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School suspends boy for anti-Obama shirt

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posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by PammyK
Also, who gets to say what hate speech is? Maybe to me it is hate speech. I think schools go way overboard on some things, but this shirt was disruptive. Again, just my opinion.


The Courts and in this case, the school, would get to "say" what was hate speech. He wasn't suspended for the shirt, so it must not have been hate speech. The schools response to the shirt, which didn't seem to be in violation of school rules, is what was disruptive. Are we to punish people for staying within the guidelines now?

And, if 11 years can't "understand" what the shirt was about, why was there such a stink about it? I don't know about your school, but at my 10 year old's school they talk about the election frequently as part of class. They (the kids) "get" it.

Don't you want your kids to be politically involved, whichever side of the fence you are on? Or are we just raising "sheep"?

We need to find if the shirt fell within school guidelines, as they didn't suspend him for it according to their own paperwork.




posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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Here is a less sensational article with a bit more information.

Link

It looks as if the boy was actually suspended for refusing to turn his shirt inside out and not necessarily what the shirt said.

What would the school have done if another student was offended by the shirt and his or her parents decided to sue the school?

What other action could the school have taken?

Is this really the correct avenue for political discourse? Shouldn't his child be *gasp* learning, instead of pushing his political views on a bunch of 11 year olds?



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
It looks as if the boy was actually suspended for refusing to turn his shirt inside out and not necessarily what the shirt said.

What would the school have done if another student was offended by the shirt and his or her parents decided to sue the school?



People get offended all the time, I know I do. I would support the right of a McCain bashing shirt as well, as long as it was not obscene and within school guidelines.

If the shirt wasn't the reason for suspending, why have him turn it inside out?

There was nothing obscene or against school guidelines with the shirt, from the news account given. You are walking down a slippery slope with your thought process.....what if I wore a shirt saying "WWJD?" to school and someone was offended by it? Would I have to remove it?



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by pavil
If the shirt wasn't the reason for suspending, why have him turn it inside out?

You are walking down a slippery slope with your thought process.....what if I wore a shirt saying "WWJD?" to school and someone was offended by it? Would I have to remove it?


The article states that they suspended him for disobediance in refusing to turn the shirt inside out.

Do we really need more students that completely disregard a teachers instructions?

As far as I know, most public schools disallow any form of religous t-shirts WWJD withstanding.


[edit on 23-9-2008 by round_eyed_dog]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by round_eyed_dog
 


You are missing the point, why did he have to turn his shirt inside out if it was within school guidelines?

Our School, a public one, does not disallow religious shirts as long as they are not tank tops, midriffs, see through or contain vulgar language, images or profanities. Yes there are rules to be followed in school, but if you are following them (wearing a shirt that is not prohibited), why should you get in trouble?



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by round_eyed_dog
 




It looks as if the boy was actually suspended for refusing to turn his shirt inside out and not necessarily what the shirt said.


Why did they tell him to turn his shirt inside out? Did they tell ALL kids to turn their shirts inside out?

So now, its okay for schools to dictate how to wear the clothing? If they dont like a shirt, we have to modify it. What if the teacher didnt like that he was wearing a GB packer shirt in Denver Bronco's territory? Should he then be required to turn the shirt around because the teacher didnt like it?

Where does the insanity end??



And now Im learning what school this is. This is an eye opener for me, because im in the process of moving to Colorado and THAT SCHOOL was one of the options I was looking at to put my daughter in. Holy Cow. I can mark them off the list. Wow.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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My 2 cents is this, I BELIEVE the kid should have the right to wear this shirt... BUT, in the past decades parents have allowed schools to censor their students and violate their rights in several different ways. If they don't like your shirt then they tell you to turn it inside out, any shirt... No one complained when it was music related shirts or other expressions of free speech... If this kids parent wants his kid to have freedom of expression in school then he should have spoke out during the previous instances of schools trampling the constitution. THIS is the product of allowing our schools to do this type of thing without challenge. Even though I am pro-Obama, I'm happy to see this happen... Maybe now parents will pay more attention to what schools take away from their kids...

On a side note, I'd bet the parents did have more to do with this than we think, but my point above still stands...

[edit on 23-9-2008 by XTexan]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 


I'm sure there also aren't rules against wearing a large picture of McCain photoshopped onto Lenin's body either, but I would imagine they would make that kid turn the shirt inside out as well.

There wasn't a rule because who in their right mind would use a kid as a billboard?


Originally posted by greeneyedleo
So now, its okay for schools to dictate how to wear the clothing?


What? When have schools not been able to dictate what students wear?

My daughter goes to a private Catholic prep school so I'm very used to purchasing uniforms. I know that public schools are less stringent in the uniform department, but I would imagine the teacher would need to use their discretion over what they thought was distracting.

A shirt advertising ANYONE as a friend of terrorists is not school appropriate. If my daughters school held pro Obama rallies or had a big poster of MCCain/Palin on the wall I would be very very upset.

School is not the proper avenue for this display.



*Edited to answer both posts

[edit on 23-9-2008 by round_eyed_dog]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by round_eyed_dog
 


Ok. Let me clarify because I understand dress code. I grew up in Texas public schools in the 80s that had strict dress code. And I have no issues with dress codes.

HOWEVER, this child was NOT breaking dress code. The teacher decided she didnt like the shirt and told him to modify his clothing by turning it inside out. She didnt tell all the kids to turn their clothing inside out. Just this kid.

What if the teacher was a die hard Bronco fan and the kid was wearing a "MY Packers can beat up your Broncos" tshirt....and the teacher told him to turn the shirt around.....she does not have that right UNLESS it is against school policy to wear such shirts.


Now im with BH...that obviously there is more to the story then we are being told.


With all of that said. I cant stand Obama or anything he stands for and I actually agree with the shirt. But I find it incredibly tacky, lacking class and just a poor decision by parents. Regardless, unless he broke school policy, the school is just wrong on this.


*additional edits, due to additional thoughts


[edit on 9/23/2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by WatchNLearn
 



Although, I believe the school system doesn't apply freedom of speech to children,

LOL

I would not have allowed my child to have put himself in this position at such a young age.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 


TONS THE GUY IS OF MUSLIM DECENT AND PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah

If this were the case, teachers would be teaching things to your children that geared towards their political views, from pre-k on.


Man, I don't know what planet you are on, but teachers are forcing their political beliefs on to their students "from pre-k on".

Two personal cases: in middle school, in the same year, my daughter's art teacher gave my daughter's class the assignment of making a poster out of words. For an example of how the kids should do this, the teacher said he would make a poster out of the words "Bush" and "liar". And her English teacher, for some reason, decided it was her duty to explain the political spectrum to her students. She did this by saying that democrats were on the left with parties such as greens that want to save the earth, while Republicans were over on the right with skinheads and nazis. I've heard similar stories from nieces and nephews, and it's always liberals that are doing this.

This is so wrong on so many levels. Perhaps the main one being that teachers are authority figures to kids, and as such the kids feel it is both disrespectful and risky to disagree with them. Kids are also very impressionable. The left-leaning teachers know the above all too well.

Anyway, I went to the school superintendent on both of these teachers. The art teacher did not get his contract renewed for the next year and the english teacher was reprimanded. Lesson: speaking up on your child's behalf is important and does work.


[edit on 9/23/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 






Man, I don't know what planet you are on, but teachers are forcing their political beliefs on to their students "from pre-k on".


Yes, my daughter is a school teacher, you should hear the stories she tells me,



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Interesting.

Even though most public schools don't have a school uniform, it is my understanding that there still is a dress code. The school I attended had such a code: You can't wear your pants sagging, wear chains, wear clothing that displays profanity, acts of hatred, violence, drug use, discriminatory remarks, and sexually explicit behavior. You couldn't wear cropped tops and mini-skirts, and all tatoos had to be covered.

Even if the guidelines allowed for such a shirt to be worn on public/state property, it should be left up to the teachers discretion what is appropriate attire for an educational institute - especially in Elementary and Junior High.

I have seen little 11-12 year old girls go to school here in Chicago with T-Shirts saying the most outrageously explicit innuendos written across the front in glitter. Honestly, it disgusts me how a parents can 1. Buy this for their child, and 2. Condone them wearing it.

That said, the anti-Obama shirt certainly crossed a boundary, being defiant and not listening to authorities is grounds for discipline.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by SciDoc
 



That said, the anti-Obama shirt certainly crossed a boundary, being defiant and not listening to authorities is grounds for discipline.


Yes, the shirt was in poor taste....however, we are NOT being told that any rules were broken. A lone teacher decided she didnt like his shirt and told him to turn his shirt around - but she didnt tell any other kids to do so.

Based on your belief he should listen to authority no matter what. Teachers can make bad decisions, and hers was bases on HER opinion of an anti-Obama shirt that apparently broke NO rules.

See my example above about the paker/bronco tshirt analogy.


[edit on 9/23/2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by ben420

Originally posted by SolarskyeBut you can't go around as an eleven year old boy with hate speech on your T-shirt whether it's true or not.


Errr, I'm not too sure why you think there was hate speech on that t-shirt.

Just because a statement does not align with your views doesn't make it "hate speech."

[edit on 23-9-2008 by ben420]


Sorry to have to point this out, but to a lot of liberals, it does.

That is the first defense many of them use when challenged or disagreed with.

After all, it is much easier for them to accuse people of "hate crimes" than it is to intellectually defend their own views.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


To the best of my knowledge, and from experience, the shirt doesn't have to break a certain rule.... Teachers have been making arbitrary calls like this for years.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by XTexan
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


To the best of my knowledge, and from experience, the shirt doesn't have to break a certain rule.... Teachers have been making arbitrary calls like this for years.


Hm. Well, one more reason why I walk further and further away from the possibility of my daughter ever attending public schools.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Solarskye
This looks like the Dad using his child as a political tool for his own agenda. The kid is a child and wearing a shirt accusing Obama of being a terrorists is totally wrong at school. I'm not an Obama supporter but if my kid wore a shirt like that to school they would be in worse trouble from me than a suspension. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything at anytime, anywhere. The dad should be suspended from his child for a day and taken out behind the tool shed for a lesson in parenting. We as members have freedom of speech but we can't say anything we want here on ATS. I guess we can say it but be ready to suffer the consequences.


Oh you have got to be kidding, right. You are going to take a kid away from his father for even a day, because he had him wear a political t-shirt to school. I personally dont see a problem with it. Now if it were a graphic shirt of Obama doing it to Palin doggy style while eating a piece of watermelon and slappin her on the butt with a chicken leg... then I would find it questionable.



posted on Sep, 23 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I agree, only reason I wouldn't is uniforms... I don't think kids should have their freedom of expression suppressed... That will happen plenty when they grow up...


Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Now if it were a graphic shirt of Obama doing it to Palin doggy style while eating a piece of watermelon and slappin her on the butt with a chicken leg... then I would find it questionable.



Now that was hilarious!!!

[edit on 23-9-2008 by XTexan]



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