Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
I did not say that I thought you guys controlled ATS; its more of a "throwing your weight around" situation. And since you have the numbers it is akin to a bullying faction.

You haven't control of ATS yet, IMO, but you certainly desire to attain such a position.

And I have no doubt that the brethren will be well offended by said remarks.

Hey dude,

I wouldn't say I'm offended, but definitely curious about your bullying/numbers comments.

What would happen in your perfect world (read: forum)?

Would there be a fairly balanced number of conspiracy theorists* & Masons?

Would the conspiracy theorists present articulate, well-thought-out arguments supported by sources who don't necessarily believe in reptilian aliens?

Coz I'D certainly find that a lot more interesting...

Nevertheless, the fact that there are more Masons replying is certainly not the fault of the Masons. I would think it unreasonable to expect that the Masons on this forum withhold their right of reply just to pander to the conspiracy theorists' flagging numbers.

Wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
You guys take yourselves way too seriously.

I disagree with this remark, I have to say. I've seen many instances of Masons on this forum poking fun at themselves and their own strange practices.

The fact that we take the DEBATE fairly seriously is, I think, very generous on our part towards those who claim we're chipping children's heads and worshipping Satan...

(* - I use this term specifically to avoid pigeonholing with the term "Anti-Masons". I'm certainly not suggesting that the Masons aren't conspiracy theorists in their own right. They just tend not to theorise about Masonry as a conspiracy... obviously)

Fire, you just posted the junkyard dogs of the Mason posters here,with the exception of josh, who seems to have reason.
If Masonry takes a good man and make him better "rockpuck" must have been really a challenge and a work still in progress?
I cant say there is a real conspiracy involved by the bully Mason posters here, just typical forum hogging, same as I have seen in the past on other forums I post on.

Don Dyar Master Mason, but just 3, degrees.

Generally speaking, I would like to add to the "debate" that it's a bit off the mark for anyone to suggest that no Mason ( I don't say Masons because we are talking about individuals) on ATS has a dog in the fight as far as conspiracies are concerned. I've seen quite a few, just none that believe in a Masonic one. But there are a few Freemasons that have thier opinions on other conspiracies. Some even joined the Freemasons in the first place to see if there was some Masonic conspiracy.

Yet somehow I think that if they actually found there to be a "Masonic conspiracy" they wouldn't be Freemasons much longer. I happen to be of the opinion that most Freemasons joined because they thought it would be a good way to inject some good into this world, not covertly control or destroy it. I don't know call me crazy but that's the way I see it.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by lazy1981]

[edit on 20-5-2008 by lazy1981]

Why?

Why no one can prove a Masonic conspiracy?

That's easy enough... Because you can't prove anything by copy and paste posts and poor quality YouTube video links.

There.

I said it.

That's all that has ever been posted here regarding Freemasonry and it's supposed stranglehold on humanity... Nothing of substance, nothing investigative, nothing but hearsay and innuendo; and that is typically delivered in the most sophomoric of terms.

Masonic Monkeys, not just for "MM" anymore...

Mirth, the Monkey business has nothing to do with Masonry these people would act the same anywhere, if it was in a bar or in a church.
They were just caught in a lodge. Its sad but things happen everywhere.

Don Dyar Master Mason

I'd be happy to see this non-Mason thread experiment take place. The original post would have to be well-worded to keep out all the Brothers who feel that their opinions are still valid in this place, though.

I have to say, though, I honestly still don't see how Masonic responses constitute bullying.

Some people seem oblivious to the fact that we've been accused of everything from child molestation to Satanic worship, and equally oblivious to the natural human reaction that these kind of accusasions might evoke.

That’s not bullying?

The fact that (much of the time) the authors of the accusations are pitifully inarticulate suckers DOESN’T immediately qualify them as victims of bullying. Yeah, so many of the Masonic members are older and more experienced. Does that mean we should coddle the kid who's just graduated high school and thinks that David Icke is a bastion of Truth?

Masons on this forum are (variously) patient, informative, angry, kind, and passionate in their responses - just like everyone else on this forum. So how are our responses bullying? Just coz we're consistent and tend to agree with each other? Meh.

I think some people need to grow a thicker skin and, if Masonic responses don’t breach the forum’s terms and conditions, they should stop crying like bedwetting Mama’s boys and let their accusations stand up against critique (and maybe actually RESPOND to the critiques for once).

If Masonic responses DO breach the terms and conditions, hell, they should be reported.

Just my thoughts.

:-)

A point is, Masonry is not the same in every state. This has become very clear to me here.
In this state, there is not the separation of the Masonic bodies as it appears other areas have.
They are all tied together by a state Masonic Alliance, yet another body.
I dont think that is a good thing. So, Masons cant make blanket statements regarding those issues.



Don Dyar Master Mason

[edit on 21-5-2008 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Are we looking at the same thread, duder?

You're talking about the obelisk one where the O.P. (Twitchy) basically acknowledged that the purpose (or at least a pleasant side effect) of his posts was to anger Masons?

The one where he was almost instantly berated by a moderator for doing so?

Your point is not well-served by page 1 of the thread, but I'll keep going. (I'm a slow reader...)

OK, I've read a couple more pages and, I'm not buying your point that their behaviour was in any way inappropriate to the forum, man.

The Masons in that thread are (at their best) extremely informative about the Craft and pretty damn patient with the O.P (especially Trinityman). At worst, they are a bit snippy about Twitchy's refusal to actually make a Masonic link, which was kinda the entire point of the thread.

It was a pretty crap Original Post, and nothing he said subsequently actually backed up his assertation.

Which reminds me once again of why I find many of the anti-Masons so frustrating. I may have mentioned it already...

Fire_In _The_Minds_Of_Men

Magazines about cycling are usually read by cyclists.
To claim that the overwhelming response to letters in cycling magazines by cyclists, rather than non-cyclists, is 'over-zealous' or 'taken too seriously' would be absurd.

Similarly, forum threads about Freemasonry are usually read by Freemasons...

Originally posted by Saurus
Fire_In _The_Minds_Of_Men

Magazines about cycling are usually read by cyclists.
To claim that the overwhelming response to letters in cycling magazines by cyclists, rather than non-cyclists, is 'over-zealous' or 'taken too seriously' would be absurd.

Similarly, forum threads about Freemasonry are usually read by Freemasons...

OK, then. CEO is absurd. Go tell him.

Originally posted by Saurus
Magazines about cycling are usually read by cyclists.

Your right though. I do see your point.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
I did not say that I thought you guys controlled ATS; its more of a "throwing your weight around" situation. And since you have the numbers it is akin to a bullying faction.

The numbers of non-Masons far outstrip those who are mebers of the Fraternity. Perhaps if the content of some threads was more substantial it would attract more conspiracy theorists to participate.

You haven't control of ATS yet, IMO, but you certainly desire to attain such a position.

I have no wish to control Above Top Secret, I have my own wants and desires and the managing of this website is not one of them, please do not over generalize.

And I have no doubt that the brethren will be well offended by said remarks. You guys take yourselves way too seriously.

No, I actually have a sense of humor regarding myself and Masonry, sometimes need one to particpate in the antics that occur on this site.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


Try it as an experiment. Give the "antis" the total uninhibited freedom to vent for a change. See what happens, just for the hell of it. If it gets out of hand, that's what the moderators are there for. They can ban and/or chastise to their hearts content.

Just a thought.

If they want to start a new "No Mason" thread, I will humor them and not post there.

But...

We have to remember that the motto of ATS is "Deny Ignorance". If we let lies go unchallenged, aren't we aiding and abetting ignorance?