If New Free Country existed would you move?

Originally posted by Sannhet
Come over here to Norway! youre more than welcome!

youtube.com...


Lived here all my life, and love it here, your more free here then anywere else
on the planet, execpt if you live alone in the forest or something..


[edit on 12-5-2008 by Sannhet]

Uh, with tax rates ranging from 28%-51%, thats not exactly freedom.

Thats called government enslavement.

Originally posted by Solarskye

What would our forefathers think if we just gave up on the American dream and headed out to another land with everything broken and unfixed in this one

They would agree to it, because they did the same thing themselves. Went to a new land and then fought for their independence at that new land. They left their British homeland because of the tyranny and oppression they were facing. If we left for the same reasons, the forefathers would understand.

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
It already does, it is a far away place called TEXAS. I can't think of much your new country has to offer me. I pretty much do whatever the hell I want now, and would rather TX just split from the US.

And some of the US would rather the TX split from it as well

In seriousness, Texas still has federal law and the federal bank infringing on it, just like the other States.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by rikriley

 

I would try to move, definately! I used to be proud to be an American. Now I am embarrassed and ashamed. I hate this place. And I hate to say it because it sounds terrible, but I hate Geo. Bush, and his entire criminal family, and the maniacal criminal, Dick Cheney. I'm fed up with a congress that takes bribes to stab us in the back and betray the country they claim to serve. And I'm tired of being a slave to corporations.

Many are unhappy with what is taking place in Washington D.C. and the corruption we read about in the headlines. Large sums of money can corrupt people especially the lobby handouts. How is it that politicians in D.C. making $140,000 a year end up becoming millionaires before their terms are up? In "Freedom" there will be no lobbies for special interests or any other reason.

Again Freedom, the country is a mythical place and this thread gives a person a chance to voice their opinions and share their ideas on how they would like this new country to be set up and established as a free nation. I say let Freedom ring. Rik Riley

Switzerland !!!

(Not perfect but about as close as you're going to get)

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Hi Lucid Lunacy, your signature says it all when it comes to banks and the invisible or secret government. Have you noticed lately in any small town or city there is a bank on every block?

Does this tell us something that banks are big business and are in the business of lending you leveraged money. In other words the banks do not have to actually have the amount in the bank to give you a loan. The banks can create money out of thin air as does our Federal Reserve, correction their Federal Reserve. Rik Riley



[edit on 14-5-2008 by rikriley]

Many are unhappy with what is taking place in Washington D.C. and the corruption we read about in the headlines. Large sums of money can corrupt people especially the lobby handouts. How is it that politicians in D.C. making $140,000 a year end up becoming millionaires before their terms are up?

I love Jesse Ventura's point on this. Who in their right mind would spend over $100 million dollars campaigning for a job that only pays $140,000? That doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that politicians aren't campaigning for the job itself, but for a chunk of perks and power that come with the job, and the long-term financial benefit once you've stopped.

I mean if you really wanted to be President, then to me that says you have a compulsion to do a job that helps benefit society, and would do a job that did that whether it was president or not. So to see past Presidents who were supposedly for the people then take high power jobs at oil companies or the Carlyle group really goes against them and shows their true values.

Therefore, if there was a new land called Freedom, then it should be against the law to spend more money on campaigning for the job of a public representative then that job actually pays.

reply to post by Alethia


Hi Alethia, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to spending all that money for campaigning. Can you believe the 100s of millions of dollars spent to get elected it is insane. Can you believe what that money could do to help children, retired, sick, needy or some needed project.

The real problem I see is this, that politicians when it comes to campaigning are not held accountable for what they promise. In the country, Freedom I would like to see a promise doctrine if you promise something to the people and do not fulfill what you have promised you are held accountable. If you can not knowingly fulfill that promise do not speak of it period.

Now if someone says I will try to get legislation passed when I am elected to get something done then we the people must make sure the politician when elected fulfills their obligation or be recalled plane and simple. Many will not like these rules because politicians have been able to get away with it for hundreds of years. In other words let me sell you some snake oil. Rik Riley

reply to post by Alethia


Nice! A star for your post. Way to much money is being spent on being elected to a job that doesn't pay that much.

Why can't we stop this now and straighten out America? Is it too late?

reply to post by slackerwire


and even with that tax i make 18.000kr (3600dollars) a month, with all my monthly bills paid and rent, i have 3000dollars left.
thats more than enough to have a VERY good life standard over here.
its not enslavement and thats pretty averege payment for a person here.
i pay 36% tax, and its ok, the tax goes to pay for a heartsurgery for an old man, or buys a car to a disabled person. for me thats fine.
i have allergies (eksem) , and get free medicine, and a 2 week free vacation a year to tropical places in january, and thats paid by the taxpayers. and i only have allergies!! if i were paralyzed like my neighbor, i would get a free house,car and monthly salory to help pay for food etc. thats were my tax goes, and i have no problems with it. hey! wait! maybe i have no problems with it cause im a slave to the goverment maybe they have like hyponotized me or something





[edit on 14-5-2008 by Sannhet]

reply to post by rikriley


Let me play Devil's Advocate, here. Again, I'm on your side, but nothing gets done proper in a room of yesmen.

First, if the Government, Nation, Country, however we wish to describe Freedom, is new... there will be no jobs. It's from scratch, so having a job lined up is out of the question.

Also, Government jobs are out, as there is no money in the system to support them (or buildings and infastructure).

Now, tying money into the 'cost' of moving to Freedom casts alot of people out immediately, some of your staunchest defenders in fact. Two points here. (1) Ask how many of the supporters here on this forum for Freedom would/could legally and morally (I assume illegal and immoral gain would bar one from Freedom unless it was in the most Robin Hood of ways) come up with the... let's say... $100,000 it takes to be granted Citizenship. After all, it's not like it's $1,000,000... it's a reachable number. But how many COMMON, GOOD and DECENT FOLK have that kind of money accessible to escape this country and be accepted to Freedom? (2) Many great minds are born poor and only achieve wealth (if ever) late in life. Take Albert Einstien. His genious could surely be used in an endevour as such, but his limited resources early in life would quiet possibly bar his entry.

So let us focus on two things. How to support the Government so it can run, thus being there to benefit the People. How to accept and grant citizenship and on what merits.

reply to post by Sannhet


Hey that sounds good to me

I am curious, what is your line of work? You said that pay is about average? How does the general cost of items compare to my unworldly frame of reference (never left the USA)? For instance, is a jug of milk taxed so heavily that it costs near twice as much as what I would pay, thus ultimately your 3000 allowance is eqiuv to say my 2000 one? Also, do they give compensations like that to people with psychological disorders?

[edit on 043131p://14u35 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


First off , i work at a storage facility, i drive forklifts
Yes averege pay for an adult here is from 15-20.000 kr (2000-4000dollars)
Of course there are poor people here too, they are everywhere in the world
in my city with about 100.000 citizens there is 4 people without homes, i know that cause they were in the local paper nagging about more money (they use all the social benefits to get more drugs)
the costs for a jug of milk is 12 kr, like 2 dollars. The cost of living is higher here then the us, but then again money pr.capita is much higher. and healthcare is free. noooo soscialism!
as for the psychological stuff, if you have a disorder that needs treatment you get free treatment . dont really know anyone with psychological disorders so cant really answer that .


i am not saying living here youre richer then in the us, but "slackerwire " said my high tax was "goverment enslavement" , wich it is not!

youtube.com... move over here! i have a spare room!



[edit on 14-5-2008 by Sannhet]

To raise revenue more then likely with the land mass of the country "Freedom" there are valuable minerals that can be sold or traded for goods and services. Many will assume most settlers will be poor but this will not be the case. Before you are accepted as a citizen of Freedom you are interviewed and the one question you will be asked is what can you bring to the table. You will be surprised what people will bring to the table when it comes to their freedom in the New Country "Freedom". Rik Riley

(Quotes by John F. Kennedy)

[Quote] And so, my fellow Americans ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

[Quote] Communism has never come to power in a country that was not disrupted by war or corruption, or both.

[Quote] A child miseducated is a child lost.

reply to post by rikriley


So the State makes money of Mining? How does it build the mines, and are they State run or Privately owned? If Private, then you must tax them to get State gains, if ran by the State you are taking some of that 'Freedom' out of Freedom.

As for the question, 'What will you bring to Freedom'... 'A Dream of posterity and prosperity.' How can you turn down that answer, which every broke and disenchanted will be chanting? After all, isn't that the 'dream' of Freedom?

Give me your weak, your huddled masses. That's America. Freedom is sounding a bit more like 'Give me your successful to bring their ivory towers'.

Now, it's a working theory so let's not get trite here. This is how it would be spun.

I hope these exercises help you understand the difficulties, and in time come up with a better practical purpose to the Idea.

Originally posted by BradKell
reply to post by rikriley

 

So the State makes money of Mining? How does it build the mines, and are they State run or Privately owned? If Private, then you must tax them to get State gains, if ran by the State you are taking some of that 'Freedom' out of Freedom.

As for the question, 'What will you bring to Freedom'... 'A Dream of posterity and prosperity.' How can you turn down that answer, which every broke and disenchanted will be chanting? After all, isn't that the 'dream' of Freedom?

Give me your weak, your huddled masses. That's America. Freedom is sounding a bit more like 'Give me your successful to bring their ivory towers'.

Now, it's a working theory so let's not get trite here. This is how it would be spun.

I hope these exercises help you understand the difficulties, and in time come up with a better practical purpose to the Idea.

The mining and exploration operations will be of private enterprise and if it is government owned land which would be the case in many instances because most land would be unsettled, a lease or lease purchase arrangement will be consummated with the mining company.

If ownership of the land is by the Freedom Land government which includes mineral rights the mining Corporation would pay an overriding Royalty interest on Each ton of raw minerals pulled or mined from the ground. If minerals are to be shipped overseas or outside the borders of Freedom Land a duty will be imposed based on a raw per ton rate. If the land is owned by a mining company or corporation a tonnage tax per ton will be imposed on the mines owner, owners or corporation including duties if minerals go across Freedom Land's outside borders.

A Minister of Mining and land management shall be appointed to inspect said mines and keep within environmental standards set forth by agency. If government is forced to share in the burden of environmental protection of the mine and surrounding area an environmental tax will be imposed to help off set cost of clean up and of restoration projects.

No profits tax will be incurred by the mining operations and no taxes with held from workers pay checks in other words no income tax.

Many intricate details must be worked out but will be covered in the rules set forth by the Minister of Mining and land management Department. Rik Riley




[edit on 14-5-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by BradKell


We in Freedom Land will give individuals the opportunity to settle even if it includes a few ivory towers. Educated Men and Women's minds and ideas are their greatest assets as well as their capital and if they start from scratch this is considered capital in Freedom Land.

Remember each person of the age of 20 thru the age of 70 that is accepted into Freedom Land shall be given one parcel of 100 acres of land per family living together while they last. Another stipulation is that the land given to new citizen can not lay vacant and it must be utilized and worked to help grow the new economy. This land can be sold, leased or traded amongst the new citizens and zoning issues will be addressed. If an individual needs collateral to start a new business or enterprise this is a start using the land or portion there of as their leverage. I do not have all the answers in starting a New Country that is why it will take great minds with great ideas. Rik Riley








[edit on 15-5-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by rikriley


The more I know about what is "really" going on here. I find the American Dream to be more like a nightmare than I thought possible!

So hows the weather in Freedom? And when can I go!!!!!!!!!!

But at the same time, I feel all good men have a responsibility to stand against evil. If not, evil=the negative easily consumes and thrives! No matter if Freedom was a real place. Eventually the evil we left behind would grow and be upon us again. Leaving, IMHO, would only delay facing this.

If all good men would stand together...IN UNISON!!! The negativity, would find itself unbelievably outnumbered!!!! This is thier WORST NIGHTMARE...but they have faith in our belief in duality, seperation and fear to the point that they assume this to be impossible.

I ask myslef, is this impossible? Or just improbable? And what would have to happen to catalyze such a movement? And what, besides fear, stops us as Americans to demand justice, freedom and the rights promised to us by our forefathers? That the corrupt, bloated and self serving have taken, are taking and are planning to take in the futer?


"If you want to test a mans charicter, give him power."

reply to post by GhostR1der


I'm a kiwi myself and if the opportunity arose I don't think even 100 acres of free land would be enough to get me to become a citizen of the new country . I very regard the Republic or rather the US political model has being very unsound because it puts the country future in the hands of a minority by design .

Give a parliamentary democracy with Proportional Representation or in the very least a step away from First Past the Post and I would be on my way . Since the majority of people on this thread favour a Republic I guess I would have to help found another nation elsewhere making me a "Founding Father. "

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Hi Anonymous, this is why a screening process is necessary to keep out undesirables. Humans with minds can make things wonderful, miserable or make things horrible.

Unlike most countries their will be a Weather Bureau Agency that will be in charge of the weather. If we need rain we make it rain if not we let the sun shine and if we in Freedom Land need clouds to control ground moisture evaporation and humidity we create clouds. If we have the technology to stop or shut down hurricanes and tornadoes we will utilize that technology. The question will be if your changing the weather what if something would go wrong? Everyday something goes wrong with the weather across this Earth. Think how much energy would be saved by controlling the temperature. This is why most people have a thermostat in their homes to control the temperature utilizing heating and cooling.

In Freedom Land we are not trying to play God when it comes to weather like some will think. Everyone entering to become a citizen of Freedom land knows about the controlling of the weather thru the latest advances in technology before they are welcomed.

If countries had their choice they would in most cases like to control their own weather to a certain extent including temperature. Given the large land area of Freedom Land a diversity in weather will be enjoyed. No different then if you need to turn on the sprinkling system to water the lawn. This will be the most controversial subject to date other then what specific form of government will be chosen. Rik Riley


[edit on 15-5-2008 by rikriley]