If New Free Country existed would you move?

Hi Cyberian, I agree but what would our forefathers think of the U.S.A., our country today if they were all alive to give their input? Would they be happy or sad the way things are going or would they shed many tears? Maybe they would be pleasantly surprised or devastated. Rik Riley

Rik, your post makes me think that this has happened before. "Freedom" was established before ... many times ... and many times it was invaded by men who are selfish and greedy. I am afraid the Copernican principle stands - if it has happened before, it will happen again.

I'm playing along to this fictional land that is not here, but I think America is a beautiful diverse piece of land that can be free with the ideas of this freedom nation. The only problem is getting everyone to agree that it's time for a change and only people coming together can make that change.
We really can't leave a mess and make another one. This is how our debt as a nation and individuals has come about. The first thing to do with debt is pay what ever you can to pay it off. You don't go out and make another debt and another. The same with this country ( America ) which was founded with freedom, justice, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There is a price to pay for this kind of nation. Is anyone ready to pay this price for their children and their children?

reply to post by rikriley

---

Thank you Rick, that was very thoughtful.

I am not one for revoluton, but when the house crumbles, I would like to think there will be enough people who remember what America was intended to be, to build another one. Someday.

Till then we must remember to be Americans, despite political correctness.
I believe that if anyone ever trys to silence us, they will have crossed a very real line, and it will not go well for them. So long as men can speak the legend of America, she will be built again.

here here!!! with one caveat: I AM for revolution if there is no other recourse...my hope it that when or if it comes it will be a reflection of folks who have a learned a deep lesson and treasure the best and the highest, are their brother's keeper, and loving stewards of the earth....but "speak the legend of America" ....that gave me goosebumps

What would our forefathers think if we just gave up on the American dream and headed out to another land with everything broken and unfixed in this one. It made me think about all the sacrifice that kept this land free and the borders open so others could live the American dream. The administration is messed up but America is still America and can make a come back.

Yes Yes Yes need I say more, I guess I have to or Ill have point taken away for having to short of a reply. When you get to a point when you feel so much discust with the criminals that run our lives you have to start wondering what another place would be like, however considering that the first people sent here were thiefs and other outcast from Brittian you cant expect a whole lot.

Come over here to Norway! youre more than welcome!

youtube.com...


Lived here all my life, and love it here, your more free here then anywere else
on the planet, execpt if you live alone in the forest or something..


[edit on 12-5-2008 by Sannhet]

It already does, it is a far away place called TEXAS. I can't think of much your new country has to offer me. I pretty much do whatever the hell I want now, and would rather TX just split from the US.

reply to post by Solarskye

---

America is as strong or weak as we the people allow it to be. We have brilliant minds and hard working dedicated people to make things happen instead of watching things happen in this great country.

For things to change we the people can not wait for our government to change we the people must make the change. We have the greatest Constitution ever created and written in known history among all the nations that ever existed.

Our Declaration Of Independence draft was a Declaration of Independence for the 13 colonies from Great Britain and was written by a 33 year old known as Thomas Jefferson. It starts out in the 2nd paragraph by saying, We hold these truths to be-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Now that is some kind of deep thought, remember many men and women plus countries around the world do not buy into that way of thinking.

Not one man or woman makes a nation but the people as a whole who believe and nurture that nation keep it alive with their blood, sweat and tears and their dedication of their undying love for that nation. Rik Riley



[edit on 12-5-2008 by rikriley]

I love where I live now. I would only leave if conditions were so horrible than remaining healthy and happy to any meaningful degree was entirely or mostly untenable. I would also try, through the only weapon I choose to use, words and occasionally song (however ineffectual many perceive that to be - it's all I am capable of doing that won't burden my conscience,) to alleviate the problems here before jumping ship, because it was a great experiment and it would break my heart to see it fail completely once and for all.

I don't consider myself Christian (or a member of any religion for that matter,) but having studied several religions, I would apply the quote from the bible, "The physician's place is with the sick." (For what little good I could do anyway, that is.)

Yes, In minute!! The country would have to be a true democracy! based on the Greek system.. Republics are aways doomed to fail due to corruption...Example Roman Empire and now the U.S... The Greeks were eliminated by the Romans, the system did not fail but was destroyed, So we would need to be a military society as well somewhat like sparta exept for the whole baby thing the army will be all volunteer but we will fight because we want to not because we have to.. and we will be Pollution free using solar and free energies.. Everything planted would be organic and no harsh chemicals will be used on anything. We will have the best education the world has ever seen, not seen since the Greek times, our people would be in Fantastic shape because Exercising will be a part of our lifestyle instead of television.. No junk foods allowed Mcdonalds will be banned for sure. What else...Medical technologies will focus on cures not treatments, we will ban any drug that causes more harm then good. which mean 99 percent of drugs on the martket.. And every man and woman will have equal say in this new goverment... Money will be gold not paper... and everyone shall have a base salary of food, shelter and some gold. also free medical care.. all taken as a percentage of the countries profits, there will be no taxes.. the country will support itself thru goverment industrial production.(new technologies, cures etc) , free enterprise and capitalism will be also supported and rewarded accordingly there will be no individual leader... we all have seen how that story goes..The question now is where do we go? most land has been taken... Perhaps the only way to go is up? We can be a space colony.? rocket technology has gotten extremely safe and cheap just look at virgins galactic ... Mars or perhaps a large space station? If the # hits the fan here on the planet Humans can still survive... any other ideas?

reply to post by rikriley

---

I would definitely move in a heartbeat & erect a 500 ft tall statue to the Great Ones at the entrance!!

Cascadia

This actually exists....

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

---

Right, roads. And since your land is between my land and my friends land, and we all are free and you don't want your land to be a hinderance, we'll just place a highway here. I mean, we'll have to demolish your house since it's in the way and all, but the other 80 acres of your free land is still yours. Right? And then my Mom is to the North, so we need to make a junction there. And the ocean to the south, that's food! Just walk with me, we'll discuss this.

Oh! I'm sorry to inform the head of Freedom that my poor neighbor feel while walking a hilly path and died. Guess we'll just split his acreas up best as we can and continue being free.

And here-in lies the problem. People group together to gain advantage. With no taxes to pay for Public Services like Police they come at individuals ill equipped to fight them off.

"With great power comes great responsibility", taught to Spider Man by his mother. Problem is, we aren't all Spider Man, some of us are Venom. Freedom would be a burned char in no time, with evil arising to take control of this 'great place'.

It seems like such a great idea, but without people willing and able to stand up for such a cause it would surely be attacked and fail. To be able they must be equipped, which comes out of their own pockets or paid for by the government. No taxes limits those options, as well as making it impossible for the Nation of Freedom to help support Industry (or Commercial or Residental, for that matter).

While some will be happy with just ONE acre of land and making do in the true old style, many now that they have tasted the flavor of Electricity, Internet, and other such things could never leave such indefinately behind. How would such things be possible in this new 'from scratch' Nation of Freedom?

Now, you want a Flat Tax across the board? I'm in. Problem is, just like every Government previous, Corrupt individuals rise to positions of power and Corrupt the process. It's not America or the Government that's flawed, it's Corrupt people who have risen to power and destroyed what this Nation was about. The Constitution is a just writing, as is the Bill of Rights. Most admendmants make sense. The crap is usually put in by the Corrupt, which today are many in number.

Regardless of your Idea, or how amazing and pure it is, there must be a way to protect it from Corruption. Kings felt if only one ruled then only one could corrupt. Sadly Corrupts rose to be Kings. Democracies felt if the Majority rule it would take large numbers of Corrupts to destroy the ideals... again they rose to the challenge. If Religion ruled then God would lead. But the voice of man is what teaches the words of God, and Corrupts have risen to power there as well.

It's not the idea, it's not the principle. Many have these, and many models are outstanding. (No greater government ON PAPER exists than Communism. On PAPER it feeds and houses EVERYONE equally and all things needed are taken care of. It's the heads of state syphoning off the top that leave the poor farmer starving even though he grew the food to begin with. Corruption and Logistics kill Communism more than anything else). The problem is how to keep these Idea's free and pure, how to fight off CORRUPTION.

Seriously, I want changes too. However, the US isn't the problem. The Constitution isn't the problem. Neither was England, or the Church. The problem was, and is, Corruption.

reply to post by thefreepatriot

---

Hi thefreepatriot, the ancient Greeks had incredible wisdom and a tremendous belief structure. A Pure Democracy, Representative democracy or Republic that is the question. The original land mass available for "Freedom's" development is the size of Alaska, Texas, Montana and California combined with room for expansion. Another question how many people can Freedom support internally? This will be determined by the people.

The need for a very strong armed force is necessary to protect this Nation called Freedom. The Ease of entry is not easy and let the screening process of application begin. What does each individual bring to the table to contribute to the whole of the country Freedom? In the country called "Freedom" words do mean something and respect for the rights of others is expected.

There shall not be a race card and you enter "Freedom" as a contributing human being with all citizens rights and abiding by the laws of the land set forth. Good ideas have been given by you, thefreepatriot and many others. We as settlers need good idea people to grow and compete whether on Earth or a space colony on another planet or Moon. Rik Riley

Quotes by Thomas Jefferson

[Quote] All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

[Quote] Educate and inform the whole mass of people. They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of Liberty.

reply to post by rikriley

---

Mr. Rik Riley,

again I say the idea is sound, as it has been the numerous time previous to coming off your lips (or your finger tips, as it is). The problem is taking it off the paper and into reality.

Now, I am very big on the IDEA you express, I'm sure many are. I am interested in learning more about your version of this idea, and sharing ideas of my own. However, very real questions must be answered, even if the topic is completely theoretical.

I humbly ask, please, read my previous post and give me a reply on my stance. I know I didn't address the post to you, it was another poster I illustrated the point to. However, it is in context to this entire thread so instead of hi-jacking more space to reguritate the point I'll merely ask you to respond to that previous post.

You are also very right in Population having a major effect on this idea. And how one is chosen to be a 'citizen' of such a Nation. Elitist backlash could be very severe.

reply to post by BradKell

---

Hi BradKell, this is where proper planning and fair and just laws must be written and followed along with a strong and unbreakable Constitution by we the people.

If a persons entry into the country is excepted they must accept the limited governed nations form of government. Trouble makers intending to disrupt or undermind the country before entering will be sent packing. Much is expected little is given except the 100 acres of land that you are given to help start and settle this new country, Freedom. Rik Riley

reply to post by rikriley

---

I would try to move, definately! I used to be proud to be an American. Now I am embarrassed and ashamed. I hate this place. And I hate to say it because it sounds terrible, but I hate Geo. Bush, and his entire criminal family, and the maniacal criminal, Dick Cheney. I'm fed up with a congress that takes bribes to stab us in the back and betray the country they claim to serve. And I'm tired of being a slave to corporations.

reply to post by BradKell

---

When starting "Freedom" a free capitalistic society in my eyes is much better then a pure communistic society where very little incentive is given to the worker to produce quality and quantity of goods and services.

As far as taxes tariffs would be implemented on manufactured goods coming into the country from day one. Remember we are talking starting from scratch I say let free enterprise begin and prosper. Other revenue generating mechanisms will be set in place to create working capital. In "Freedom" Our motto is pay as you go and stay out of debt.

All technologies including energy savings devices will be implemented. I am not advocating going back to the horse and buggy days but starting High tech and a persons brains and ideas is his or her capital when starting out with very little. In "Freedom" we can not make people happy but we can show them and give them an opportunity to be in a position where it is easier to be happy.

Freedom, the country is not going to start out as a welfare state this is why individuals will be screened. There will be some financial stipulations placed on the individual entering the country. We are not letting people with no means to enter the country because we are setting them up for failure. If individuals have a job lined up that is perfectly fine and if they have brain power as capital and are able to contribute and work that is fine too. This is a new and unsettled country so we can be choosy who we let in because we are not forced to let just anyone in that wants to cross the borders. Rik Riley