Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

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posted on May, 21 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


For one thread, perhaps instead of "Deny Ignorance" it can be "Ignore Denial."

I'd wager without any of our input to egg them on, it would probably drop off the first page pretty quickly.




posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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Many times conspiracy theorist exposed freemason's conspiracy but the freemasons will never believe it, what ever is exposed in front of them because they have been brainwashed in their Temple's loges, more and more says, freemasonry is a cult. that would explain their behavior.



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
OK, then. CEO is absurd. Go tell him.


Ummmm... I did.


Perhaps not in those exact terms, but I don't think much of my meaning was left to the imagination.

Start a designated "no Masons" thread and I will stay out of it... I suspect it won't get past page 2 though. Try asking an "Anti-Masonic" poster to elaborate on why he thinks/believes what he does about Masonry and listen to the crickets. Good luck.

Augustus: To use a phrase once employed against me/us: "All hat and no cattle." That is why a "Masonic Conspiracy" cannot be proven, or even reasonably demonstrated.

They've got nothing but hot air... and really it's more lukewarm than hot.

[edit on 5/21/08 by The Axeman]



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Many times conspiracy theorist exposed freemason's conspiracy but the freemasons will never believe it, what ever is exposed in front of them because they have been brainwashed in their Temple's loges, more and more says, freemasonry is a cult. that would explain their behavior.

funny, if it is so easy for Conspiracy theorist to exposed freemason's conspiracy, why is there no major outcry from the press, or the courts, or the public ? Why is there no serious paper trail of docurments that leads directly back to the lodge showing wrong doing. The Catholic chruch has been cought up in scandel, Politcal parties have been cought, major companys have been cought. Yet I have not seen an earth shaking scandel in the news envolving freemasonry. Oh that right we control the press

Get real, if there was any real dirt, some news reporter would had broke it to the press. Those dogs would hunt down thier own mothers.



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
reply to post by Roark
 


I have no idea what the ideal situation would be. As the CEO has said - and I agree - Masons need to take certain threads with a grain of salt: it's a conspiracy board, after all! Besmirching masonry is NOT akin to calling one's mother a whore.


I would, however, suggest something. Once, just once, it would be nice to see a topic about masonry, and have no masons respond. It is entirely your right to do so ... but humour us.

Those on Rockpuck's list:

Masoniclight
Apak (rarely on)
Mirthful Me (Rarely on)
Bushidomason
Rockpuck (hey thats me!)
Trinityman (moved to another site I think)
Corsig (I know he moved to another site)
Fitzgibbon
Lost in the midwest
AugustusMasononicus
Josh Norton
Choronzon

...and my own that I've sussed out in the last few hours of digging:

  • scientist
  • LightinDarkness
  • RWPBR (Real Men Ride Goats And Wear Aprons)
  • JustMe74
  • Skyfloating
  • The Axeman
  • Beelzebubba
  • Straighten Arrow
  • Roark

    Try it as an experiment. Give the "antis" the total uninhibited freedom to vent for a change. See what happens, just for the hell of it. If it gets out of hand, that's what the moderators are there for. They can ban and/or chastise to their hearts content.

    Just a thought.


  • I named those I could think of off the top of my head.

    The Axeman I don't know how I forgot him... oh yeah, hes not a Mason. Hes illoominatee


    Scientist, I was unaware he was a Mason actually, I never asked though.
    LID, he is almost never on anymore.
    RWPBR (I don't see how you got the meaning of his name) is rarely on as well
    Justme I forgot about
    Sky doesn't count because hes a Mod
    just kidding.
    Beel doesnt really post much in this forum either,
    Roark of course, how could I forget him? Just to many to remember.
    Straighten Arrow. Surprised you didn't kill someone with laughter lol.. I am interested as to know why in the world you think he is a Mason?

    Hes not. Der.

    And to HD .. I can't see what you wrote because I am ignoring you, but someone sent me your kind words. Seeing as you believe we are all "garbage" Masons I believe is how you put it, you really do radiate all the Masonic qualities you preach huh? Disgraceful. No one believes your a Mason, and your childish bantering won't make anyone else believe you either.

    only 3 degrees though .. amazing how you just told me you sat in on Scottish Rite ceremonies, and even tried to tell me I took an oath! lol..

    So sad..

    So why can no one prove a Masonic Conspiracy? Because there is none. "innocent until proven guilty" it does not work the other way around.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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    reply to post by Rockpuck
     


    Sorry. My bad.

    On Straighten, I was going by this post in this thread:
    www.abovetopsecret.com...

    But I missed this caveat:
    "I myself am not a mason and this is what I think...."



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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    Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
    It was a fairly staright-forward question as well, what made hime think that the obelisk was Masonic.


    Freemasonry has certainly utilized the symbol of the obelisk in its masonic art, aprons, and degree certificates, etc., since the love affair with everything Egyptian began in the 18th century. In a very real sense Freemasonry has become identified with the obelisk simply because of its fascination with it.

    Some examples:

    Bunker Hill Monument
    www.bookrags.com...
    /6c7qpc

    Washington Monument: Masonry's hand is everywhere, even down to the designer Robert Mills
    www.calodges.org...

    The obelisk in central park, as you know. Masons brought it here cross the vast ocean.

    To an observer from without, these things alone are enough to associate obelisks with Freemasons.

    Albert Mackey:



    In Continental Freemasonry the monument in the Master's Degree is often made in the form of an obelisk, with the letters MB inscribed upon it. (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry Vol. 2 [1909], Kessinger 2003, p. 727.)


    James Stevens Curl:



    Obelisks ... As markers of axial routes they appear in Masonic iconography, usually in association with Continental Masters' Degrees. (The Art and Architecture of Freemasonry, Overlook Press: 1991, p. 242)


    There's quite a bit of masonic-associated obelisk symbolism to be found in this essay: Freemasonic Symbolism and Georgian Gardens. Interesting quote from it:



    The obelisks in freemasonic symbolism were associated with the sun and mythologized astronomical phenomena. They were symbols of continuity, power, stability, resurrection and immortality. At Stourhead this symbolism of the obelisk was reinforced by a copper sun or"mythra" which surmounted it. The proof of its existence is given by a poem published in the December issue (1748) of The Gentleman's Magazine and by a report given in 1755 by James Hanway which described the obelisk as one hundred feet tall and situated on the highest point at the end of the terrace called Fir Walk (59). An obelisk, situated at the centre of an octagonal pool (Fig. 19), was also present at Stowe (dismantled in 1759) together with a pyramid sixty feet high (Fig. 20) which was probably the last building conceived for Stowe by Vanbrugh. It was already in place in 1724 when Viscount Perceval visited Stowe : "The Pyramid at the End of one of the walks is a copy in miniature of the most famous one in Egypt, and the only thing of its kind I think in England (60)."


    And another:


    Furthermore, as mentioned above, Burlington's miniature Pantheon and its obelisk in circular space, also bear a masonic message (Fig. 22). Coustos explained the masonic symbol of the point within a circle: "the Compass being placed with one of its points on the ground cannot fail in the correctness of the circle which the other point describes, thus also the Master should circumscribe his actions so they be without fault, and thus complying set a good example to others (63)." An engraving of Claremont, recently discussed by John Harris and which he dated to the period of Newcastle's patronage of Kent, shows a miniature domed pantheon-like temple (unexecuted) with a four column portico on the top of the garden amphitheatre (64). Similarly to Chiswick, in the centre of the circular pond in front of the Pantheon, was set an obelisk. (Fig. 23) The same pantheon-like building with an obelisk in front of it is shown on the first page of a Masonic song-book published in Berlin. (Fig. 24) and appeared in a text vignette in in Shaftesbury's Characteristik of Men.. (1714) where it was shown as "Templum felicitatis" (Fig. 25).



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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    reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
     


    Actually Freemasonry does not use an obelisk.

    I could understand .. actually this is kinda wierd... but I could understand if conspiracy theorist thought that specific types of Greco/Roman "pillars" where Masonic..

    But for some reason no one has ever brought that forward as a conspiracy. Shows a lack of research if you ask me!


    Obelisks: No.
    Pillars: Yes.




    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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    Originally posted by Rockpuck
    Obelisks: No.
    Pillars: Yes.



    Wrong.

    Mackey: right; Rockpuck: wrong.
    Curl: right; Rockpuck: wrong.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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    I have a story about Freemasonry, that for me, proves some things; obviously, you are going to have to take my word for it, whether or not you do is up to you, obviously.

    I knew a man, who was a rather interesting fellow; we were talking one time, and got on the topic of Masons. I told him my father was a mason(which he is) and he told me to wait a minute, and went into the other room. He came out with 2 rather large books. They were labelled something to the effect of Encyclopedia of Freemasonry(i forget the actual title, this was a few years back) and the copyright date was approximately 1782 or so. As I had things to do shortly after, I had little time to read(looking back, i would have taken more time.) So I looked up but one name: Adam Weishaupt. Nothing in there really that any person who has done their homework doesnt know, but certainly from a more credible source than most.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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    reply to post by Vilkata
     

    Shame you don't recall the title. 1782 is an early date. I am not sure when Mackey did his encycolpedia, but I don't belive it was that early.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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    Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
    Albert Mackey:



    In Continental Freemasonry the monument in the Master's Degree is often made in the form of an obelisk, with the letters MB inscribed upon it. (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry Vol. 2 [1909], Kessinger 2003, p. 727.)
    Actually, that explains a lot... Continental Freemasonry being the key word there. Obelisks don't mean squat in American lodges, but it's possible that they do in lodges now considered by Americans and UGLE as "irregular." So, of course any Mason here who doesn't recognize Grand Orient de France is going to hear you talk about Masonic obelisks and wonder what the heck you're talking about. (And from what I've gathered, most of the Masons on ATS are from "regular" lodges.)

    [edit on 5/21/2008 by JoshNorton]



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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    Originally posted by JoshNorton

    Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
    Albert Mackey:



    In Continental Freemasonry the monument in the Master's Degree is often made in the form of an obelisk, with the letters MB inscribed upon it. (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry Vol. 2 [1909], Kessinger 2003, p. 727.)
    Actually, that explains a lot... Continental Freemasonry being the key word there. Obelisks don't mean squat in American lodges, but it's possible that they do in lodges now considered by Americans and UGLE as "irregular." So, of course any Mason here who doesn't recognize Grand Orient de France is going to hear you talk about Masonic obelisks and wonder what the heck you're talking about. (And from what I've gathered, most of the Masons on ATS are from "regular" lodges.)

    [edit on 5/21/2008 by JoshNorton]


    Irregular? Clandestine? Similar to the rejection of Prince Hall as legit, I guess. Well, ya, masons are a stuffy and elitist bunch. Sure.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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    Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

    Originally posted by Rockpuck
    Obelisks: No.
    Pillars: Yes.



    Wrong.

    Mackey: right; Rockpuck: wrong.
    Curl: right; Rockpuck: wrong.


    ER, seeing as we just did the degree involving said pillars, I will have to say Mackey can eat my shorts.

    Obelisk: no.
    Pillars: Yes.

    Now go find a conspiracy about how Freemasons made every ionic pillar ever made!



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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    I think that the fact that the freemasons are a secret society whose roots can be traced back for thousands of years and their status in our current society kind of invites conspiracy theories. What can be considered as proof too a conspiracy theory? Anybody can look at solid evidence and dismiss it just because they are not a 1st person witness. I have seen a lot of credible evidence shot down just people choose not to believe what they are seeing. All we can do is put the pieces of the puzzle together and speculate.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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    reply to post by JoshNorton
     


    Really though, you guys have the most petty fights I've ever witnessed. "We hereby declare your enterprise irregular sir." Huh, why's that, bro? "Cause you've gone and acknowledged an irregular and 'unrecognized' Masonic organization in Louisiana." Uhh Ohh.

    "OK, then. Strike them from the fold. They be irregulars from now on!"



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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    off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


     



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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    Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

    Originally posted by Rockpuck
    Now go find a conspiracy about how Freemasons made every ionic pillar ever made!


    *insert rude comment here*


    I really don't see a need for that kind of talk. I cannot fathom how my comment could ever incite such a barbaric and irresponsible retort like that.

    [edit on 5/21/2008 by Rockpuck]



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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    Just look up information on Albert Pike and then see his statue in Washington.

    Don't be stupid, at least demolish the statue, that way at least you might be able to hide the facts that are in plain sight.



    posted on May, 21 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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    Originally posted by Rockpuck
    I really don't see a need for that kind of talk. I cannot fathom


    Therein lies the problem. You're oblivious (because you're so young and high on yourself) to how incredibly cocky, annoying and disrespectful you really are.





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