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“Did you know (many) Scientists are afraid of the Bible?”

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posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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To all responders…thanks for contributing…OT’s got more…

Here’s another one for the readers review.

Did you know that medical principles were in the old testament too??

Yes, just review the journals of medicine written in the last 50 years. You can find study after study on the relationship between words, emotions, our immune system, our skeletal health, and longevity. The Bible recognized nearly 3000 years ago that kind words and laughter are good for health!

Yes, laughter releases chemicals into our system that promotes wellness. I’m no Doctor, but OT reads fairly well…

Let’s see what the Good Book SAID…back in the day...

"A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22

"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24

Skeptic, hey…there is more to this book than meets the eye…why don’t you give it another 'look?'

OT out (stay tuned for more!)




posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Ok, just because you have chosen to hold the bible in a higher authority than any other, older book doesn't make it true, even when it comes to faith.

The old testament is a copy of other older books, it was fixed to fit the story of its religion, hence God is one.

One day I will be glad that we conversed???? I AM GLAD right now, not because your words will convert me or prove anything ( my family have this kind of conversation with me every week and nothing has change) but any one that takes the time to converse, period, I'm glad about that.

Events being recorded on the old testament?? yes, I just said that the old testament is just another volume or copy of other books. I give the OT some historical validity based on that. The Egyptians (just like every other culture in the world) and Sumerian ALSO worshiped other gods for thousands of years and ALSO recorded their local events.

You know what's very funny to me? It's funny how your god created humanity but it only became popular 2 thousand years ago with the birth of the unproven Jesus.
Of course, your god created humanity according to the BIBLE, and that makes all the difference, right?

Speaking about human sacrifice thing, just how you put it, You do know how Christianity came to be,right? How many people they killed, or have to be sacrificed, to impose its religion and god,right? How many books they burned so the other truth wouldn't be known,right? Christianity had no regards nor respect for human life if they didn't believe the same thing. So, your bible, religion is based on human blood, built on human blood; and became so powerful thanks to human blood...I call that HUMAN SACRIFICE as well.

I have my opinion, yes, and you have yours. At no moment I have denied you of yours nor I will intend to.
You have not offended me in the minimum because your belief only applies to you and those who believe the same; just like mine applies to me and so.

If I have offended you, your persona, I am sorry. If I have offended your god ( I don't think that is possible because he/she doesn't exist) I apologize as well.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by ImaNutter
 


ImaNutter,

Here's my first response...please listen to the audio...ok?

Here's a portion...for your review...

"That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

PRAY>>>PRAY>>> PRAY...that it IS God's Plan!!!

Should not we all (prayers, that is) pray for our leaders?

Should we not pray that their actions...IS GOD'S PLAN?

that is right?????

I know I DO!


See unfortunately that is an opinionated question/statement, as it depends on what is true and what isn't. So no one can truly say with certainty that it is wrong or right. In my opinion, I would hope dearly God's plan is NOT to kill ~4,200 young Americans (~4000 since George W. said "Mission Accomplished"), wound ~31,000 young Americans, and kill 151,000 Iraqis. I pray that these actions END and wish they had never happened, and question such a being, if there is one, that wishes that upon humanity.

And when I say it depends what's true or not, I'm talking about God that no one can prove or disprove. Obviously if there is no God it doesn't make much sense to pray to him...



As to your other '21 questions' OT doesn't know if he has time to answer your 'Katie Couric catcha stuff' ?????????

Maybe I will, but obviously you ALREADY got 'RESPONSES' in the bank...

???????

Right?????

OT was definitely born at night....

BUT NOT LAST NIGHT!!!!!!!!!


1 - I'm not Katie Couric
2 - You have Google, the Bible, and all the take home books and notes and anything else you want to use to answer my questions so by definition none of it is "catcha."
3 - And no, I don't GOT no preset responses, these are questions that I have in regards to religion that I haven't had answered that KEEP ME from accepting the idea there is a supernatural being staring down at as while we kill each other...
4 - I was born in the morning and you didn't answer any of my questions... (except quoting Palin but that still didn't get to my intent of the question, that somehow we are to accept this God guy is caring, compassionate, yet blood thirsty? And somehow Christian America always believes he's on our side, not those who are in the actual place where the Bible has its roots? (The Middle East))

Seriously, I'm open for discussion but apparently you are not...



[edit on 13-10-2008 by ImaNutter]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


ok, I'm open, too. I'll look into them...

OT



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


ok, I'm open, too. I'll look into them...

OT



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by thegrayone
 


OT's a bit torn here, part of me wants to leave you to your (dis)beliefs...another part thinks there's hope, because of some faithful family members...l'm gonna sleep on this one...

Just got out of a sad funeral and l'm tired.

Good day!



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by OldThinker
 


If by "IT" you mean 'aysh, kesil and kimah - then yes. But neither you nor I have the ability to jump into the author of the book of Job's head to know EXACTLY what he was referring to.

The rest is conjecture.

Even the biblical scholars agree that constellations are being referred to, WHICH constellations is anyone's guess. Just because some translator some years ago decided that Job meant "this" does not in fact mean that Job meant "this".

There is a long proven history of scripture being manipulated to forward an agenda. This is just one of the examples.


redhatty,

you out there?

OT did reply....right?

Do you have a response??????

OT waiting!



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I'm here OT

Your reply was a non reply. I stated

in Amos 5:8
the KJV calls "the seven stars" and "Orion"; but the Brenton's LXX calls "all things"; and the Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Arcturus" and "Orion"

in Job 9:9
he KJV calls "Arcturus," "Orion," "Pleiades," and "the chambers of the south";
but the Brenton's LXX calls "Pleias", "Hesperus", "Arcturus", and "the chambers of the south"; and the Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Arcturus", "Orion", "Hyades", and "the inner parts of the south"

in Job 38:31-32
the KJV calls "Pleiades", "Orion", "Mazzaroth", "Arcturus", and "the sons of Arcturus"; but the Brenton's LXX calls "Pleiades", "Orion", "Mazuroth", "the evening star" and "the rays of the evening star"; and The Douay Rheims Vulgate calls "Pleiades", "Arcturus", "the day star", "the evening star", "the children of the earth"

See, even the translators can't agree, nor are they sure exactly what was being referred to. For example, the following objects are not identical as would be required for all three translations to be faithful to the autographs: Pleiades and Arcturus, Orion and Venus (Hesperus, evening star), Pleiades and Hyades, Orion and Arcturus, Arcturus and Venus (the evening star), stars near Arcturus (sons) and the rays of Venus (evening star), constellations / zodiac (assuming Mazzaroth means something like that) and Venus (the day star).


regarding Amos 5:8, the seven stars is not the same as Arcturus so which is right?
Regarding Job 9:9, Arcturus is not Pleias, nor is Orion Hesperus, nor is Pleiades Arcturus or Hyades, so which one is right?
regarding Job 38:31-32, Orion is not Arcturus, Mazzaroth is not the day star and the sons of Arcturus is not the evening star, which one is right?

Your rebuttal was

Different translations...different names for the star systems...DO NOT...a nullification...of my argument make!


But my point is that depending on the translation (and therefore the agenda of the translator) completely different star systems are referenced. If in fact a star system is referenced.

So a writer talks about the stars, exactly how does that "prove" a scientific finding when you can't even be sure what stars are being written about.

Your rebuttal was ineffective, although you seemed pretty pleased with it.

If your idea of debate or discussion is to ignore the facts, why should I bother?



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 



Yes, l'm extremely satisfied with my earlier response...in which my gm, chevy, 4by4 example you completely ignored...

Here is the definitive question l request you answer...exactly 'when' did ALL this scripture/space manipulation go on? And did these evil manipulators have telescopes to validate/construct their deception...

There are hundreds of manuscripts, both in Hebrew and Greek written BEFORE the telescope invention!

btw, nothing is more enjoyable to OT than hearing an brilliant person, articulate a stupid idea...

Your 'confidence' is a thinly-veiled plea for help...

Try again...and while you're there, answer my 'laughter' proposition...cause that's all l'm doing...



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Hey there OT, I just wanted to ask if you had given my questions any thought? I was filled with glee when I thought I might be getting some answers but I thought Your 'confidence' is a thinly-veiled plea for help... SO you can start at www.google.com, or open up that King James Bible and get to answering some pretty reasonable questions about the good book!



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Yes, l'm extremely satisfied with my earlier response...in which my gm, chevy, 4by4 example you completely ignored...

It is an answer totally devoid of any logic. You completely ignored the factual argument and set up a strawman in it's place.


Here is the definitive question l request you answer...exactly 'when' did ALL this scripture/space manipulation go on? And did these evil manipulators have telescopes to validate/construct their deception...

There are hundreds of manuscripts, both in Hebrew and Greek written BEFORE the telescope invention!

the oldest bits of Job come from the Dead Sea Scrolls

Targum Job
11Q10
Scroll type: Biblical text
Date: 1st century CE (30-50 CE)
Language: Aramaic
Discovered: Cave 11, 1956
Job 30:13-20; 30:X, 27-31:1; 31:8-16

Unfortunately, none of the verses you referenced were found in those fragments.

The earliest Masoretic text prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls would be Cairo Codex. This was dated A.D. 895

The earliest complete manuscript would be Codex Babylonicus Petropalitanus. Its date is A.D. 1008.

The manuscript, Codex of the Prophets of Leningrad contains the major prophets—Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and also the twelve minor prophets. It is dated A.D. 916.

The British Museum Codex is the oldest complete Masoretic manuscript of the entire Old Testament. It is dated somewhere after A.D. 900.

All manipulation began from the dates of the oldest manuscripts. May I recommend a wonderful book to you, "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman.

He sites more proofs than you would ever even imagine possible.

As for star gazing...

Astrology's earliest recorded beginnings in the 3rd millennium BC.
There are some writings which refer to the Akkadian period and which may date from about 2300 B.C.E. Here is an example of one of these early writings.


If Venus appears in the East in the month Airu and the Great and Small Twins surround her, all four of them, and she is dark, then will the King of Elam fall sick and not remain alive.


Mesopotamians even recorded planets as being so many degrees from a star.

19 from the Moon to the Pleiades;
17 from the Pleiades to Orion;
14 from Orion to Sirius. . .

Several birthcharts have been found written in cuneiform. Most of them date from well within the Hellenistic era, but the oldest has been dated by A. Sachs to April 29, 410 B.C. Here is the translation as given by Fagan.

1. Month (?) Nisan (?) night (?) of (?) the (?) 14th (?). . .
2. son of Shuma-usur, son of Shumaiddina, descendant of Deke was born.
3. At that time the Moon was below the "Horn" of the Scorpion
4. Jupiter in Pisces, Venus
5. in Taurus, Saturn in Cancer.
6. Mars in Gemini, Mercury which had set (for the last time) was
(still) in (visible).
7. . . . etc., etc.

There is archaeological proof that people were gazing at the stars long before the earliest copy of the bible. No telescope was needed, they didn't have electric lights dampening the visibility of the stars.


btw, nothing is more enjoyable to OT than hearing an brilliant person, articulate a stupid idea...

Your 'confidence' is a thinly-veiled plea for help...

Try again...and while you're there, answer my 'laughter' proposition...cause that's all l'm doing...


And now you reduce yourself to ad-hominems. really sad. typical, but so sad.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


Yes...I've been at a funeral and I'm out of town working...sorry for the time delay...I'll get to it...thank you for the reminder, ok?




posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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No problem! I see you responding to others I just wanted to make sure my questions weren't falling on deaf ears...Especially since you seem so knowledgeable in a subject I have many questions on!



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Thanks for your effort here..nice post!

Still...help me out here...who cares if there are different names?

My silly truck example just points to the fact that we today use different names...but it's still a truck...

What do you believe the God in the Job story was saying??

Certainly not until recent times have those facts, detailed in my earlier post, been seen up close and 'verified' - this is a separate peice of evidence I'd like you to respond to, ok?

No matter what the group of stars are called...Orion, George, Steve, McCain or Obama...that group that is around the belt of 3 stars...are breaking up...loosing...ever so small...not seen by the naked eye...a long time ago...in a galaxy far far away...that fact was discovered, with technology...

Either way...thank you for your time, ok?

OT



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 



Yes, just cut and pasted your earlier post so I can respond...



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 


Hey, here’s a quick response…I’ll do more detailed as we converse, ok? To me faith is not obsolete…modern technological findings are a good thing…the Bible does says…”knowledge will increase” To me they are not mutually exclusive…


Denominations, yes…it is mostly a sad thing…some personality didn’t like something so started another ‘method’ (Methodists)…some wanted to emphasize baptism (Baptists)…Etc… etc…OT’s theme is the 2nd line on my signature below…major on the majors, minor on the minors…my majors are salvation by Grace alone…that’s about it…

Killing each other, suffering, etc…yes sad very sad…the bible says EVIL exists…but will one day get theirs…I try and be a good example of John 13:34, 35…it too is in my signature.

Love thy enemy? Yes, Jesus said this…

Hate the sin not the sinner? Yes, probably a good thing…

Not to mention modern religious zealots break at least 1 of the ten commandments every single day? See Romans 3:23…6:23…8:1…10:9, 10 and we talks about these verses


Why do churches need so much money when their purpose is only to spread the word of God? Unless it's not their purpose? Man I know of hundreds of churches even in American just getting by…


Any thoughts on "history is written by the victors?" Don’t know this one…can you pls give me a link?

Any thoughts on the multiple, and many, re-writings of the Bible and the many mistranslations that go along with it? Council of Nicaea (sp?), King James? I’m not a King James dude…people don’t talk that way now…I try and break it down to where it’s more relevant…verily verily!! Smile!


Certainly an omnipotent God can preserve his message…I know that’s a cheesy response…I’ll work on a more detailed one for Nicea later…

Have a great night!!

OT



[edit on 15-10-2008 by OldThinker]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Still...help me out here...who cares if there are different names?

Well YOU do, because your entire premise is based on the passage:


”Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?”


Unless you have a way to PROVE that 'aysh, Kimah, and Kesil are undisputedly referring to the constellations in YOUR quote (those 3 words being the ones in the original language) your entire premise falls on it's ear.

I have already shown you that even the translators don't agree to which constellations are being referred to, yet you doggedly stick to your original premise, ignoring every piece of information I place before you.


My silly truck example just points to the fact that we today use different names...but it's still a truck...

but that's the exact problem, because if Job was MISTRANSLATED, then when you promoted

Orion has an almost perfect straight line, a row of second-magnitude stars about equally spaced. Thru time, however, the two right-hand stars, Mintaka and Alnilam, will approach each other and form a naked-eye double; but the third, Alnitak, will drift away eastward so that the band will no longer exist.

Well, what if in fact, kesil was NOT referring to Orion but rather, Herper, as it is translated in the LXX . Then your whole premise is falsified.

Again, if Kimah was referring to Arcturus and NOT Pleiades, your premise that

God's laws of cosmology are getting rid of the constellation Orion…evidentally and slowly….and…surprise, surprise…every last one of the 250 blazing suns in the Pleiades are ordained of God to orbit together in their symmetrical dancing!

is also struck down.

So in this case, it matters VERY MUCH if it's a Chevy or a Ford. A FACT you are choosing to ignore, even though that it is entire basis of your postulation.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
To all responders…thanks for contributing…OT’s got more…

Here’s another one for the readers review.

Did you know that medical principles were in the old testament too??

Yes, just review the journals of medicine written in the last 50 years. You can find study after study on the relationship between words, emotions, our immune system, our skeletal health, and longevity. The Bible recognized nearly 3000 years ago that kind words and laughter are good for health!

Yes, laughter releases chemicals into our system that promotes wellness. I’m no Doctor, but OT reads fairly well…

Let’s see what the Good Book SAID…back in the day...

"A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22

"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24

Skeptic, hey…there is more to this book than meets the eye…why don’t you give it another 'look?'

OT out (stay tuned for more!)



HEY! LOOK AT THAT! King makes a note SEVERAL pages ago in this thread, about how no matter what facts are brought against OT's arguement, he will simply fight back with bible quotes.

When will you guys learn that this is *not* a debate/discussion, rather a bible quoting session on part of OT and simply making any attempt at an arguement with him is practically pointless.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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Then wise king inquired peacefully to the OldThinker, "how old would you say our planet is?"

"Well King, since I believe everything the bible says, I would have to say that the earth is roughly 6000 years old"

King ponders for a moment before asking "Well, how could that be when Dinosaurs were still roaming the earth 65 million years ago, and life itself existed for hundreds of millions of years before then..."

Oldthinker, looking flustered quickly replies "They put those bones there to test your faith! Now, ... NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG MOVE ALONG!"

[edit on 15-10-2008 by king9072]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by king9072]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by king9072
 


king, pls use evidence from any 'source' you like...OT not offended.

You'll never see me 'doggin' your sources...

Will you extend me the same courtesy ?

Or is 'God's Word' an offense to you? btw, it says it is..have you read it?

Oh, thanks for your post.

OT (enjoying Steak @ Del Frisco's)



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