There is no place in the Bible where Jesus explicitly says that he, the Holy Ghost, and God the father are one, nor is there any place where he tells
people to worship him. But there are examples where he is referred to as God:
"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith
as precious as ours:" (2 Peter 1:1)
"while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ," (Titus 2:13)
"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen." (Romans 9:5)
"Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'" (John 20:28)
Yes, there are places where Jesus does the things that are typically attributed to God, and people often sometimes refer to him as God, but Jesus
himself never indicates that he is God, and nowhere is there any indication that the Holy Spirit is anything but independent of God.
So No, Jesus is not God, in the Christian sense.
However, if you want to look outside of Christianity, we are all a part of God.
[edit on 6/23/2008 by Mad_Hatter]
Is Yashua(Jesus) God ?????, page 1
privacy
reply posted on 23-6-2008 @ 08:55 AM by Maya432
reply to post by kacou
well said indeed
more subtle than me but its cool...
religion has really been bugging me lately..
well said indeed
more subtle than me but its cool...
religion has really been bugging me lately..
reply posted on 23-6-2008 @ 11:14 AM by jmdewey60
reply to post by GJIML
Yes!
If you were a Greek person living in the Roman Empire and did not know Judaism, that would be your conclusion.
The emperors had statues all over that were demanded to be worshiped as Gods.
They believed that stories about mythological figures, who seemed rather human, were about the Gods.
Well, they were preferred to the Titans, who were destroyed by Jupiter.
The more Human, the better.
The old God things that created the universe were serpents.
If the Gods killed the serpents, well, nice for us, because we end up, at least, with gods who are like us.
If a man defeated God, not by rebellion, as Lucifer attempted, but by being better than God, well that would be a natural progression, to the Pagan mind.
By way of defeating the Angry God, Jesus becomes a god, himself.
So, in Human terms, Jesus IS god.
Yes!
If you were a Greek person living in the Roman Empire and did not know Judaism, that would be your conclusion.
The emperors had statues all over that were demanded to be worshiped as Gods.
They believed that stories about mythological figures, who seemed rather human, were about the Gods.
Well, they were preferred to the Titans, who were destroyed by Jupiter.
The more Human, the better.
The old God things that created the universe were serpents.
If the Gods killed the serpents, well, nice for us, because we end up, at least, with gods who are like us.
If a man defeated God, not by rebellion, as Lucifer attempted, but by being better than God, well that would be a natural progression, to the Pagan mind.
By way of defeating the Angry God, Jesus becomes a god, himself.
So, in Human terms, Jesus IS god.
reply posted on 23-6-2008 @ 01:44 PM by sir_chancealot
Originally posted by GJIML
Well, i was raised for the truth that Jesus is the messiah and God...
But now, i'm having second thoughts about,if he's the son of the living God or He's God in flesh ! ! Plz, anyone who can shed some lights on this topic feel free to reply, it might comfort meIn other words: Is Jesus God ?
---------------------------------
TheY Are WaiTinG FoR A MiRacLe To StaTe Ur ExisTance, What MiRacLe Is More GloRiFieD Than OuR LorD Jesus
He is God in human flesh. Read John 1:1-17
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. "
The "Word" was both WITH God, and WAS God. Everything that was made was made by the "Word". (A common misconception among Christians is that God the Father made the world.) The "Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...full of grace and truth". Who was "full of grace and truth"? John tells us several lines down: "...but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
See this link, as it explains it pretty well. www.carm.org...
Here is an excerpt
No, Jesus never said the exact three words, "I am God". But Jesus also never said the exact four words, "I am a prophet" or the exact four words "I am a man," but we know he was both a prophet and a man. It is not necessary for Jesus to say the exact phrase "I am a man" for us to know that he was a man. Likewise, it is not necessary for Jesus to utter the exact three words "I am God" in order for us to determine whether or not he is divine. Jesus may not have said the exact sentence "I am God" but he did claim the divine name for himself (Exo. 3:14 with John 8:58) and he also received worship (Matt. 2:2; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38).
When Moses was up at the Mount speaking to God, Moses asked God what his name was. God said, "I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you,’” (Exodus 3:14). In John 8:58 Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” Right after this the Jews pick up stones to throw at him. Later, in John 10:30-33 Jesus claimed to be one with the Father and the Jews wanted to stone him again because they said to Jesus, "You, being a man, make yourself out to be God." Jesus had claimed the divine name for his own in the Jews wanted to kill him for it. Therefore, from Jesus' own mouth we see that he was claiming to be God.
[edit on 23-6-2008 by sir_chancealot]
reply posted on 23-6-2008 @ 05:32 PM by miriam0566
He is God in human flesh. Read John 1:1-17
The "Word" was both WITH God, and WAS God. Everything that was made was made by the "Word". (A common misconception among Christians is that God the Father made the world.) The "Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...full of grace and truth". Who was "full of grace and truth"? John tells us several lines down: "...but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
problem with john 1:1 is that it is a blatant mistranslation since ancient greek did not have an article "a"
transliterated, the scripture reads that the word was with "the god" and the word was "god"
this would be the equivalent in english of saying the word was with god and the word was "a" god.
simple grammar. but advocates of the trinity refuse to see it.
i hammered this topic here
www.belowtopsecret.com...
reply posted on 23-6-2008 @ 10:15 PM by Alcove
reply to post by miriam0566
Even if that's true, there are other passages which tell us Jesus is God. John 20:28-29 says:
And Thomas answered and said to him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
So Thomas, one of the original 12 apostles, calls Jesus God. If Jesus isn't God, why did he just let him say that? He taught his disciples about God, so wouldn't he have explained how he isn't God, just His son?
Even if that's true, there are other passages which tell us Jesus is God. John 20:28-29 says:
And Thomas answered and said to him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
So Thomas, one of the original 12 apostles, calls Jesus God. If Jesus isn't God, why did he just let him say that? He taught his disciples about God, so wouldn't he have explained how he isn't God, just His son?
reply posted on 24-6-2008 @ 12:20 AM by miriam0566
reply to post by Alcove
but jesus is a god. john 1:1 calls him a god. in fact many things are called "god", including satan. hence the title of god is not inappropriate. you will notice the scripture does not call him almighty god, or yahweh. just because jesus is called "god", does not mean that he is the same as "GOD". many times did jesus acknowledge GOD's superiority
verse 17 of the same chapter
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
but jesus is a god. john 1:1 calls him a god. in fact many things are called "god", including satan. hence the title of god is not inappropriate. you will notice the scripture does not call him almighty god, or yahweh. just because jesus is called "god", does not mean that he is the same as "GOD". many times did jesus acknowledge GOD's superiority
verse 17 of the same chapter
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
reply posted on 24-6-2008 @ 02:57 AM by kacou
reply to post by Maya432
Further more; I would like to give you another input on the issue of God and any other prophets (past or present):
If any one believes that Jesus or any other prophet was better then them, then the message has been distorted in to they mind via egocentric preacher and control freak cleric.
You see the overwhelming message from all the prophets is how unique we are. This uniqueness is based on our awareness of one self. It is genuine and indestructible but only few of us can actually enjoy this knowledge of our self. This few that enjoy the understanding of they uniqueness automatically accept all other rareness of self, hence this few people tell to who ever wants to hear the truth about been a live and the connection between all of us, humans, animals, plants and every thing else. When aware of your uniqueness and the uniqueness of every thing around you, your rational mind (which you need also) automatically accept the concept of been unique and part of every thing, consequently you see your self as powerful and omnipotent as any Gods of the scriptures for the reason that every one make every one else unique.
No one is left behind as every one is part of the Whole.
Kacou
Further more; I would like to give you another input on the issue of God and any other prophets (past or present):
If any one believes that Jesus or any other prophet was better then them, then the message has been distorted in to they mind via egocentric preacher and control freak cleric.
You see the overwhelming message from all the prophets is how unique we are. This uniqueness is based on our awareness of one self. It is genuine and indestructible but only few of us can actually enjoy this knowledge of our self. This few that enjoy the understanding of they uniqueness automatically accept all other rareness of self, hence this few people tell to who ever wants to hear the truth about been a live and the connection between all of us, humans, animals, plants and every thing else. When aware of your uniqueness and the uniqueness of every thing around you, your rational mind (which you need also) automatically accept the concept of been unique and part of every thing, consequently you see your self as powerful and omnipotent as any Gods of the scriptures for the reason that every one make every one else unique.
No one is left behind as every one is part of the Whole.
Kacou
reply posted on 24-6-2008 @ 08:00 PM by Alcove
reply to post by miriam0566
Satan is referred to as a god? Sounds interesting, can you tell me where that is?
And besides that verse, there's John 8:58, where Jesus says, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am." He's directly calling himself the same God who talked to Moses in Exodus 3. In Exodus 3:14, God says "I Am has sent you." In the same conversation, God uses his proper name (usually translated LORD for whatever reason), so Jesus has to be God.
After Jesus says "I Am" people immediately try to kill him for supposed blasphemy.
[edit on 24-6-2008 by Alcove]
Satan is referred to as a god? Sounds interesting, can you tell me where that is?
And besides that verse, there's John 8:58, where Jesus says, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am." He's directly calling himself the same God who talked to Moses in Exodus 3. In Exodus 3:14, God says "I Am has sent you." In the same conversation, God uses his proper name (usually translated LORD for whatever reason), so Jesus has to be God.
After Jesus says "I Am" people immediately try to kill him for supposed blasphemy.
[edit on 24-6-2008 by Alcove]
reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 04:16 AM by jmdewey60
reply to post by Excitable_Boy
You may think that "All the gods are the same" but that does not make it true.
There are a lot of false gods.
I happen to believe that the god I should worship is the only true god, who deserves to be worshiped.
You are welcome to state your opinion on the subject.
That is why this is a forum.
No one has an exclusive right to say what is true.
This was originally in the conspiracy section and got moved because it got religious.
So, you do not have to be religious to comment.
You can say a rock or a pile of dirt is your god, if you want.
The question was "Is Jesus God?"
To me, the simple answer is to look at Baal worship.
Baal's father created the universe and went on to leave it to whatever might happen to it.
Baal went ahead and took it upon himself to step in and take care of the needs of the people.
Sounds nice but it was in direct opposition to the God of Israel.
God says "I made it and I will get involved with how things go."
If we decide that the Father of Jesus left things in order to go on vacation and left his son to take over as God, we might as well be worshiping Baal.
Jesus belongs to the family of Man.
He is our representative before God, to intercede in our behalf.
Jesus has to be all man, but could be filled with the Holy Spirit and Superior to us in his perfection.
That is what would be demanded from him to be our High Priest.
God, Himself, has lifted Jesus to the highest position possible, and does not need us to throw our two cents in to make him something higher than that.
You may think that "All the gods are the same" but that does not make it true.
There are a lot of false gods.
I happen to believe that the god I should worship is the only true god, who deserves to be worshiped.
You are welcome to state your opinion on the subject.
That is why this is a forum.
No one has an exclusive right to say what is true.
This was originally in the conspiracy section and got moved because it got religious.
So, you do not have to be religious to comment.
You can say a rock or a pile of dirt is your god, if you want.
The question was "Is Jesus God?"
To me, the simple answer is to look at Baal worship.
Baal's father created the universe and went on to leave it to whatever might happen to it.
Baal went ahead and took it upon himself to step in and take care of the needs of the people.
Sounds nice but it was in direct opposition to the God of Israel.
God says "I made it and I will get involved with how things go."
If we decide that the Father of Jesus left things in order to go on vacation and left his son to take over as God, we might as well be worshiping Baal.
Jesus belongs to the family of Man.
He is our representative before God, to intercede in our behalf.
Jesus has to be all man, but could be filled with the Holy Spirit and Superior to us in his perfection.
That is what would be demanded from him to be our High Priest.
God, Himself, has lifted Jesus to the highest position possible, and does not need us to throw our two cents in to make him something higher than that.
reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 11:10 AM by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by jmdewey60
I didn't say all gods are the same. First of all, I do not believe in "gods," as that would be Pagan not that there is anything worn with that. Lots of my friends are Pagans, mostly native peoples. I believe there is one God. So, there is NO false God. There are, however, false stories and false prophets.
You say you believe the god YOU worship is the only true god. So...you are a Pagan then? As you believe in more than one god?
I know I have the right to my opinion. I express it all the time. I haven't said what is true, I have said what I believe and what I have faith in. It is my truth. It doesn't concern me if it is anyone else's. I'm not recruiting.
Jesus is not God. God is God. You worship Baal?
from Wiki:
" 'Ba'al' can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name Hadad, Ba'al was used commonly. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Ba'al" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called ba'al and regarded in that context as a false god."
So you are a Pagan? Awesome......I have a great Pagan symbol tattooed on my back with the following written across the sybol: "I am God's temple and the spirit of God is living within me."
You may think that "All the gods are the same" but that does not make it true.
There are a lot of false gods.
I happen to believe that the god I should worship is the only true god, who deserves to be worshiped.
You are welcome to state your opinion on the subject.
That is why this is a forum.
No one has an exclusive right to say what is true.
This was originally in the conspiracy section and got moved because it got religious.
So, you do not have to be religious to comment.
You can say a rock or a pile of dirt is your god, if you want.
The question was "Is Jesus God?"
To me, the simple answer is to look at Baal worship.
Baal's father created the universe and went on to leave it to whatever might happen to it.
Baal went ahead and took it upon himself to step in and take care of the needs of the people.
I didn't say all gods are the same. First of all, I do not believe in "gods," as that would be Pagan not that there is anything worn with that. Lots of my friends are Pagans, mostly native peoples. I believe there is one God. So, there is NO false God. There are, however, false stories and false prophets.
You say you believe the god YOU worship is the only true god. So...you are a Pagan then? As you believe in more than one god?
I know I have the right to my opinion. I express it all the time. I haven't said what is true, I have said what I believe and what I have faith in. It is my truth. It doesn't concern me if it is anyone else's. I'm not recruiting.
Jesus is not God. God is God. You worship Baal?
from Wiki:
" 'Ba'al' can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name Hadad, Ba'al was used commonly. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Ba'al" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called ba'al and regarded in that context as a false god."
So you are a Pagan? Awesome......I have a great Pagan symbol tattooed on my back with the following written across the sybol: "I am God's temple and the spirit of God is living within me."
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