and I can assure you no one in my church has ever complained about being persecuted lol. And polls can be made to prove ANYTHING you can't lump all Christians into the same category just because you've talked to people and have made a few polls. Like I said in my previous post the ones that are whining need to stop.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Trustnoone1987]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 02:53 PM by mmariebored

reply to post by Trustnoone1987

Well actually, the poles proved that it was evenly split, which tells me that their are intelligent people in the Christian faith as well as ones who exaggerate "persecution".

(note, once again, the kind of persecution I'm speaking of is not the kind brought on by actual bloodthirsty people overseas who look for any reason to kill anybody, you can find people like that even in the christian faith)

[edit on 6-10-2008 by mmariebored]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:30 PM by mmariebored

Originally posted by mmariebored
If you go down the whole line throughout the history books, you'll find that the other Christians who were persecuted were mostly done so by their own.

Christians were the biggest persecutors of anyone who didn't follow their beliefs because they felt they had the right to do so, given by Jesus himself. Similar to the second largest religious group's pattern of behavior towards people who aren't a part of their "faith", though, Christians were slightly less violent, dew to self-righteousness.

I'm not surprised that no one even bothered to touch this statement from the OP, but instead, chose to attack a fabricated point based on their own misinterpretation of the OP. Because if someone would like to dispute these very real, murderous accounts in our history books, I'm more than game.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:36 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage

Religious people are often persecutors, not the persecuted. They are influenced to be hypocritical, and despite all the blatant hypocrisy and contradictions they don’t seem to recognize it or care.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:53 PM by AshleyD

Originally posted by mmariebored
I'm not surprised that no one even bothered to touch this statement from the OP, but instead, chose to attack a fabricated point based on their own misinterpretation of the OP. Because if someone would like to dispute these very real, murderous accounts in our history books, I'm more than game.

It was most likely glossed over for a few possible reasons:

1). It has been discussed many times in many, many threads before.

2). We don't deny it happened, we express our disgust and shame for what previous 'Christians' have done, we don't try to excuse what happened, and we certainly don't try to trivialize what those people went through. We don't claim what those people went through was justified due to stupid beliefs and we vocally acknowledge what the evil people did was in direct contrast to what Jesus taught.

If people think Western Christians are persecuting them today then they are just as guilty of what the O.P. claims Christians are guilty of- claiming persecution when it really just boils down to annoyance.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:42 PM by 19DCW71

Originally posted by mmariebored
I believe that many Christians today are not as persecuted as they imagine they are. The biggest reason they imagine they are persecuted is that, in the Bible, they are told that they will be persecuted just for following Christ.

I think you have it all wrong. I’m not brainwashed by ANY book. I take what I feel is of value in producing moral values in me and my life and the rest is just alleged history. I have my beliefs and they ARE MINE. I don't run around PUSHING them on you or anyone else and personally don't care if you accept the truth or not.

You're the one who basically started the thread attacking Christianity, and that's fine. It's your point of view. I didn't start a thread stating we're persecuted or you should convert. Everyone should do what they believe in and makes them comfortable. I’m not religious and don't go to church. I'm spiritual and study and pray in my own way. I wasn't even going to reply until (in the first post) I saw my own post being used.

Originally posted by 19DCW71
That's like saying biblical Christians were only slaughtered because they believed they were persecuted. The Jews in biblical times were only slaughtered because they believed they were. The holocaust only happened because they BELIEVED they were persecuted.
So if I analyzed this statement, I would have to take it to mean that it's either basically the fault of the ones persecuted for believing themselves to be or the persecution wasn't real but only a perception in their own minds.

Originally posted by mmariebored
I'm talking about Christians who claim they are specifically targeted for persecution.
The holocaust has nothing to do with Christian persecution.

Your right but are only using my quote (to your reply from another thread)fit your agenda. When it goes with the rest of your reply it makes a valid point. The point I was making is that persecution isn't happening in people's minds because they are convinced and perceive it to be. It is happening because it's an actuality. Hence I used the Jews persecution by hitler to point it out.

My reply to your post in another thread

Basically the point is the holocaust ACTUALLY happened and wasn't just the jews thinking they were being persecuted. You are making assumptions that persecution is only a figment of people’s imaginations. They're a reality and that's what MY quote was about in the other thread. So next time you use my quote, please make sure it's in the right context.

Originally posted by mmariebored
Hitler hated the Jews because he felt threatened by them. He targeted them for extermination along with anyone he felt was a threat. I'm sure, had his plans succeeded, his camps that destroyed so many Jewish people would have gladly welcomed any and all other enemies that disrupted his plans of world domination.

Nero, for similar reasons as Hitler, killed off many early Christians.
Yes, they actually WERE "persecuted".

I know they were/are persecuted, Thanks. All for the same reasons. Everyone feels threatened in their insecure little lives looking for meaning. I am secure and comfortable because of my faith and am happy with it if it's reality or not. I don't try to deny you your beliefs and I'll state again............" I DON"T CARE IF ANYONE ACCEPTS MY LORD OR BELIEFS"
It's a free world and I'm no bible thumper, FORCING my views upon you but will defend my beliefs when my words are misconstrued.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:43 PM by 19DCW71

Originally posted by mmariebored
If you go down the whole line throughout the history books, you'll find that the other Christians who were persecuted were mostly done so by their own.

For starters I don't believe everything I read because EVERYTHING is tainted. But using history as your basis, Africans also sold other tribes to Europeans for slave trade (hence persecution). Just as the white man is persecuted to this day for this same reason. Nobody realizes the first slave was acquired by a Dutch sailor from the Spaniards who were slave traders. So how come the Spaniards aren't persecuted?

Simply put, people fear STRENGTH. Christianity is the strongest religion and the European white Species has dominated the landscape for centuries. The American world was built by white, European, Christians. You should actually be thankful. But if you gotta hate, hate the game, not the players.

Originally posted by mmariebored
Christians were the biggest persecutors of anyone who didn't follow their beliefs because they felt they had the right to do so, given by Jesus himself. Similar to the second largest religious group's pattern of behavior towards people who aren't a part of their "faith", though, Christians were slightly less violent, dew to self-righteousness.

Last time I checked Christians weren't intentionally slaughtering innocent woman and children (raping woman and BABIES, burning them alive and shooting them) or blowing themselves up to get their point across, intentionally taking lives of the innocent. The key word is "INTENTIONALLY"

Some graphic Content involved

Sad thing is I also personally think it's an annoying thing to push ones religion, but a majority of Christians are only doing it as a compassionate thing.
So when all the sleeper cell extremist religions upraise in this country and you and all your non believers (and I don't wish this on you or anyone) are being slaughtered, raped and burned alive, don't come crying to me or ANY OTHER CHRISTIANS. I’ll bet that if this was happening, you would wish it was just some compassionate Christian pushing his beliefs.

Originally posted by mmariebored
"The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness..."--Hitler

This kind of destroys the entire point you’re trying to make. You’re basically saying that instead of a pushy religion of meekness and flabbiness, you would prefer a much more COMPATABLE religion which believes in violence and slaughter of the innocence. Next time you quote a saying in your defense , you may not want to use the quote of a psychotic, sadistic, mass murdering, genocidal piece of ****.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:45 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:46 PM by newagent89

Some Christians believe they are persecuted for the same reason that many people on these forums believe that the government is out to get them. People grow bored with life and invent imaginary struggles.

Christians are persecuted everyday but not in the form that some would like to believe. A Christian might be persecuted when they are ridiculed for sticking up for something that is morally right...

(posters: do not bring up homosexuality and the evangelicals, that has nothing to do with my point).

...They [Christians or other moralists] might be persecuted at the workplace or at school for not going along with making fun of someone. Or refusing to drink or use drugs. It's in sticking up for what is right that Christians find themselves persecuted not some super duper Antichrist.

It's in verbalizing that every human being has inherent worth and dignity. It's in helping out the little guy that we encounter mundane and yet challenging persecution. Yes, Christians were violently persecuted in the past but those days are through for now. At this time, Christians encounter everyday struggles against what is wrong, not events of epic proportions. Still, some Christians want that epic struggle because they want to feel special and in the know.

ps: I would tend not to take Hitler too seriously.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:06 PM by 19DCW71

Originally posted by mmariebored
reply to post by EricD

Did you not read that the whole reason I posted this is because, in another thread, someone was claiming to in fact be a persecuted Christian? Not to mention, I just so happened to have grown up surrounded by Christians who claimed to be persecuted every time someone looked at them funny...
And I just so happened to have lived all over this country, so don't try to insult me by saying it's merely the area. Not everyone is as idiotic as you'd like them to be just because they disagree with you.

You would be referring to me and again, I never said I was a persecuted Christain. You took my words all out of context in my reply to YOUR post in the OTHER thread.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:20 PM by 19DCW71

Originally posted by mmariebored

That was already acknowledged. There are many different types of persecution. The persecution I'm speaking of is the persecution people right here in America are claiming they are suffering just because someone treats them badly. My point is, people are treated badly all over the world, but Christians read in the Bible that they will be oppressed and so every time someone does anything bad to them, they believe it's because they are a Christian.

Again making up words to fit your argument. WhoEVER said anything about America. SHOW ME where.

Also if you want to speak about America and persecution. You must clarify "persecution" because it can range from mistreatment to slaughter, so clarify your view on this topic and we can all clarify our posts instaead of generalizing.

If you mean mistreatment then the entire North America will complain because this country is a bunch of wusses. It truly needs (and will) go back to simplicity and only the strong will and do survive. I waste my time on here as do many of you but the fact is over 90% (my estimate) couldn't survive or have the basic knowledge to try and survive w/out intervening help from who ever it may be.

I can build, grow kil and survive when need be. Question is when Persecution comes are you ganna crawl into a ball waiting for help or make it happen? We're all conditioned to being nothing more than whiny, useless Americans. All segregated by our useless ideals and beliefs. Time to get back to basics.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:34 PM by 19DCW71

reply to post by mmariebored

First off sorry to everyone for all the consecutive posts.

You want to laugh. This thread was started because she claimed I said modern Christians were Persecuted. I said biblical Christians, so I have NO IDEA where she came up with this whole topic.

Maybe she was just looking to PERSECUTE some CHRISTIANS.

Fact is she is doing selective reading or intentionally miswording peoples posts to fit her thread. Don't use me as your scapegoat dear as I am not the person. I may be civil and have A picture of Christ as my avatar but will not let you desicrate my beliefs and the beliefs of MY brethren all on the misconception of your slective reading. This thread should be burned or rather sent to hell fo eternal damnation.

I see the Devil's got you doing his deeds and spreading false info to discredit and continue to attempt to persecute us. Get your facts straight lady.

Please EVERYONE go to this thread and read ALL my posts and replies and see where I said modern Christian persecution. Then i'll shut up and stop posting on this thread. THANKS

Read my replies and see her misinterpretation

edit a mispelling
edit: forget to put link too thread, LOL

edit: mispelled eternal. Damn devil had me doing his deeds as a youth so I only gots me a ninth grade edumacation. LOL

[edit on 6-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 6-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

[edit on 6-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:05 PM by Clearskies

Originally posted by 19DCW71

You want to laugh. This thread was started because she claimed I said modern Christians were Persecuted. I said biblical Christians, so I have NO IDEA where she came up with this whole topic.

Maybe she was just looking to PERSECUTE some CHRISTIANS.

I was wondering where she got the supposed persecution from!
I didn't see it.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:10 PM by NorthWolfe CND

reply to post by EricD

Just a statistical certainty:

- ~70% of Bavarians where, and are, Catholic, ~20% where Protestant; the NSDAT was born in Bavaria, and this was the first German State they managed to win...

- ~80% of the Citizens of other German States, Prussia, Saxony, Ruhr etc, where Protestants...

Thus, if we remove the executed, Jews, Gypsy's, and people with deformities, we see that almost all the executioners where either Christians, or brought up as Christians...

I didn't know this was such a big mystery, being Germany one of the most christianized countries of Europe, and home of the Protestant Reform...

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:15 PM by NorthWolfe CND

reply to post by AshleyD

I did not mean to offend you, or your beliefs, nor do I feel happiness at the murder of anyone.

I just think you put yourself in an indefensible position, the killing if people for their thoughts, or faith.

No religion, or ideology, as a worst track record, in that field, then Christianity...

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:23 PM by 19DCW71

reply to post by Clearskies

Hey Clearskies, how have you been? Tell General T I said hello and still no lick and still pursuing my options regarding the other topic.

As for this one, I also stated how it's funny that people still mock Christians and Christ some 2000 plus years later.

All it comes down to is anti Christian sentiment and that's fine, but what i don't like is that she put words in my mouth.

Peace

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:29 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage

reply to post by 19DCW71

How have people been anti-Christian in this thread? I think people are anti-ignorance, and sometimes the hold religion has on people frustrates them and they get a little snippy about it. Imagine going to college and everyone in one of your classes believes that Santa is real while you got over that belief in second grade? Despite any evidence you produce Santa is real, despite how silly the notion is in general, SANTA IS REAL. And nothing you say or do or present will ever make that classroom stop and go, you know what? Maybe, just maybe I should be more critical of this supposed "Santa" and the origins of "his" story.

Edit: grammar

[edit on 6-10-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 06:34 PM by Clearskies