Some Americans are supporting their troops, and they should be ashamed

Originally posted by soldiermom
You don't have to support the govt. or the war to support our troops.

You might, one day, find yourself in need of theirsupport.

On behalf of my son, you're welcome.

if you don't support the mission you CANNOT support the troops as someone already stated in this thread.

I might one day find myself in need of their support, sure you are right.
In fact that time has come now.

This govt. has been hijacked we need their help.
Where are they?

Im sure you and your son are good people with good intentions
very good intentions, just not smart ones
both you and your son's patriotism needs guidance

Originally posted by counterterrorist
this is a comment by soldiermom:

I'm willing to wager a bet that the majority of the military are just as smart (if not smarter) as you seem to think you are.

YOU DON'T GET IT. You have NO IDEA what's going on. You are a slave of the petroleum & heroin & money laundering big businessmen WHO ARE FASCISTS NOT BELIEVING IN DEMOCRACY, but in the Illuminati and Reich and NWO slavery and genocide of (wo)mankind. Your robotics impress noone but your idolatry of BUSH the murderer.

The military is ruled by civilians. The Secretaries of the military branches are civilian businessmen --representatives of the Fed, YOUR MASTER. You are a wage-slave. YOU are uneducated. YOUR son has been uneducated BECAUSE OF YOU and YOUR ignorance.

If you really care about his country, you will get educated and stop being a slave and robot.

There's nothing wrong with being patriotic, except when your patriotism is satanic and based on capitalism, such as your idolatry and non-judaic-non-christian-non-muslim satanic mind-slave robotic antics.

YOU don't know what love is or you wouldn't support genocide. And you wouldn't support the oil companies and the phony peak oil scam as YOUR GOD.

No one here wishes harm for you or your son. You are simply serving the devil in your ignorance -- make no mistake about it.

Grow up. Take some responsibility.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by counterterrorist]

People on high horses have a long way to fall. And, do yourself a favor and quit assuming you know me. Did you read my post in it's entirety? It's not that long and it made no mention of the crap your spewing.

From my point of view YOU have "no idea" and don't "get it".

Nowhere did I say I support the war. I said I support my son and the troops.

Take your propaganda and shove it down someone else's throat.

I find it very funny that you and your like think that because someone doesn't swallow what you're dishing out that it makes them uneducated and ignorant.

I feel sorry for narrow-minded people such as yourself.

Just because you say it and think it doesn't make it gospel. Take your blinders off.

Based on your hot-headed reply I'll have to take this opportunity to turn your last comment around on you.

Grow up. Take some responsibilty.

To you also, on behalf of my son, your welcome.

reply to post by ModernAcademia



I have to say that I'm truly appalled at your arrogance in reference to my intellect and that of my son's. What supreme being knighted you smartest of the smart?

What you fail to grasp is that yours is just an opinion and belief much like my post is my opinion and belief.

Opinion + belief doesn't equal supreme intelligence.

This thread was supposed to be, by your initial post, not supporting the troops and your reasons why. Now it's turned into how stupid you are if you do support them.

In the future, to insure calm and reasonable debate, you might want to leave out the references insulting people's intelligence just because they're not on the same page you are.

And the bit about my patriotism needing guidance? Not by the likes of you. I have to say that your patriotism is a little jaded and misguided at best.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by soldiermom]

To throw my pennethworth in as well

I was talking to a Para (in the UK) who has recently been to the USA. What he finds the hardest is that he is putting himself on the line for Queen and country and there is so little support by the general public.

In the US, the forces wear their uniforms with pride. In the UK, you rarely see a soldier in uniform - this is an embarrasment. I look up up the USA in the better way they support their troops . Yes wars are horrible and most are pointless but these decisions are made by politicians not the army - so rally your MPs, senate etc. with placards but still support your troops.

Originally posted by justamomma
andrea yates (spelling?) said that she killed her children bc she was worried about them facing what we all may be facing here in the near future....

honestly, i can understand that mentality bc as a mother, ...

You have serious issues to work out of you can "underdstand" her mentality. Why don't you discuss this "understanding" with your husband, or better yet a social worker.

What we "may be facing" soon is nothing compared to what was "facing" all the children in the world in the past. You are living in the best time period in human history.

For anyone to use an ignorant accessment of life such as this is disgusting.
Killing your children is never "understandable" is any sense.

Originally posted by justamomma
HOWEVER, i do not support what she did as many of you i am sure do not.
her intent, if she is telling the truth, was not one of harming her kids but bc she didn't want them to suffer indefinately at the hands of power hungry *snippers*. BUT IT WAS STILL WRONG AND NO ONE WILL DISAGREE.

Why would you even throw this in there?
Ugg, to even remotely justify what that monster did is inexcusable.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why have you even brought this up and then both defended and debased it? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You are appaled and yet understanding?

Originally posted by justamomma
i LOVE the men and women in our military,

It is clear that you do not, and that's ok, thats your right.
No need to pretend here.

Originally posted by justamomma
but they are STILL ACCOUNTABLE FOR MURDERING INNOCENT LIVES!!

all of them? Just for being in the military?

Aren't YOU just as accountable for being an American who pays the taxes that funds these wars? I think you are just a hypocrite assigning blame away from yourself.


Or do you think they are all lining up innocent Iraqi's each day for target practice? Are there rape rooms on base that the female soldiers just ignore, or do they get a crack at the male prisoners?

Originally posted by justamomma
hmm.... if you support the troops BC they are part of our own despite the fact that the war is wrong, then in essence you support the fool who is the president of this country, pure and simple.

Your logic is comical in some ways, but no worries, you have plenty of company.

Originally posted by justamomma
i think the misunderstanding of "patriotism" has warped some views.

misunderstanding of "patriotism"??
What exactly does that mean?

Originally posted by justamomma
these soldiers lives, whether it is your brother or sister, best friend or cousin are NO MORE VALUABLE than the lives they are snuffing out.

Where did you get the idea that anyone thought otherwise?
That is an absurd assumption.

I support our troops and to some small extent, the mission.

I do not support "murder", "rape" or any of the other atrocities you seem to think go on all day at American base camps.

I say shame on you for not being even a tad bit more informed.

Perhaps a day or two at a local base talking with real soldiers might help you a bit.

Anybody seen the documentary "Body of War?" It's about a soldier, Tomas Young, who was paralyzed by sniper fire in Iraq. In the film, he makes a really good point.

Basically, he says the only people who should cheer for the mission are the ones actually performing the task: the troops themselves.

Folks at home, if they wish, are free to "support the troops" by hoping they stay safe and come home soon. That's it. Ordinary citizens shouldn't rah-rah a war in which they aren't participating while at the same time criticizing those who don't support the war. It's the height of hypocrisy and, frankly, it reeks of cowardice.

Originally posted by soldiermom
I have to say that I'm truly appalled at your arrogance in reference to my intellect and that of my son's. What supreme being knighted you smartest of the smart?

I wasn't trying to be offensive
However, as far as me being the smartest of the smart, the truth is that this is not rocket science.

You don't have to be a genius to understand right from wrong.

You don't have be a scholar to know that supporting war-corporatism is not being patriotic. Being patriotic is being patriotic.

Originally posted by soldiermom
What you fail to grasp is that yours is just an opinion and belief much like my post is my opinion and belief.

Opinion + belief doesn't equal supreme intelligence.

I stated some opinions but mostly facts.
Can you differentiate between the two?

Soldiers are the middlemen of blowback causing americans to lose their freedoms more and more everyday.

Even this retired general who came on the colbert report said very similar things as I am.

Originally posted by soldiermom
And the bit about my patriotism needing guidance? Not by the likes of you. I have to say that your patriotism is a little jaded and misguided at best.

This country has been hijacked by big business.
America has become Israel's puppy dog.

The top of the ladder employers of soldiers support israel more than the country the troops are allegedly fighting for.

"patriotic" people like you are only patriotic, imo, to the old united states, the beloved one, the creditor nation one. Not the current in debt most hated country. Your patriotism is not only misguided but out of date.

Be a real patriot and oppose the war, oppose the FED, oppose corruption within the country and not without.

I joined the Army as a "Cold Warrior" and firmly believed in the cause that I would be fighting against. I was also recalled to fight in the 1st gulf war and even though I was less than enthused, I WENT! I wasn't going to reply to this thread because I honestly had to digest what the OP was trying to say and not reply out of pure emotion.

OUR soldiers, airman and naval personnel don't NEED to be "educated" as to why they fight. Believe it or not they actually have their OWN opinions! They are as different as your choices... Should I go to Starbucks today or get a Cobb salad. Many, many of these Service members joined for reasons that maybe you'll NEVER be able to fathom.

During my own service I encountered dozens of different reasons why people chose the military option. MANY just wanted the education benefits that the Military can provide. Some just wanted a large signing bonus. Some were, "true believers", like me. I could go on and on but to broad brush them as "uneducated" is simplistic, in IMO.

A lot of them go back to fight, these brave men and women, not for country but for their own friends and those that haven't experienced the HORROR of war. They go back to help those who NEED their experience and pass on their knowledge to others LESS learned in the art of war! They don't go back for their government, they go back out of a feeling of loyalty to their fellow BROTHERS. Many have gone back for just that reason and still opposed the war!

As for me, I'm in my early 40's now and cannot fight. I also opposed the war from the start! I have also fought to include "Veterans Against the WAR" in Veterans day parades. When I say it, well, it comes from the heart. When YOU say it, it just sounds like so much S**t.

OP, my guess is that you've never had to worry about paying for an education or needed a safe place for your young family or EVER worried about anyone but yourself? These people fighting are YOUR only hope for our countries salvation because I know that you'd rather talk than fight yourself.

Hmmm toughy...id always support British troops...American etc...BUT..where does it end exactly? Do we support them if another country was invaded blown to bits illegally...a million dead,we have to draw the line somewhere,not just as soldiers or civilians but as human beings not wanting our world to tumble down the rabbit hole of destruction even more...never been in the army,so maybe the intensive,loyalty,patriotism! etc etc really gets in deep...but really a toughy....and btw..im guessing alot of American and British soldiers hate this damn war...some dont think about the political side...those who do though and maybe want to leave will probably stay to protect and be with their buddies,or so i have heard thats what most soldiers are really fighting for in these wars,not their country(which is silly) but there comrades on the battlefield....

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Lethil]

Here you go OP, some more gratuitous points for you and your thread idea purloined from another thread.

Maybe, while you're pondering your next move, you'll consider clicking on this link and discovering what is being done by some, and, perhaps equally intriguing are the types of people involved, their politics, and what they are doing. I will never be ashamed of acting in accordance with my beliefs; I would be ashamed to do nothing.

www.troopssupport.com...

Originally posted by Grendel39
OUR soldiers, airman and naval personnel don't NEED to be "educated" as to why they fight. Believe it or not they actually have their OWN opinions!

Opinions are irrelevant, innocent people are dying.

There is a growing number of homeless people because of this war, go tell them hey, it's all about opinion, soldiers have their own opinions, now go back under the bridge in your tent and be a good patriot.

Tell innocent middle eastern people that died, tell their families it was about opinion.

Originally posted by Grendel39
As for me, I'm in my early 40's now and cannot fight. I also opposed the war from the start! I have also fought to include "Veterans Against the WAR" in Veterans day parades. When I say it, well, it comes from the heart. When YOU say it, it just sounds like so much S**t.

IMHO, you don't find the thread offensive. It's more that you are unwilling to acknowledge how corrupted things has become and the truth is just not an option at this point in your life. I understand that, you grew up when your country was a globally beloved one.

But it's time that your perspective adapts to today.

Originally posted by Grendel39
OP, my guess is that you've never had to worry about paying for an education or needed a safe place for your young family or EVER worried about anyone but yourself?

Couldn't be more wrong. I grew up in a rough neighbourhood.
I'm still today paying my student loan.
Growing up, my sisters were using sugar and water on their hair instead of hairspray.

Secondly, this thread was also largelly because of oppressed people in other nations, being killed or oppressed under the rule of your foreign policy, but i only care for myself?

No you only want to preserve your outdated patriotism, will all due respect sir.

Originally posted by Grendel39
These people fighting are YOUR only hope for our countries salvation because I know that you'd rather talk than fight yourself.

My only hope for our country's salvation?

See how out of date you are lol?

This war is bankrupting the economy
So many more homeless people already
they are bankrupting you and using that stolen money to finance the oppression of foreign nations.

We are losing more and more freedom everyday because of blowback.

So how can you say that when they are doing nothing but decrease the level of hope that this country continues to cling to.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


i have to ask out of idle curiosity...do you pay your taxes? do you buy goods and services from people who have a business license and therfore charge you taxes and in turn pay their taxes?

i wont insult your intelligence by explaining where im going with this, you know already.

but it seems to me that until you can find a way to survive without paying taxes so that you yourself are no longer supporting the war effort, you might do with a little less finger pointing.

this thread reminds me of a conversation i had recently wtih someone who was "so sick of churches shoving religion down our throats" and yet she had this book that "debunks" the bible verse by verse and went on and on to me about how there was no god. so in essense she was doing what the jehovas witnesses do, only in reverse.

you sit there and point fingers and tell us how we're all wrong, ignorant, ETC and how its impossible to support the troops without supporting the war (which is bs and you know it) and yet, you yourself undoubtedly support the war by making and spending money.

funny how that works isnt it?

if you want to earn the right to tell us we're wrong for supporting our troops and therefore the war, you need to find a way to be in a position to tell us that without hypocrisy.

so, quit your job, stop spending money and only then will you no longer be supporting the war.

and ill still say you dont have the right to tell me im wrong for disagreeing with your opinions

reply to post by ModernAcademia


People in glass houses.....well, you're a self-appointed scholar. You know the rest.

I just noticed you're from Montreal. I'm really not concerned with what you think anymore. Our troops don't need your support. Carry on.

Originally posted by gormly

You have serious issues to work out of you can "underdstand" her mentality. Why don't you discuss this "understanding" with your husband, or better yet a social worker.

What we "may be facing" soon is nothing compared to what was "facing" all the children in the world in the past. You are living in the best time period in human history.

For anyone to use an ignorant accessment of life such as this is disgusting.

If you honestly believed that the world was about to sink into the pits of hell and you held to a belief that when you die, there is a heaven....... then yes, based on her flawed line of thinking, I can see how she would arrive at the conclusion she did. However, I acknowledge her line of thinking was selfish and motivated by fear which distorted her view of real love.

I should have clarified that I understood HER mentality rather than THAT mentality. Having understood it though furthers my understanding of "the road to hell is paved w/ good intentions" thus trying to explain why I do not support our troops.

Killing your children is never "understandable" is any sense.

But killing someone else's children IS understandable? thus was my point. thankyou for helping me get the point across!

Why would you even throw this in there?

Ugg, to even remotely justify what that monster did is inexcusable.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

To get across exactly what you are helping me to get across, although I tend to try and use tact when offering my perspectives.

Well, that is kind of what I thought too about people "supporting" the troops in a war that they will admit is wrong. It is kind of *snipped* up logic, isn't it. I can't understand it myself either.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have a clear conscience. I don't condone what she did and I don't condone the actions of killing other children, women, and/or men in a war that is wrong regardless of the reasons ppl cite as justification for the soldier's actions.

Why have you even brought this up and then both defended and debased it?

Well, if it isn't clear by now then I don't know what to tell you

It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

obviously I disagreed w/ you on that.

You are appaled and yet understanding?

Again, ty for helping me to prove my point.

However, the difference btw me and those who support the troops but not the war is that I won't argue w/ you not supporting Andrea Yates since she WAS the one who carried out the act despite that she felt she was being handed an order by God. I agree, wrong is wrong and good intentioned or not, to shed innocent blood is disgusting.

It is clear that you do not, and that's ok, thats your right.

This is really an unfair accusation on your part. I value all human life, i just don't value the life of a soldier more than the life of an iraqi and that is what upsets some on here. I may have more of a cultural bond to the soldiers, but that doesn't make their life or ours more important than the innocent lives that are being snuffed out over there.

all of them? Just for being in the military?

If they are have offensively taken anyone's life over there, then yes. What makes the life of Andea Yate's children more important than the life of an iraqi so much so that you agree to her being held accountable despite her self imposed "good intention" but the soldier shoudn't be held accountable BC of their self imposed "good intention." kind of a double standard. killing innocent blood despite the "reasons" one may have in their head is wrong.

Aren't YOU just as accountable for being an American who pays the taxes that funds these wars? I think you are just a hypocrite assigning blame away from yourself.

well, this just goes to show that you haven't read through the whole thread bc had you done so, you would know my answer to this question.

Or do you think they are all lining up innocent Iraqi's each day for target practice? Are there rape rooms on base that the female soldiers just ignore, or do they get a crack at the male prisoners?

I certainly hope not to all of the above, but I do live in a place called the "real world" and in this place even an American has the potential to be a rabid monster, though they will hide it behind the "guise" of self justified war thus allowing fellow countrymen back home to close their eyes and pat them on the back.

Your logic is comical in some ways, but no worries, you have plenty of company.

funny bc you actually have the same logic I do as proven w/ my analogy of andrea, but just choose to ignore it when it is given a different name such as "war."

Where did you get the idea that anyone thought otherwise?

hmmmm...... i wonder?

I say shame on you for not being even a tad bit more informed.

and you say my logic is comical. I should feel ashamed for what you perceive as me being ill~informed, yet you support acts that otherwise would "disgust" you all bc it is disguised behind the name of "war"?



When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing. ~ Dwight D. Eisenhower

The title of this thread should be changed from "Some Americans are supporting their troops, and they should be ashamed" to "I'm Trolling for ATS Points".

I am not ashame3d to support US servicemen who put their lives on the line daily. Perhaps I'm not in agreement with the politics behind the fighting but to not support your next door neighbor, or whoever is just wrong; whether you see them as misguided or heroes it should not matter.

You have issues with the neo-cons in office that's fine - but leave the guys paying the price in blood alone.

Please lay off Soldiermom. Even though the War in Iraq was based on a pack of lies, her son knew the risk when he signed up. It isn't wrong to love and support your son, as it's a mother's duty to.

[edit on 14/7/08 by MacDonagh]

I dont really have any feelings towards the
troops, its a job they choose to get paid for, just
like anyone else.

but I despise the decision makers.

we invade a nation because we suspect WMD,
yet we are the only nation in the world
that has ever used nuclear weapons on the
civilians of another country, twice.

most soldiers fighting in vietnam couldnt
even define what communism was.
after vietnam, Henry Kissinger said
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals
to be used as pawns for foreign policy."

i will tell my kid if he wants to defend
freedom, then join a militia, but never
the military, because his oath will be to take
orders, even if he thinks they are wrong.

I see the magnets that declare that the driver of the car supports the troops, but please, is there anyone that can tell me in what way they are supporting any of the troops? Magnets and bumper stickers really just make the driver feel good and doesn't harm anyone. I might be annoyed a little by them though. I know that some people do the email thing and that makes me wonder what kind of war is it that combatants have time to interact with anyone. Must be REMFs and pogues that they are emailing. I talked to a few at a V. A. Hospital and these guys are really getting the run around on medical care. They expect to be treated well, but us old guys are in worse shape due to medical neglect when we came back from our own corporate inspired fiasco. I have done volunteer work at a V.A. psychiatric hospital, but my health and finances won't let me any more. They need people to answer phones, schedule appointments, give directions, drive vans and even direct care if qualified. I promise that these guys that are coming home and are back all ready are the ones that really need the help.

I find it very ironic that you say, "Some Americans are supporting their troops, and they should be ashamed", while suggesting that they get educated so they realize they should no longer support the US miltary. I understand not agreeing with the war or president Bush, but the troops have no say in war. They just follow orders. Be ashamed of being an American for that matter, be ashamed to pay taxes, be ashamed to wake up and go to work supporting our economy. I doubt you could handle being the in army.

What have the troops done wrong?

For those who don't get it, the below video is a soldier who decided to do the right thing. He is a hero!




Something needs to be done. How long are we going to continue to promote genocide and just say 'oh we are just doing our job'.

Does anyone even realize how far things are going?

Furthermore, even if you do support the troops what will you do when your economy crashes because of this nation-building which you absolutely cannot afford?

Your country is in super-debt, but you keep borrowing like a crackhead.

Maybe when the U.S becomes a third world country you might see some light..................hopefullyyyyyyyy and finallyyyyy