Iranian Daily: Former US Air force Pilots Behind WTC, Pentagon Attacks

Originally posted by exponent
What evidence would you accept? Please be specific and avoid using weasel words.

Proper DNA and coroner reports.

For example the FDR information was released by the NTSB, it identifies the plane as AA77 and shows its path to within a few seconds of impact.

You mean the FDR that questions the official story?

Also you do know that FDRs have been switched in the past, even in court cases?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Proper DNA and coroner reports.

I believe I have provided you with reports which were sourced from the DMORT team and described their process in detail. Is this not sufficient?

You mean the FDR that questions the official story?

It does not, this has yet to be supported. The NTSB made a few errors with their information release but the FDR data seems to be consistent with the "official story".

Also you do know that FDR have been switched in the past?

There is at least one case where this is suspected yes, does this mean that it happened in this situation? Are you now relying on "it could have happened, therefore it did happen" argumentation?

Originally posted by exponent
I believe I have provided you with reports which were sourced from the DMORT team and described their process in detail. Is this not sufficient?

They do not verify bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

It does not, this has yet to be supported.

I have the AA77 FDR data. It shows a different flight path and there are also questions about the altimeter settings.

There is at least one case where this is suspected yes, does this mean that it happened in this situation?

Just proof that it can and does happen.

Also the fact that the FBI sequestered the boxes from the NTSB and public.


[edit on 22-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
people must have very low IQ to believe in hot dog arab cavemen pilots (and other pancake, expanding warmth, miracle paper passport, etc... fantasies)

This is some pretty nasty racism. Why are Arabs automatically "cavemen"?

Anyway you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about, the pilots were all appropriately licensed, and the person you're talking about with regards to the Cessna (Marcel Bernard) also said this:

There’s no doubt in my mind that once [Flight 77] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it.

funny

so, why don't you take boeing 757 and fly it 6 feet above ground with 700 mph speed, so that we can believe your assumptions...



cavemen = people in caves = US media tells the story of cavemen, not me

if you see racism in that, then be my guest

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
They do not verify bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

They do not? What would?

I have the AA77 FDR data. It shows a different flight path and there are also questions about the altimeter settings.

It does not show a different flight path, perhaps you are thinking of the NTSB animation which does not appear to be correctly rotated. Here is the FDR data plotted with radar returns for AA77: 911files.info...

Just proof that it can and does happen.

Does this mean it did happen? Do you have any evidence it did?

Also the fact that the FBI sequestered the boxes from the NTSB and public.

The NTSB provided the data to the FBI. These are (according to you) the two official investigative agencies. Why do you have a problem with the official investigators recovering the FDR?

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
so, why don't you take boeing 757 and fly it 6 feet above ground with 700 mph speed, so that we can believe your assumptions...

Are we to imply that you believe this to be impossible? Does this mean the 100+ eyewitnesses to the plane's impact are all mistaken? What about the physical evidence of impact, the personal effects found, the DNA etc. This is all mistaken?

cavemen = people in caves = US media tells the story of cavemen, not me

if you see racism in that, then be my guest

Your statement clearly implies that "arab cavemen" would be incapable of this type of flight. This is despite the fact that people who met them in person and flew with them indicate that they could, that they were appropriately certified and had spent time training on the type of jets involved.

You will also find that "caveman" is often used to indicate someone of below average intelligence, someone who is incapable of complex thought. If this is not what you meant then I must suggest you be more careful in future. I am not one to accuse people typically, but the thrust of your statement seemed (and I must admit, still does seem) quite clear to me.

Originally posted by exponent
They do not? What would?

Coroner reports.

The NTSB provided the data to the FBI. These are (according to you) the two official investigative agencies. Why do you have a problem with the official investigators recovering the FDR?

I have posted evidence the the FBI sequeserted the black boxes.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Coroner reports.

Have you filed a FOIA request to get DMORT reports released? They have obviously not been picky about sharing their methodology and results with the authors of the reports I linked you to. Hell their website details how they responded to the Pentagon.

I have posted evidence the the FBI sequeserted the black boxes.

This does not answer my question, according to you, the FBI and NTSB are the "official" investigative agencies. Why would them having access to the FDR be an issue?

Originally posted by exponent
This does not answer my question, according to you, the FBI and NTSB are the "official" investigative agencies. Why would them having access to the FDR be an issue?

Yes the FBI and NTSB are the main investigators, but for some reason the FBI sequestered the black boxes and the NTSB only had minimal access.

Originally posted by exponent
This does not answer my question, according to you, the FBI and NTSB are the "official" investigative agencies. Why would them having access to the FDR be an issue?

Yes the FBI and NTSB are the main investigators, but for some reason the FBI sequestered the black boxes and the NTSB only had minimal access.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Yes the FBI and NTSB are the main investigators, but for some reason the FBI sequestered the black boxes and the NTSB only had minimal access.

So what? According to you the FBI is required to carry out investigations into criminal acts such as this. They requested that the NTSB provide them with the data and the NTSB did so.

How is this inconsistent with what you believe should have happened? Also please reply to my question regarding the DMORT team and FOIA. You've repeatedly pointed out how you have submitted at least one FOIA request. It would appear it is now time for you to submit another to confirm that AA77 impacted The Pentagon (unless you have done so already).

Originally posted by exponent
So what? According to you the FBI is required to carry out investigations into criminal acts such as this. They requested that the NTSB provide them with the data and the NTSB did so.

But the NTSB is to provide technical help to the FBI, the NTSB is the only agency that has the experience and equipment for aviation crash investigation.

So again why would the FBI keep the black box information from the NTSB?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So again why would the FBI keep the black box information from the NTSB?

They didn't, the NTSB provided it to the FBI as far as I am aware.

How is this in any way evidence for anything untoward? You're obviously trying to go somewhere with this but I cannot understand where, and you're still ignoring my previous question:

Have you filed a FOIA request to get DMORT reports released? If not, why not?

Originally posted by exponent
They didn't, the NTSB provided it to the FBI as far as I am aware.

Please read the following information that i have posted before.

911research.wtc7.net...

A source close to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) who asked to remain anonymous when asked about the " ongoing [black box] investigation, " told us that "the NTSB never closely examined the cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) and flight data recorders (FDRs) recovered from American Flight 77 which hit the Pentagon, and United flight 93 which crashed in Pennsylvania. " This, while the FBI has continued to quietly dodge vexing questions related to its prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and how the Bureau’s widely-reported inept and mishandled information protocol cost so many lives.

The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Please read the following information that i have posted before.

This anonymous source is contradicted by the fact that a FOIA request to the NTSB lead to the release of the full AA77 FDR. If the FBI maintained control of this, how would the NTSB release it?

Also, in your eyes, does a comment from an anonymous source count as "evidence"?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


You still havent answered the question:

Have you filed a FOIA request to get DMORT reports released? If not, why not?

I'm curious as well...

Originally posted by donhuangenaro
well, this story about american former pilots sounds more plausible to me than some crazy arab extremist cavemen doing amazing 'hot dog' pilot stuff (they couldn't fly even a small cessna and that is a hard fact)

people must have very low IQ to believe in hot dog arab cavemen pilots (and other pancake, expanding warmth, miracle paper passport, etc... fantasies)

The very low IQ comes around with people who think that it is complicated to fly a modern airliner into a building.

The very low IQ comes from people who think that crashing an airplane into a building takes "hot dog" pilot stuff.

The very low IQ comes from people who don't know any better than to call the hijackers "cavemen".

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by exponent
They didn't, the NTSB provided it to the FBI as far as I am aware.

Please read the following information that i have posted before.

911research.wtc7.net...

A source close to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) who asked to remain anonymous when asked about the " ongoing [black box] investigation, " told us that "the NTSB never closely examined the cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) and flight data recorders (FDRs) recovered from American Flight 77 which hit the Pentagon, and United flight 93 which crashed in Pennsylvania. " This, while the FBI has continued to quietly dodge vexing questions related to its prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and how the Bureau’s widely-reported inept and mishandled information protocol cost so many lives.

The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”

The NTSB decoded the FDRs for 77 and 93; your information is false.

Your information is wrong, I have the data from the NTSB from the "black boxes", do you need a copy?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by beachnut]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by exponent
I believe I have provided you with reports which were sourced from the DMORT team and described their process in detail. Is this not sufficient?

They do not verify bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

It does not, this has yet to be supported.

I have the AA77 FDR data. It shows a different flight path and there are also questions about the altimeter settings.

There is at least one case where this is suspected yes, does this mean that it happened in this situation?

Just proof that it can and does happen.

Also the fact that the FBI sequestered the boxes from the NTSB and public.


[edit on 22-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

The DNA is proven; you can't refute it.

The FDR is correct and shows 77 over 6 second from impact, no problem with the altimeter.

The NTSB decoded the FDR and you can get it from them. A truth group has all 25 hours of data on Flight 77, proving it was 77.

When you come up with evidence of your false idea, they will be true and you can earn a Pulitzer Prize. But there is zero evidence to support your ideas as of now.

Do you need the FDR reports from the NTSB?

Originally posted by exponent
This anonymous source is contradicted by the fact that a FOIA request to the NTSB lead to the release of the full AA77 FDR.

Please notice this also talks about the CVRs not only the FDRs.

Also, in your eyes, does a comment from an anonymous source count as "evidence"?

If it is verifiable, more then the media as a source.


[edit on 23-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by gavron
Have you filed a FOIA request to get DMORT reports released? If not, why not?

I have added it my list of FOIAs. Right now i am awating the NSA document as posted in my other thread.



[edit on 23-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]