“Did you know (many) Scientists are afraid of the Bible?”

Originally posted by redhatty

Originally posted by OldThinker
Still...help me out here...who cares if there are different names?

Well YOU do, because your entire premise is based on the passage:

”Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?”

Unless you have a way to PROVE that 'aysh, Kimah, and Kesil are undisputedly referring to the constellations in YOUR quote (those 3 words being the ones in the original language) your entire premise falls on it's ear.

I have already shown you that even the translators don't agree to which constellations are being referred to, yet you doggedly stick to your original premise, ignoring every piece of information I place before you.

My silly truck example just points to the fact that we today use different names...but it's still a truck...

but that's the exact problem, because if Job was MISTRANSLATED, then when you promoted

Orion has an almost perfect straight line, a row of second-magnitude stars about equally spaced. Thru time, however, the two right-hand stars, Mintaka and Alnilam, will approach each other and form a naked-eye double; but the third, Alnitak, will drift away eastward so that the band will no longer exist.

Well, what if in fact, kesil was NOT referring to Orion but rather, Herper, as it is translated in the LXX . Then your whole premise is falsified.

Again, if Kimah was referring to Arcturus and NOT Pleiades, your premise that

God's laws of cosmology are getting rid of the constellation Orion…evidentally and slowly….and…surprise, surprise…every last one of the 250 blazing suns in the Pleiades are ordained of God to orbit together in their symmetrical dancing!

is also struck down.

So in this case, it matters VERY MUCH if it's a Chevy or a Ford. A FACT you are choosing to ignore, even though that it is entire basis of your postulation.

I'm trying here!!!!!! Are you?

No, I do NOT care what the name is...that is the point of the silly truck example...

If the name is different...I DON"T CARE!!!!

I DON"T CARE!!!!!

PLease slow down and read that...

Deep breath...

I can not PROVE, that some translation used different names for the star systems applys here...if that is your argument...feel good about it.

The fact remains...this was said, long before...we humans had the ability...to SEE such things...and Job said it...that is my point...

Thanks for the discussion...

We have beat this horse dead...

I'll try and find some more and you and your boys can pounce...I mean respond

Have a good life...don't think you are ready yet...no need to cut and paste...I'm gonna leave it here...

OT

Originally posted by king9072
Then wise king inquired peacefully to the OldThinker, "how old would you say our planet is?"

"Well King, since I believe everything the bible says, I would have to say that the earth is roughly 6000 years old"

King ponders for a moment before asking "Well, how could that be when Dinosaurs were still roaming the earth 65 million years ago, and life itself existed for hundreds of millions of years before then..."

Oldthinker, looking flustered quickly replies "They put those bones there to test your faith! Now, ... NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG MOVE ALONG!"

[edit on 15-10-2008 by king9072]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by king9072]

Your 'cookie cutter' discourse above wasn't bad...OT enjoyed and laughed...I think you may have a future as a 'fictional' writer...

OT is more concerned with non-fiction...i.e....TRUTH

btw, I do not subscribe to the 6000 yr old earth...

and...

I'm glad you were there...millions of years ago...to KNOW SO MUCH...SO CONFIDENTLY! What's your secret? Green tea? or Botox?

Now seriously..join the discussion...or go back to the October 14th impending doom thread...they need some fiction/character development!

OT

[edit on 15-10-2008 by OldThinker]

yes what is your explination for dino bones? you kind of just avoided that point...

Originally posted by OldThinker

Your 'cookie cutter' discourse above wasn't bad...OT enjoyed and laughed...I think you may have a future as a 'fictional' writer...

OT is more concerned with non-fiction...i.e....TRUTH

btw, I do not subscribe to the 6000 yr old earth...

and...

I'm glad you were there...millions of years ago...to KNOW SO MUCH...SO CONFIDENTLY! What's your secret? Green tea? or Botox?

Now seriously..join the discussion...or go back to the October 14th impending doom thread...they need some fiction/character development!

OT

[edit on 15-10-2008 by OldThinker]

Fictional writer? And wait, let me get this straight an avid bible thumper really believes in NON-FICTION? Are we in the same thread here, you and I?

That's another odd thing about Christianity, it has hundreds of subgroups. It's not even like you all agree on what this book says. And after all, a church divided, is no church at all.

Additionally, something you may find WEIRD about me is that I believe in science, things that can be proven. Obviously you, believing a book with absolutely no proof, are the opposite. But back to science, when you have hundreds of thousands of scientists that agree the age of the world is actually around 4.5 billion years old it's not even a debatable topic anymore. So yes, I do know that there was (lets not even get into dinosaurs) major amounts of life alive 65 million years ago. But NO I wasn't there. Furthermore, your attempts at charm and wit, are completely benign and quite frankly, annoying to read.

I believe its quite clear someone could look at just the last two pages of the this thread, or for giggles read the entire thread - and most of these people would agree your nothing but a troll.

Redhatty, lets quit feeding the troll.

Once again, you resort to personal attacks…it’s a DIVERSION my man!!!

Oh btw, here are some other trolls’s opinions…I’m in good company…

"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955), theoretical physicist, scientific genius (in photograph below)

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."
Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), English physicist, one of the greatest scientists of all time.


"All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more the truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures."
Sir William Herschel (1738-1822), English astronomer, he made numerous discoveries about the laws of the heavens.


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642), astronomer, mathematician, physicist, he constructed the first astronomical telescope


"The glacier was God's great plough . . . set at work ages ago to grind, furrow, and knead over, as it were, the surface of the earth."
Louis Agassiz (1807-1873) Swiss-born U.S. naturalist, geologist, teacher


"Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius."
George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon (1707-1788) French naturalist


"Time was invented by the Almighty God in order to give ideas a chance."
Nicholas Butler (1862-1947) U.S. educator


"Nature is an unlimited broadcasting station, through which God speaks to us every hour, if we only will tune in."
George Washington Carver (1864-1903) U.S. chemist, educator


"The divine spark leaps from the finger of God to the finger of Adam, whether it takes ultimate shape in a law of physics or a law of the land, a poem or a policy, a sonata or a mechanical computer."
Alfred Whitney Griswold (1906-1963) U.S. educator, historian


"God not only plays dice, He also sometimes throws the dice where they cannot be seen."
Stephen Hawking (1942- ) British physicist


"If we find the answer [the unified theory], it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for we would know the mind of God."
Stephen Hawking (1942- ) British physicist


"Every formula which expresses a law of nature is a hymn of praise to God."
Maria Mitchell (1818-1889) U.S. astronomer, educator


"I give myself over to my rapture. I tremble; my blood leaps. God has waited 6000 years for a looker-on to His work."
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) German astronomer


"Every scientific truth goes through three states: first, people say it conflicts with the Bible; next, they say it has been discovered before lastly, then they say they always believed it."
Louis Agassiz (1807-1873) Swiss-born U.S. naturalist, geologist, teacher


“THE GOD OF THIS WORLD, SATAN…HAS BLINDED THE MINDS SO THEY CAN NOT SEE TRUTH!”
Apostle Paul

Originally posted by OldThinker
Once again, you resort to personal attacks…it’s a DIVERSION my man!!!

You HYPOCRITE!!! If you are an example of modern christianity, it is no wonder more and more people are running away from the religion.

YOU, OLD THINKER attacked first

Your 'cookie cutter' discourse above wasn't bad...OT enjoyed and laughed...I think you may have a future as a 'fictional' writer...

I'm glad you were there...millions of years ago...to KNOW SO MUCH...SO CONFIDENTLY! What's your secret? Green tea? or Botox?

You, according to your own rules (biblical) should be first BEGGING forgiveness for your words, and after receiving forgiveness from the one you attacked, pray that YOUR GOD forgives you too.

redhatty, not talking to you bud...

OT


ps: you can read the record of pages for sequential statements, it's all there sir!

[edit on 16-10-2008 by OldThinker]

[edit on 16-10-2008 by OldThinker]

reply to post by OldThinker


And you still try to find a way to justify yourself. Amazing.

what happened to living your christian values? You know turning the other cheek, loving your enemies (perceived or real).

Why? Why would ANYONE listen to someone "talk the talk" who shows clearly that they don't "walk the walk"?

And yet... you somehow can find a justification for your own actions. Utterly amazing.

reply to post by redhatty


redhatty/king,

This thread is about the relationship between science and the bible...

The (banned) sarcasm and the cutdowns left on these pages are a distraction to the discussion...

As the OP I welcome your thoughts and opinions...by nature there will be disagreements...that is OK with me...

May we please get back on track? Seriously man...I posted some quite brilliant leaders earlier speaking of the linkages between faith and science...

If you would like to continue, please do...any thoughts on the quotes?

OT...

OK...back to the thread...

For those interested…here’s another!!!

Hubble said the universe is expanding…at an increasingly fast pace...

So OT hits the reverse button, meaning…just follow the INVERSE of the expansion. And where do we end up? Well for the details you can read him…the theory is consistent with what the Bible starts out by saying, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). …a "beginning" to the universe.

It should be noted that in Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew word for "created" ("bara") means a "creation from nothing," as something is brought into existence. A start from nothing…Stephen Hawking calls this "singularity," which is the starting-point of the Big Bang. ---A singularity is: all the potential mass (matter), energy, and dimensions (including time) of the cosmos, reduced down to an infinitely small point of ZERO volume.

OT checked out Hebrews 11:3 "the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." The original starting-point for the universe was invisible, and had zero volume --just as the Bible teaches... as no other ancient writing does.

The big C’s teach that matter, 3-dimensional space, and even time itself virtually did not exist before the Big Bang; (when OT surmizes God created them).

Moving backwards in the new testament OT read 1Corinthians 2:7, 2Timothy 1:9, and Titus 1:2 indicate that time itself, with all its eons and ages, had a "beginning." ---NO other ancient literature (besides the Bible) states that time had a beginning…dude that’s awesome!

At this ‘beginning’ the Good Book continues…

"God alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea" (Job 9:8);

"He stretches out the heavens like a tent" (Psalm 104:2);

"He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isa. 40:22)

"the Lord your Maker, who stretched out the heavens" (Isa. 51:13);

Did you catch the consistency??

God …………..stretched………. the heavens out in the past, and some of those verses declare that He still "stretches" the universe out today!

So let’s review…
1) Out of nothing!
2) Stretching out!

“When were these written, OT?”

“Not sure scholars say 1500 BC?”.

“Wow, that’s sure before Hubble!”

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
yes what is your explination for dino bones? you kind of just avoided that point...

A-ATS Dude?

Just saw your post...sorry I didn't get back with you?

What was the dino discussion/question I should answer?

Thanks for the post man...

OT honored!

Originally posted by OldThinker

I find it amusing you'd quote a man claiming science a more special religion then that of someone more naive.. read Albert Einstein's quote again, and now understand what he's implying

"All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more the truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures."
Sir William Herschel (1738-1822), English astronomer, he made numerous discoveries about the laws of the heavens.

If he would have lived in those ancient times, he might have been part of a priesthood, somewhere in Sumeria, dedicated to observing the movements and peculiaritys of the celestial bodys. (centurys before the Bible was ever imagined.)

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642), astronomer, mathematician, physicist, he constructed the first astronomical telescope

Interestingly, he uttered those words while being prosecuted by the Pope when he defended his theory about the 'wild and absurd' theory the Earth revolved around the Sun, and not vice versa. Yes sir, some scientists have cause indeed to be afraid of the Bible.. or rather, of those who would wield it to establish dogmatic thinking!

"Every scientific truth goes through three states: first, people say it conflicts with the Bible; next, they say it has been discovered before lastly, then they say they always believed it."
Louis Agassiz (1807-1873) Swiss-born U.S. naturalist, geologist, teacher

Sounds to me like he states that every Empirical thruth is allways opposed by the Church at first. Odd, no, since they have this all powerfull book containing wisdom of the ancients ? /sarcasm

“THE GOD OF THIS WORLD, SATAN…HAS BLINDED THE MINDS SO THEY CAN NOT SEE TRUTH!”
Apostle Paul

yup, and he has a lot of them thinking they are religious, too..

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Phatcat]

reply to post by Phatcat


Phatcat,

Thanks for the reply...hope you are having a good day..

Any thoughts on the "out of nothing" and "stretching' post?

Have you had time to see the beginning pages?

Again, appreciate your input

OT out...

[edit on 16-10-2008 by OldThinker]

It wasn't my first, but it will be my last on this thread.

You don't even make an effort to discuss what I said, then dance away and ask me if I'd care to respond to gaseous theorizing on garbage so open to interpretation it just hàs to be religious..

When others ask you questions you don't have a dogmatic answer for, you bluntly ignore them or just answer with some irellevant nonsense/ insults. You need to recognize this as rejection of any proof contrary to your world views to your mind. Brainwashed.

Btw, refering to yourself in the third tense is symptomatic of some truly worrying mental ailments. Do you think you are Royalty or God himself?
(If this is considered a personal attack, please remove it, mods.. it's just something that's been itching all thread long. The arrogance that seeps from it smells bad indeed.

What was that tree called again that started all our problems according to biblical mythology ?

The tree of knowledge. Think about that when you picture your god as benevolent, that he'd kick out his 'most beloved creation' for the crime of knowing things. So science and religion allways have been incompatible.

And knowledge can be damning indeed, you might have to step out of the little comfy cocoon you weaved for yourself

Have a nice life, peace with your God and all, if I where you I'd stay away from this thread though, maybe something would find a little crack in your programming and corrupt your soul with knowledge.

I'm also calling you a Troll, and I'll stop feeding you.

reply to post by Phatcat



No, just being kind...

I was working on another post...during this time...

Just wanted to check in with you first...while I was putting another one together...

It will be the next post...

I finished it...and I'll get back to yours...ok?

OT

“Have you driven an ‘Entropy’ lately?”

“OT? Is that Ford’s new car?”

“No, it’s the 2nd LAW of Thermodynamics…yes it’s true…all physicals…ordered systems tend to become more disorganized, and also to lose energy in the form of heat, and to slow down…over time. It’s a LAW..proven..not a theory…

“OT, are you saying that everything gets old and wears out?”

Yep, that reality of this randomness, disorder, and cooling is called "Entropy." And you know this physical LAW was written many many years ago…probably 1000BC-ish. The scriptures speaking of God say…

"In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end" (Psalm 102:25-27).”

Wow OT did it say that all ‘wears out’…

Yeah…here’s another one…it’s true of space too..we know that stars burn out, right? This “heat-death” occurs. The Apostle Paul expressed it this way…

"For the creation was subjected to frustration ...in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay..." (Romans 8:20-21).

Wow OT the Bible is ahead of the curve again…you think maybe the Red Sox will be ahead of the Rays curve ball tonight? Smile!


[edit on 16-10-2008 by OldThinker]

reply to post by Phatcat


Phatcat, Your post regarding the quotes I had posted earlier DO SHOW a good job of highlighting the conflict between the church and science...

Sir. you have no argument with me...IT was a good post!

Again thanks...

OT

PS: Does that help? May I be courteous with you?

Originally posted by Phatcat


You don't even make an effort to discuss what I said, then dance away and ask me if I'd care to respond to gaseous theorizing on garbage so open to interpretation it just hàs to be religious..

Please see my other post...I was away for a bit...why are you so angry or am I reading you wrong?

When others ask you questions you don't have a dogmatic answer for, you bluntly ignore them or just answer with some irellevant nonsense/ insults. You need to recognize this as rejection of any proof contrary to your world views to your mind. Brainwashed.

What have I ignored? If I have it was an oversight? Please let me know and I'll do my best ok?


I'm also calling you a Troll, and I'll stop feeding you.

?????

troll?

definition..."any of a race of supernatural beings, living or hiding underground or in caves"

Who's hiding? These posts are on the internet, right?

I live in a house!

I'm not super-natural! BUT I KNOW ONE!!!!

Moderators, no need to remove Phatcat's post..we will get through this

Seriously, I respect all my allies in this thread, but honestly QUIT FEEDING THE DAMN TROLL HES A COMPLETE HYPROCRITICAL, BLABBERING, TOOL!

Theres no point, like I have said MULTIPLE times before in this thread, it does not matter what you present he will always counter with inane quotes and pointless rhetoric. QUIT FEEDING HIM, THIS THREAD HAS TO DIE!

Mods please, the OP is off his rocker, this thread is going no where and if you guys are so concerned about precious bandwidth and protect it by deleting one liners and excessive quotes, then do yourselves a favor and delete this entire thread its not even a discussion. After all we are on a discussion forum right? How come 98% of the people in this thread are talking to a wall, and OT is dancing around like a fairy spewing irrelevant quotes and dodging questions he can't confront.

END THE MADNESS!!!! PLEEEASSSEEE

I am new to this board and my native language is not english, so excuse any mistakes please.
So: Hello *g*

Well, on the subject. These kind of threads actually inspired me to make an account here and that i am personally researching for a long time. The fact that former colonies in the world are mass controlled by religions from europe.

Here is another example of how some people took the romans too seriously. They were just trying to unit their folks and the former colonies are seriously thinking, its an religion.
Of course, europeans had that too...about...500 years ago.

Surely they have religion, but no one actually takes that fairy tales serious. I wonder what happened to America, North and South, being so sadly manipulated by some guys who were just making politics 2000 years ago.

I am so very much sad about american people, ever explaining "to be saved by Jesus", "to accept Jesus", "that everyone will go to hell (especially Moslems and asian theologies)", "that only Jesus can save anybody"...Who put this mindset into their brains?
Sadly, it was us...us europeans.

We have to apologize for all this. There was never such a guy in history called Jesus. The romans were setting it all up, based on a nice astronomical based religion actually used by kind of all folks on earth dedicated to the sun.
They had their purposes back then. The church had their purposes in the middle age (very dark times) and in Germany and Austria it was actually Hitler who invented the "church taxes" (only to be paid by religious people).

Religion was ever, officially back then, and hidden now, meant as a political mean. To control divided masses, to get money, to get opinion and also to form alliances against other religions, that were also created.

Unfortunately human beings are not very well blessed with their brain output so mostly of them cannot figure why there are different religion according to continents or races. They even never think about it, because their mind is so controlled about what to think.

Humankind can never be one, as long as there are religions, which were created for us to never be united as one brotherhood of human beings, loving and helping each other. It was all the purpose. The romans never knew what they could do when they wrote the new testament, but we know that the Vatican did to this...totally mind controlled people.

The whole current stuff about "terrorist islamic groups" could only have been worked in America, thats why it happened there, because Americans are religious about that. Talk about a religion and the americans will believe it and fight it.

I dont want to offense anyone but America is very much lost, because of its brainwashed society. Nothing and no one will help them. They are lost by their own decisions, their governments, their wars and their poor intelligence.

I have to be honest with them, we dont miss it. Muslims, whom of them walk among with us across europe, are far more peaceful that Americans, who were fighting lots of big wars in 200 years. Soldiers are abroard all the time.
As a leader it would be nice thing. Tell them you are christian and the enemies are not and millions will follow you.

Sorry for that i will not miss anyone over there, although I know there are nice people among them. But it simply taken out all of humanity just because of 300 million people thinking they're being "saved by Jesus" by killing others.

Just my oponion. Sorry for bad english. I am not a native english speaker.
America needs to wake up real soon about these subjects. Remember, Europeans have all set it up for what you really think is an "religion"....it is the truth.