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“Did you know (many) Scientists are afraid of the Bible?”

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posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Old Man
 


If you can find in the bible a prediction about a scientific theory that has not yet been discovered, and then confirm it to be true (empirically) then that would make the bible a great scientific resource.

Otherwise, it is not.

Now, if I was afraid of the bible I would not throw out this challenge. Can the bible stand up to it? Can you do that with the bible? What does the bible say about life in other planets? what does it say about super string theory? Does it say anything about whether we will find evidence of the Higgs field?

Are scientists any more afraid of the bible than they are afraid of Tarot cards or other non-experiential methods of knowledge gathering? Not as far as I can tell.

The biggest problem with non-experiential methods of knowledge gathering is that they by definition deny the possibility of experiential (empirical) confirmation or testing. If something "is true" but cannot be tested, then, "hey, anything is possible" but it does not contribute to any body of practically useful knowledge. Now if you can confirm the knowledge empirically, then you might as well disregard the non-experiential source, because empirical testing is the ultimate measure by which one can judge knowledge that can be passed along to others for practical use. That's why a book that tells you something you can already find out by testing empirically is kind of useless as a scientific resource.

So, if you can find confirmation on the bible for scientific theories discovered by other means (like the scientific method, or experiential methods) but only *after the fact* that does not help in any way does it? hindsight is always 20/20.

On the other hand, as a historical resource the bible is rich with information that is worthy of evaluation. but history and science are different subjects.

-rrr




posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by thegrayone
It's just funny how he embraces the bible, like there were no other older documents more accurate than the bible.

The bible is a copy (the old testament and most likely as history book, not a religious one) of other older books, like the Sumerian Tablets.

Now, the bible doesn't speak about the Asians and the Mayan, does that mean that they didn't know anything. The Mayan worshiped other Gods, does that mean they are wrong?

Your God should be Gods, in plural, since the original word for God was Elohim/Alohim, which meant the Gods. Some where along the line, probably Constantine, not sure, decided that there was only ONE God and that Christianity was the right religion because he saw a cross in the sky (a cross, something that has NOTHING to do with Christianity or religion once so ever) and God spoke to him, giving, in the process, christianity the upper hand. Now we have different versions of the bible, which have been adjusted to fit the religion.

Of course, we have other cultures with their respective religions and bibles (bible only means a group of book put together for religious purpose) but since they don't have THE BIBLE, their religion and believes are wrong and myths, right?

So, are scientist afraid of the bible? YES... I know I am, because the bible has been killing, manipulating, controlling and holding people back to reach their true potential.


[edit on 10/10/2008 by thegrayone]




Thegrayone, Hope you had a good day…OT did…here’s an answer…to each of your paragraphs…please know I WILL answer you (in time)….no ducking here…I’m just a busy dude…with multiple responsibilities…I’m sure LIKE U!

Point 1-I am sure there are other older documents, that are accurate, but I do esteem the bible a higher authority when it comes to faith, religion, etc

Point 2-All books are ‘copies’ right? What is your point there? Why do you feel the Old Testament is just historical?

Point 3-Yes, I am sure the Asians and Mayans knew some things…just don’t like the human sacrifice thing!

Point 4-the Old Testament says ‘God is One’…versions written and verified ‘ before’ the AD timeframe.

See… opentheword.org...

Also… www.christianity.co.nz...

And… www.biblicaldefense.org...

Dude, pls don’t ignore, ok?

Also Note: The campaign into Israel by Pharaoh Shishak (1 Kings 14:25-26) is recorded on the walls of the Temple of Amun in Thebes, Egypt.
• The revolt of Moab against Israel (2 Kings 1:1; 3:4-27) is recorded on the Mesha Inscription.
• The fall of Samaria (2 Kings 17:3-6, 24; 18:9-11) to Sargon II, king of Assyria, is recorded on his palace walls.
• The defeat of Ashdod by Sargon II (Isaiah 20:1) is recorded on his palace walls.
• The campaign of the Assyrian king Sennacherib against Judah (2 Kings 18:13-16) is recorded on the Taylor Prism.
• The siege of Lachish by Sennacherib (2 Kings 18:14, 17) is recorded on the Lachish reliefs.
• The assassination of Sennacherib by his own sons (2 Kings 19:37) is recorded in the annals of his son Esarhaddon.
• The fall of Nineveh as predicted by the prophets Nahum and Zephaniah (2:13-15) is recorded on the Tablet of Nabopolasar.
• The fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:10-14) is recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles.
• The captivity of Jehoiachin, king of Judah, in Babylon (2 Kings 24:15-16) is recorded on the Babylonian Ration Records.
• The fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians (Daniel 5:30-31) is recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.
• The freeing of captives in Babylon by Cyrus the Great (Ezra 1:1-4; 6:3-4) is recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.

Point 5-The Bible is the least in variety of any older documents compared to the number of copies in existence…Homer and Shakespeare have many more versions comparatively.

Why do you persist in being closed-minded ?

You can have your opinion, no big deal to me…may I? I believe one day you will be glad we conversed…granted my recent posts have been a bit heavy…even preachy…I apologize if I have offended…it’s only done out of concern.

OT out!



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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I’m sorry but what...........................?

So you’re saying heaven is outer-space?



Thank you for the question... OT has come to the conclusion there are more than one 'HEAVEN'...

please see these links...

your thoughts?

OT

Here they are...

www.biblestudy.org...


www.gotquestions.org...



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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No, the scientists are only speaking of the stars and constellations. I am denying the premise that the book of Job ever referred to the stars/constellations that they have now been revised to refer to.

No one know for sure what the hebrew words were referring to, the translation of them has been changed from the meaning of the actual word to the meaning that makes sense to the translators (and their agenda)


Hebrew is Hebrew…Greek is Greek…words are words…other sources were written using these languages throughout history…

To summarize this post … its like Clinton saying, “ it depends upon what is ‘is’??

A big fat DIVERSION, bro!

He lost his practicing license…I hope you don’t lose more!

What is up with this? OT doesn't want to put you on the spot here.............U2U me. ok????



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by rickyrrr
 


rrr, Thank you for your thoughts...very wise, indeed!

I have presented numerous examples...you are going to have to look....it's a long thread, sorry...of the OLD TESTAMENT, thru inference....detailing a number of scientific discovery's....found out and validated a few thousand yrs later...

I would be interested in your opinion...

Definitely...the Bible is NO scientific book....nor does it set out to be...yet its discourse adhears to many truths inreality that took us humans many yrs later to 'discover'

Please let OT know after you have reviewed my posts, ok?

Thank you sir!

OT



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by Pockets
 


I dont think many may be right....could be alot, maybe some. There are many scientists who believe in God and many who are Christian. Yes for most of his life even Darwin, check it out on a site about em. Link has a list of many important scientists who I wouldnt consider weak minded , foolish or brainwashed who believe.

www.adherents.com...


Would also state that people should know there is alot of answers in the new testament. In the new testament is where salvation was given to us gentiles. I recently found some very good verses that explained gentiles (anyone not a jew) old religion and how now we "gentiles" are given the word of God and salvation as a testament against those of the jewish faith who denied Christ. Will try to find those specific verses and post them as I had trouble with understanding how people who never heard of our God and Jesus fit into everything. Even if you choose not to believe there is quite alot of interesting revelations in the new testament and it will not brain wash you just to read it.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by savagediver
 


Hey man!!!

Thanks for your post...

Welcome!!!!

Please let the skeptics know the Bible is explained in this thread...and they can find a WARM place to discuss, dialog...and we will learn together!

OT out!



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Ironclad
 


Ironclad,

You are SO right!!!

We are to reach out to others...not ourselves...

Thanks so much for your words...great post!

OT

I love this verse, because it supports your post... "Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself." Philippians 2:3.




posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. Gen 2:5

Yea, now that is real scientific! Man was here before plants sprouted - and seems like it had not rained before man, because he wasn't here yet to "cultivate things."




[edit on 8-10-2008 by whatsup]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by whatsup
 


whatsup,

WHATSUP!!!!!

OT havin' a bit of a struggle understanding your post...one more time ok? Give it a go please...

Seeya!



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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The Bible can be bent and twisted and interpreted many different ways. I thought it was common knowledge that religion as we've known it was obsolete in our modern technological world, where we are able to find more and more of the answers that the Bible and other religions were created for?

How many denominations of "Christianity" are there? "A church divided is no church at all?"

I'd like to hear the OPs comments on Palin saying that the war in Iraq is "God's plan?" We're to fear Radical Islamic Terrorists but pretend there is no such thing as a Radical Christian ideology(I'm talking to you, Bible Belt and the "far rights or lefts or however we're dividing ourselves these days")? Allah is the Islamic word for the supernatural being "God," so aren't we all fighting for the same dude? Why would this supernatural omnipotent being allow his children to kill EACHOTHER, both sides fighting for HIM?

Religion has done WAY more harm than good. According to the Bible, life is rather important, no? Then why take life in the name of religion, ever? Wouldn't this make God an angry and merciless God? Why do so many suffer in this world? If you ask me, God is a dick if he's watching over us to make sure we dont steal, curse, cheat on our wives or husbands etc etc while thousands of men, women and children die every day for no logical reason at all?

Love thy enemy?

Hate the sin not the sinner?

Not to mention modern religious zealots break at least 1 of the ten commandments every single day?

Why do churches need so much money when their purpose is only to spread the word of God? Unless it's not their purpose?

Any thoughts on "history is written by the victors?"

Any thoughts on the multiple, and many, re-writings of the Bible and the many mistranslations that go along with it? Council of Nicaea (sp?), King James?

I could go on for days with questions but I'd love to hear some answers to just a few of these!

As far as the "content" of the original posts, like I said, if I really wanted to I could bend words and insert my own meanings here and there to fit my accounts and idea of history.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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The bible has to be a fantastic book ,because it is historical.BUT is it totally correct? This book made up of 66 books written by over 40 people over a span of many 100,s of years,having been translated many times, the apocrypha (spelling?) was left out because apparently not inspired from god.
If the bible is true ,and many wish it to be ,then we must believe in the truth of what rings true, and lots of it does not. If god wants people to believe what he says,then it is useless to say it is ok for god to do things which i command you not to, ie, do not kill (murder) and then in samual 1 15,tell saul to kill the amelikites, men, women, children and babies.
We read about king david look at his faults,also his son soloman a very wealthy man with many wives??,the poor paid all their taxes to the king, he spent what he wanted on what he wanted to give him the pleasures of life.
Yes we do want truth ,(truth will set you free) but for the majority we rely on education ??? governments, religions and commerce to satisfy all the peoples of the worlds needs, is this being done in truth ?????
When we are young we are ignorant (also many of us who are old) we all have LIFE in common, let us come together in one in unity as we approach these world problems, people are more important than profit (who says different????) destroy hatred among us and give out love, our priorities need to change, and it is not going to be these evangelists (send me your dollars and we will give you life in heaven hallaluyah???)
The world is changing ,some for the better,some for the worse,. It is changing from the levels of the people NOT from those who are in charge.
It is changing NOWWWWWWWWWWWW and picking up momentum and we will add to it,and so grow and grow,we are changing with our attitudes towards that which is going on around us.
Just open your eyes and hearts.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Hebrew is Hebrew…Greek is Greek…words are words…other sources were written using these languages throughout history…

A big fat DIVERSION, bro!

What is up with this? OT doesn't want to put you on the spot here.............U2U me. ok????

No diversion, just fact. Apparently you did not read my post well, so I'll refresh your memory


Reverend Doctor Adam Clarke wrote in his Commentary

that 'Aish has been generally understood to signify the Great Bear; Kesil Orion; and Kimah the Pleiades, may be seen everywhere; but that they do signify these constellations is perfectly uncertain. We have only conjectures concerning their meaning.

As to the Hebrew words, they might as well have been applied to any of the other constellations of heaven; indeed, it does not appear that constellations at all are meant.
And the Catholic Encyclopedia says:

The uranography of the Jews is fraught with perplexity. Some half-dozen star-groups are named in the Scriptures, but authorities differ widely as to their identity. In a striking passage the Prophet Amos (v, 8) glorifies the Creator as "Him that made Kimah and Kesil", rendered in the Vulgate as Arcturus and Orion. Now Kimah certainly does not mean Arcturus. The word, which occurs twice in the Book of Job (ix, 9; xxxviii, 31), is treated in the Septuagint version as equivalent to Pleiades. This, also, is the meaning given to it in the Talmud and throughout Syrian literature; it is supported by etymological evidences, the Hebrew term being obviously related to the Arabic root kum (accumulate), and the Assyrian kamu (to bind); while the "chains of Kimah", referred to in the sacred text, not inaptly figure the coercive power imparting unity to a multiple object. The associated constellation Kesil is doubtless no other than our Orion. Yet, in the first of the passages in Job where it figures, the Septuagint gives Herper; in the second, the Vulgate quite irrelevantly inserts Arcturus; Karstens Niebuhr (1733-1815) understood Kesil to mean Sirius; Thomas Hyde (1636-1703) held that it indicated Canopus. Now kesil signifies in Hebrew "impious", adjectives expressive of the stupid criminality which belongs to the legendary character of giants; and the stars of Orion irresistibly suggest a huge figure striding across the sky.


You see, even people who study the book for a living are not sure what is meant by Kimah and Kesil and 'aysh

The word for "Pleadies" literally is "heap" or "herd". The word for "Orion" is literally "fool".

in Amos 5:8
the KJV calls "the seven stars" and "Orion"; but the Brenton's LXX calls "all things"; and the Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Arcturus" and "Orion"

in Job 9:9
he KJV calls "Arcturus," "Orion," "Pleiades," and "the chambers of the south";
but the Brenton's LXX calls "Pleias", "Hesperus", "Arcturus", and "the chambers of the south"; and the Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Arcturus", "Orion", "Hyades", and "the inner parts of the south"

in Job 38:31-32
the KJV calls "Pleiades", "Orion", "Mazzaroth", "Arcturus", and "the sons of Arcturus"; but the Brenton's LXX calls "Pleiades", "Orion", "Mazuroth", "the evening star" and "the rays of the evening star"; and The Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Pleiades", "Arcturus", "the day star", "the evening star", "the children of the earth"

See, even the translators can't agree, nor are they sure exactly what was being referred to. For example, the following objects are not identical as would be required for all three translations to be faithful to the autographs: Pleiades and Arcturus, Orion and Venus (Hesperus, evening star), Pleiades and Hyades, Orion and Arcturus, Arcturus and Venus (the evening star), stars near Arcturus (sons) and the rays of Venus (evening star), constellations / zodiac (assuming Mazzaroth means something like that) and Venus (the day star).

So I stand by my original answer,

I am denying the premise that the book of Job ever referred to the stars/constellations that they have now been revised to refer to.

No one know for sure what the hebrew words were referring to, the translation of them has been changed from the meaning of the actual word to the meaning that makes sense to the translators (and their agenda)



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 



In your cut and paste you left out out the MOST important line I said...

So here it is again...

To summarize this (next) post … its like Clinton saying, “ it depends upon what is ‘is’??





posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


If by "IT" you mean 'aysh, kesil and kimah - then yes. But neither you nor I have the ability to jump into the author of the book of Job's head to know EXACTLY what he was referring to.

The rest is conjecture.

Even the biblical scholars agree that constellations are being referred to, WHICH constellations is anyone's guess. Just because some translator some years ago decided that Job meant "this" does not in fact mean that Job meant "this".

There is a long proven history of scripture being manipulated to forward an agenda. This is just one of the examples.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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OK...I am trying to get your point....


Chapter 28-Young Literal Translation…
31-Dost thou bind sweet influences of Kimah? Or the attractions of Kesil dost thou open?
32-Dost thou bring out Mazzaroth in its season? And Aysh for her sons dost thou comfort?
33-Hast thou known the statutes of heaven? Or dost thou appoint Its dominion in the earth?

= = = = = =

Chapter 28:-Darby Translation…
31-Canst thou fasten the bands of the Pleiades, or loosen the cords of Orion?
32-Dost thou bring forth the constellations each in its season? or dost thou guide the Bear with her sons?
33-Knowest thou the ordinances of the heavens? dost thou determine their rule over the earth?

Different translations...different names for the star systems...DO NOT...a nullification...of my argument make!

What's a '4 by 4'?

What's a 'Chevy'?

What's a 'GM'?

What's a 'Silverado'?

Could there by four different things?

Well...let's see... sfbay.craigslist.org...

SAME THING!!

DIFFERENT NAMES!!

STILL A ONE TRUCK!!!

Same Bible verse and truth!!!

OT (prefers Ford's, oh well)



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty

Well, I looked into some commentary on this one...

...So these 2 sources basically say, that "Job" could have been talking about any constellation...



????

Different names....

Same truth...

OT out!



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


ImaNutter,

Here's my first response...please listen to the audio...ok?

Here's a portion...for your review...

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

PRAY>>>PRAY>>> PRAY...that it IS God's Plan!!!


Should not we all (prayers, that is) pray for our leaders?

Should we not pray that their actions...IS GOD'S PLAN?

that is right?????

I know I DO!

As to your other '21 questions' OT doesn't know if he has time to answer your 'Katie Couric catcha stuff' ?????????

Maybe I will, but obviously you ALREADY got 'RESPONSES' in the bank...

???????

Right?????

OT was definitely born at night....

BUT NOT LAST NIGHT!!!!!!!!!








[edit on 9-10-2008 by OldThinker]

[edit on 9-10-2008 by OldThinker]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by rickyrrr
 


rrr, Thank you for your thoughts...very wise, indeed!

I have presented numerous examples...you are going to have to look....it's a long thread, sorry...of the OLD TESTAMENT, thru inference....detailing a number of scientific discovery's....found out and validated a few thousand yrs later...

I would be interested in your opinion...

Definitely...the Bible is NO scientific book....nor does it set out to be...yet its discourse adhears to many truths inreality that took us humans many yrs later to 'discover'

Please let OT know after you have reviewed my posts, ok?

Thank you sir!

OT

I very much have to disagree while agreeing to a point. You see making the assumption that the biblical authors knew things that have only been discovered in the last 500 odd years is a bit of a faux pas.

Just look at the pyramids and other such ancient monuments like the trilithon at Baalbeck (note the name Baal), we in the modern age STILL cannot figure out how these structures were erected. It just goes to show that the ancient peoples weren't that stupid when it comes to technology, mathematics, physical principles, astronomy etc etc etc.

So to assume Job et al were some sort of superheroes gets a bit lost in translation when taken into context on an ancient worldly scale especially when considering that most occurred before the hebrews even existed.

However what we find is that due to religion (christianity being one of the main culprits - burning of Library of Alexandria, Spanish conquest of the New World, the Dark Ages etc etc) that this ancient knowledge has been destroyed and maybe lost forever.

Therefore insisting that the bible is the source originator makes me laugh especially considering that the OT and NT are based on other religions and cultural beliefs.


G



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by shihulud
 


Hey S,

How go's...?

If my grammar implied/said/directed these OT guys KNEW some things BEFORE modern society...I'm sorry...

That is no what I meant...

These guys wrote the inspired WORD OF GOD....way way back in the day....probably did not understand all the were writing...Job for example, in repeating God's word to him, during a discussion....

what i am saying is WE can draw from the words...principles, etc....that eventually show up to the scientific mind...

That's all...

edit: spelling



[edit on 9-10-2008 by OldThinker]




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