Some Americans are supporting their troops, and they should be ashamed

Supporting that is supporting treason and supporting criminal behavior. REAL criminal behavior (not following orders), not the supposed ones of the current admin.

Let me set the record straight: i don't like George Bush as a president. This means little, honestly. But don't take me to be a Bush lover. I also do not like the Democrats OR the Republicans. They put their loyalty to a party ahead of a loyalty to their nation.

Having said that, i fully understand that the party loyalists are the civilians who make the decisions in matters of war.

But our nation is set up a certain way. I am a constitutionalist, and believe that we follow our constitution when it is fair weather AND when it rains.

I also understand that you cannot allow mutiny, or any behavior that appears that way.

I applaud the soldiers for having a conscience. But there is a way that these things should be done.

I will also say that i know many, many Iraq war vets. I communicate with some who are currently in battle (and Afghanistan, too). They have a few moments at the end of their 16 hour days, and they share their daily occurances with me. These men take great pride in what they are doing. Not ALL soldiers feel the way that your links would have some believe. Yes, there are some who don't like it. That is ok...but they have taken their paychecks and have made their commitments. They MUST follow through.

I would rather work through this and maintain our nations honor than to have the alternative, whereby our servicemen are encouraged to disobey orders.

There is another side to this story. I can guarantee you that most of the men and women serving in Iraq are proud of what they do. Our of the hundreds i know that are serving currently, i have yet to hear one think ill of what they are doing. At least, out of those that i know or communicate with.

I don't want to argue, either. You are a fellow Texan.

As a Marine for this beautiful country I think you need to step out of the box. I do not support the war in Iraq, however I can't refuse to go or not follow an order. If I did I would be thrown in Jail away from my family and friends. I did not enlist thinking I was going to get to kill people, I did it for the knowledge and the skill that came with it. I enjoy knowing I can protect my family if I need too and protect my property if any enemy tries to come take it.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I applaud the soldiers for having a conscience. But there is a way that these things should be done.

I would rather work through this and maintain our nations honor than to have the alternative, whereby our servicemen are encouraged to disobey orders.


I don't want to argue, either.

You are a fellow Texan.

lol ty for the last line

i do see some of your points. i do not want any soldier to be put in more harms way than is necessary, but what is the "way that these things should be done"?

i am frustrated to tell you the truth..

i feel so helpless and honestly hopeless when it comes to my views on this.

my heart aches for the victims on BOTH sides and i feel spoiled even typing that out.

doesn't there ever come a time when ppl realize that going about it the "right way" could really be the "wrong way"? what i mean is, we "pride" ourselves on being civilized and claim we must do this "right" way, but who is the authority on what the TRULY "right" way is?

does that make sense?

[edit on 13-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You should be ashamed for starting this thread. We ALL should support our troops. That doesn't mean we have to support our government. The troops are the victims here and they need and DESERVE our support.

This thread =

Edit to say: OOPS.....

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
to go to another country to fight for freedom at home makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Not an ounce of logic can be found in that thought process.

:shk: Guess you never heard of World War I or World War II, eh?

What the hell are they teaching in schools these days? Obviously not much. Oh wait ... You are from Montreal. THAT explains it!

(how'd that generalization feel? )

yup.

To be honest, i am a pacifist. I don't kill even insects without dire need (no wasps allowed inside my home, for example). So bear this in mind.

But, more than a pacifist, i am a realist. I understand that my mindset is not "the norm" for our world. There ARE those that would do us harm.

Consider this:

1. we are currently moving ahead in Iraq. To the point that the Iraqi government is talking about developing a withdrawal timeline. The "Surge" is working, obviously.

2. We were attacked on our soil. No, Iraq didn't do it. but Iraq was in direct violation of UN resolutions demanding a full dismantling of their weapons programs. They had shown themselves to be irresponsible with such research, and used it on their neighbors. Those are the "innocent" people that got the worst endof the deal. But once the attack happened, we have to consider that having such a powerful enemy in office was not going to add to our security. Saddam HAD to go. There was no other way around it.

When i say "do it the right way", i mean follow the chain of command. It is there for a reason. Breaking the chain of command cannot be allowed, in any way. Once you violate the order of the service, you jeopardize the lives of every other service member. Just like the Atheist who is suing the military. He had a single issue, and instead of following chain of command he went to the civilian news. That is ridiculous and usurps the power given to the military to handle the issues they have.

No, i don't think the military is "free and clear". I have several BIG worries about them. But if i want to exact change i have to do it wisely.

I will tell you one thing: no one will be won over with video's like the one that the OP posted on the last page. That is definitely not the "right" way to do anything, and most adults realize this.

I share your frustration. I want our soldiers returned. But i also don't want to let the ones who have died to have their life spent in vain. We are close to being able to stand down. Be patient.

Remember, UBL said that we would not have the stomache to fight Al Qaeda in a war. Our own enemy warned us of our weakness.

Originally posted by bmxkeeler
If I did I would be thrown in Jail away from my family and friends.

i do understand this and this is something i struggle with even for myself. i am a single parent and i don't want to jeopardize my family's well being, but am i going to jeopardize it more in the long run by not doing what is right?

and i could step down, but the thing is, since i am a citizen of this country i feel i do have the right to discuss and try to understand this. i mean, i am rightfully labeled an "american" and this is being done in america's name. so, it could potentially affect me and my children in much greater ways than the minor ways it already has.

and i have VERY close friends in the military whose well being is important to me.

ppl claim that it is being done FOR us, so don't we have the right to speak up?

now, i will concede on the dogmatic view as i do recognize that i am not faced with what those over there are faced with..... i do recognize that it is easy to say "they SHOULD do this or that" when it is not a decision i have to make at the present moment, but if this continues, it could very well be a decision on my door step.

please let me ask this w/out ppl getting offended: if the soldiers are doing this for OUR protection, should they not take the most appropriate action to ensure our continued liberties as stated in the constitution?

it is frustrating NOT being in the military bc those that are want to dismiss the questions to try and understand this.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


No, soldiers take orders. They are not supposed to sit and think about the deeper meaning of life. Sucks, but that is the way it is. And remember, not everyone is introspective and intellectual. If you are, you will not likely be given an Infantry MOS.

I'm from the UK but I also support your troops. However I dont support the war, and I dont support Bush and Rummie and all those other warmongers who lie to your troops and the American public. Those people your troops are fighting, are just as much lied to as the American people. But if I was given a gun and thrown into a mess I'd be fighting alongside your guys.

People admire your troops and so they should, your troops believe they're fighting for a good cause, they're uninformed but that itself is not a sin. All we can do is discuss these things, and try and change as many minds, and inform as many people as we can and hope that they listen.

reply to post by unnamedninja


one of my friends that i visit with is a UK soldier stationed in Afghanistan. He is VERY proud of the work he does, and I am proud to know him.

He embodies the tough and tenacious Brit, and does a fine service as a representative of your fine nation.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by justamomma

 

No, soldiers take orders. They are not supposed to sit and think about the deeper meaning of life. Sucks, but that is the way it is. And remember, not everyone is introspective and intellectual.

If you are, you will not likely be given an Infantry MOS.

oy vey. and this is what worries me.

well, i am going to walk away from this thread and think ( ) about this some more. i certainly don't want to offend anyone. i am so objective that even though i feel i know in my heart what should be done, i can feel empathy for what the soldiers are facing.

anyway, i will think before posting again because i really don't want to say things that would cheapen what the soldiers are going through.

I don't support this war or really any war(to an certain extent). And no i don't support troops that either know they're figting for nothing more than king george and don't care, or are just too blinded by the facade to see any different. If men cease to think about what they do and just take orders than we end up nothing more than the mindless worker ants they want us to be.((I think it was jfk that said"wars will cease to exist when men refuse to fight"(let bush and them fight their own war)) I just can't see why people would risk their lives for a government that has showed over and over it doesn't give a damn about the people. And this war is for the government, not the country, not the people, the government.

I also agree that people confuse love of their country with love of their government and even sometimes love of capitalism/socialism/whatever. The government is supposed to serve the people, there supposed to be their for your benefit.Anyone that would look deep enough would see that now there only there to subdue the people.

Also, people can't actually believe that there fighting a war in iraq/afghanistan to protect their rights here. Actually its kinda ironic if you think about it.You leave to fight a war thinking you're protecting your freedom at home only to come home and realize while you were gone they started taking it all way.

But i guess it's all works to take people's eyes off of what's really going on and what really matters. Keep everyone paying attention to whats going on over there while we get away with murder over here.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by AgnosticX]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


wow well said my friend... im Canadian.. and I am feel bad for any troops over there supporting the M.I.C. in whatever there doing abroad... if enough ppl said tthey didnt agree or want to support it would they change there tune? I hear Barack is gonna back peddle on his stance once said early in his campaign to bring them home right away... hes planning to "reassess" the situation.... its crap in every way!

reply to post by bmxkeeler


I mean no offence by this at all honest.. you are a brave guy for doing what you do (im Canadian btw) but that's gotta make ya feel uneasy knowing that they can throw ya in jail and punish ya for that... I mean im a civilian so I can't say I understand following orders and being there for yer buddies and that... just a thought

peace and love to you and your family

They should not. If they truly believe they have rights for war, and can neglige other nations rights, they can do anything. And they do.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

You should be ashamed for starting this thread. We ALL should support our troops. That doesn't mean we have to support our government. The troops are the victims here and they need and DESERVE our support.

This thread =

You ARE aware that i didn't start this thread, right?

You had the "reply to" tag with my name there. Don't want any confusion with my position on this issue.

Originally posted by Alxandro
The beauty about this country is that every America has the right to criticize their country as they see fit but some people choose to take advantage of this freedom and abuse it.

This is exactly why we are losing our freedoms at home, because if we abuse it, we are going to lose it.

No. The real abuse is not to question the losing of our freedoms.

It´s very sad to see that there is no money for the American people and many children are going homeless while Bush war adventures continue and spying on the Americans who question them starts, killing true democracy. That´s a real abuse.

well i got in trouble for my last post on a idiotic post like this..
ya know i think that some people post this stuff just so they can get som points, because you know it bring it...anyway i think its idiotic and totaly a show ..
well have fun with your hate and deppression

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Is this thread a reply to the one about not supporting our troops, because I'm not sure If I'm reading a typo or this is what this thread stemmed from....

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


OOPS. Sorry about that friend. I fixed my other post.

Lastly.....soldiers take orders. If we didn't have a volunteer army, we would have a draft. Which would you all prefer? This is to those that naively think that soldiers are at fault for a war.

During a war, if a soldier doesn't want to do what he/she is ordered to do, they can be shot. Put the blame where it belongs, with the government, not the soldiers that are just DOING THEIR JOBS!! so you cry babies won't get drafted and poop your pants.