The ATS Issues Thread

I'm not sure I'd put any particular stock in a member's point total. All that really means is they're active and don't spend any in the Store on extra u2u capacity or RATS access or profile stuff.

I'd love to see each post stand on its own merit without regard to whatever "status" a member has. We're all capable of the occasional flash of insight, or piece of drek, regardless of history.

RE ATS Points...

Judging by comments in the ATS Issues thread, it had seemed as if many had thought the public display of status was a bad thing.

SkepticOverlord www.abovetopsecret.com...

I must say, I never saw them as public displays of status. More like a loose impression as to how experienced a certain poster is intheir particular area. Often unreliable but helpful never the less.

reply to post by and14263


Exactly my thoughts.

I also think if they want to consider removing it, why not have a poll as other members have stated? There is no reason to remove something that only 2% of the population complains about. Also, this 2% with low points are not even guarenteed to stick around! Most high point members you know will be around for quite some time, while the sub 100 point members are often one time posters, spammers, or post and leave type of people. I would rather not have ATS listen to the minority of people who could care less about the forum instead of our well established members.


[edit on 5/31/2009 by deadline527]

Originally posted by and14263
RE ATS Points...

I must say, I never saw them as public displays of status. More like a loose impression as to how experienced a certain poster is intheir particular area. Often unreliable but helpful never the less.

The trouble is the points don't show that, you get 5000 points for joining twitter at the end of the day, that on its own invalidates any total below that. Ive been a member of the site for coming up to a year now, I don't create junk threads and only comment if I have something to say on a subject, I'm coming up to having 600 points.

Put up a good Hoax though, or something declaring Jesus is fake or Obama is the devil and watch your points go through the roof as the thread goes to 30 pages of squabbling.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Originally posted by and14263
RE ATS Points...

I must say, I never saw them as public displays of status. More like a loose impression as to how experienced a certain poster is intheir particular area. Often unreliable but helpful never the less.

The trouble is the points don't show that, you get 5000 points for joining twitter at the end of the day, that on its own invalidates any total below that. Ive been a member of the site for coming up to a year now, I don't create junk threads and only comment if I have something to say on a subject, I'm coming up to having 600 points.

Put up a good Hoax though, or something declaring Jesus is fake or Obama is the devil and watch your points go through the roof as the thread goes to 30 pages of squabbling.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by gYvMessanger]

I was unaware that we get 5k just for joining twitter? What a horrible idea. I always thought of ATS points as reflecting the amount of content and contributation a member has put forth and not how many ATS affiliated websites the user has joined. My whole idea of the point system has now been changed. What the hell is the point of it if it doesnt even pertain to only ATS content?

reply to post by gYvMessanger


The bulk of points being awarded to members is not from general posting and replies from those threads.

It's participating in the writting contests, or TinWiki and Applause from staff.

I've been here going on 6 months I think and I've gain a little under 40K points. I have posted alot of threads, mostly news, alot that end up racking little in flags or replies.

I have gotten the bulk of my points from Applause and contributions to places other than the board. 500 points a pop for applause and I have 22 now. Thats 11k points right there.

And ofcourse there will always be points awarded for trivial things such as joining the newest "segway" of ATS such as Twitter or TinWiki, but if you look at the established members, the ones who have a crazy ammount of points, they have contributed insanely to this place, and received insane points based on their contributions.

We can't it the way we all want it. There will always be minority and majority. Perhaps a polling system would work better when it comes to changing little things like labels and reward systems.

~Keeper

so If I write witty or charming or insightful or filled with wisdom or took 3 hrs to research posts ,I can't have a flag star or applause unless you think:

I'm part of your lame click mentality crew or...

I didn't deserve it because I don't have a huge.....point total ...

or my avatar isn't sexy enuff....

or when you flogged me with your huge ego and I didn't kiss your lame ....

or your overly limited view of what ATS is because your part of some cerebral lemming mob that goes around starring "Well done dude posts" of your friends...

maybe we can have profile buttons right next to the star,flag and Digg buttons to save people the trouble of reading posts.

...or even better every time some one posts something we could have an auto star and flag list so it would save people the time of logging on.

maybe this will lead to people being more altruistic with their posts and threads instead of needing a Nobel prize for typing...indeed .. I concur or look what I found ...

ATS is free and is good and there's lot to read.


If the tags come back can I have one that says
"I don't need a tag"
"Mascot"
"I don't own the place"
"I'm in chat laughing at your brain power"
"got Ego ?"
"Deny Retentiveness"
"AT Smutterbox Rox"
"BLAH"

"STAR & FLAG THIS MUTTER ER" lol

Originally posted by jkrog08
When and why did the point thing become such a huge issue? When I joined the points and bars were already here (Dec.2007) and no one was complaining then. From what I see it started when the "250 members" thing was started. If the bars were not an issue why was the badges? No one makes issues out of the FSME, CM,Tinwiki, Archive, etc badges. I have said it before and I will say it one more time.


Even though I am strongly in favor of the badge system if it will continue to cause this type of disruption in the board then I think it is best to just forget about it, as sad is it is to say.

Good point, I don't get it either.

I think I will let it go at that.

reply to post by deadline527


reply to post by and14263



Great point.

I think most members were happy with either ranking systems. I felt it was only fair to award some merit for those most active and contributed to the threads as a form of public recognition. It always seems that the tiny minority opposition has to ruin it for everybody. I for one found the ranking system very useful. I posted on the other thread a suggestion that they have a debate pro and con and let the stars decide which would prevail.

It would be a great way to settle the issue anonymously.

In the end it does seem to follow what somebody earlier has posted that we here at ATS are not mature enough to have a ranking system. A few people get offended that their tiny amount of contribution doesn't earn them a "Cosmic" status.

My tinfoil hat is starting to tingle.

I should research the numbers and blindly count how many were opposed to the ranking system then view their status and see just how many of them were low contributors.

reply to post by neformore


I can only thing of one thing more important then all of those which you listed.

ATS points, the world can wait, ats points cannot!

-Sarcasm

You do make a good point. Going to go find out about that UFO thingy.

Originally posted by neformore


Swine flu may come back and kill us all in the Autumn.

NK popped a nuke and threatened war with the South.

Theres a mini UFO flap in the UK (did anyone notice?)

Obama's admin is struggling a little with its credibility right now

The UK MP's are all on the take it seems, and its leading to some serious political reforms

The world economy is struggling still, and things may get a hell of a lot worse.

But hey....lets complain about the points system

But hey....lets complain about the points system


Might as well, they are all things we have no control over.




TTFN, I'm, off to save the planet.

tally ho

Pray

[edit on 043131p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by neformore


Swine flu may come back and kill us all in the Autumn.

NK popped a nuke and threatened war with the South.

Theres a mini UFO flap in the UK (did anyone notice?)

Obama's admin is struggling a little with its credibility right now

The UK MP's are all on the take it seems, and its leading to some serious political reforms

The world economy is struggling still, and things may get a hell of a lot worse.

But hey....lets complain about the points system

Why didn't you post the links to those threads ?....and add the names of the people that started them ... I will not star or flag anyone ever again.

DID you hear that SLayer ?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Agreed.

I think many members enjoyed having their point total displayed because it shows that you have been an active member of ATS and that you contribute a great amount of content to the website. These are the people I look forward to reading threads from the most.

I am not saying that I do not read posts from members with low point totals. The problem is that a lot of times the low quality posts come from those with very low points. Is this a fault of the system? or a fault of the person posting? I'd say the latter.

There are PLENTY of new members who add amazing content to the forums. Many people are long time lurkers who finallly join, but have a very decent grasp of ATS and the way we work. But sadly, there are too many people who join to make stupid threads, outrageous claims that can never be backed up, or end up as extreme T&C violators.

If you count the percentage of quality posts from a 50k+ point poster and a 400 point poster, I am willing to bet that the person who has been here longer has a much broader knowledge of ALL topics discussed, as well as a better ability to format and relay the information, as well as providing quality sources.

Too many new members post from websites such as Pravda or AllNewsWeb. They do not understand that there are plenty of sites out there that are utter crap, yet they fill our forums with it constantly. I'm sorry, but If there is an outrageous claim from a high point member and a low point member, I'm going to believe the high point member more then the other because they have an established track record with the forum.

Many times we see this with UFO photos. Many low point posters its usually CGI or obvious fakes. The higher point members post actual content that is a great addition to our forums. The ability to disseminate between the two is one of the perks that come with being a long time member. You LEARN about things over time such as this. You are able to spot fakes vs real photos. This is something that the newer members are not able to do most of the time, and thus many of the posts are not worth reading.

Is this discrimination? Probably. But its for a reason. I have a limited amount of time to read quality content and I do not want to be spending it reading pointless articles.





[edit on 5/31/2009 by deadline527]

reply to post by deadline527


Deny Ignorance, look around the site, the Twitter was started over a year ago I think...

Points are nothing more than a different version of our old star system. They are not the only tool to help one differentiate between those who post "good content" (based on what? compared to what?) over those who post, ummm not good content(again based on what? compared to hwat?)...

They aren't designed for that at all actually, and by the way, your points are still being counted and displayed on your profile page.


To the rest who have been complaining about the badges...

[blunt Springer]
This whole exercise has been a very revealing example of just how insecure, petty, utterly confused and/or downright jealous humanity can be...

Our only intent was to say thank you to those who have provided the content to ATS over the years. Who am I to say that one person's contributions are crap while another's are the end all bestus?

To think everyone here is equal in the contribution department is simply ridiculous IMHO...

There are those who contribute consistently solid content to this site and they are who we seek to thank. I would also add that the drek peddlers DON'T last long enough to get anywhere near the point/flag/star combo needed for a badge, the badges were the TRUTH based on the data.

What some seem to be confusing here is what, exactly that TRUTH meant.

It did not mean the member is a prescient genius of insider knowledge or any "better" than anyone else, it meant they contributed a solid stream of content that is decent enough to get the required recognition and they were civil enough/abide the rules enough to hang around long enough to do so and not get banned.

Anyone who places more than that on it is simply embracing ignorance or green with envy. (it's pretty clear who is who, IMHO)

And finally...

As Bill said, please don't give us the bollocks about the system being gamed or manipulated, it's NOT TRUE, we have the data, it wasn't happening.

Uggghhhh....
[/blunt Springer]

Springer...

The things (IMO) that make a good, quality member of ATS are a combination of the following:

• Flags on average per thread
• Stars on average per thread
• Applause Total (can't troll quality)
• Overall Respect (as seen by other well respected members appearing in your threads)
• Someone who has been a member for AT LEAST one calendar year(most of the time, but occasionally some rise very fast, and some fall very slow)
• Overall thread and post style (ie; Does a member take time to research, organize, and lay out in an easy to understand format?)
• Replies generally don’t mean much, if a thread is well put and neutrally balanced then multiple replies are not nessicary (this is a “perfect thread”). Thus you may get a lot of stars and flags but not more than one or two pages of replies because there is nothing to discuss, it has been well laid out by the OP. Sometimes however good threads do not get many stars, flags, or replies as they may get lost in the extreme influx of threads or other “unknown” reasons. But a lot of the time the OP will get a lot of applauses behind the scenes from FSMEs and staff. Those are really the true indicator. Especially if you notice the member frequents a highly speculative forum like UFOs or Skunk Works but has say over 60 applauses in a short tenure.

How to spot high point or tag status “counterfeit members”

***Note*** This usually applies only to “Threaders” as I have seen no “Posters” that do this.
• Topic of choice and credibility of chosen topics. (ie; Does a member constantly create bogus threads that may get a lot of replies and maybe flags/stars but usually the topic is not well researched and is only a 'temporary flame' on the board due to its' provocative' nature?)
• Does the member bounce around on many forums creating very provocative but poorly researched threads that tend to lead viewers and create arguments? This is also called TROLLING FOR ATTENTION.
• Does the member have a lot of points but few applause? Likely counterfeit, but not in all cases
• A member tends to exaggerate thread titles that in reality provide very little to back up the title in combination usually with a short OP with one or two sources and a youtube video.
• A member creates multiple short OP threads in one day about 3-4 times a month. Highly speculative and leading.
• The ultimate end of the counterfeit threads are usually closed, end in no foreseeable resolution to the topic presented, or the replies (which may be in the 1000+ category) are only personal arguments and attacks.
• If the member is relatively new and has a lot of points but is someone you never see on any “signature threads” presenting productive information. The member only creates “out there threads” that have no basis in even the most speculative known topics.
• Eventually this counterfeit member will stop getting responses and usually resort to hoaxes and get banned.


Keep in mind also that points after around 10,000 do take some contribution other than joining Twitter to achieve. The best thing to do to judge a members contribution in either threads or posts is to look at the points to applause ratio. Example would be someone who has say 90,000 points and 60+ applauses, that I would consider a “contributing member”. Or someone who may not have created more than 10 threads but has 80,000 points and over 100 applauses is another example of a different type of contributing member. I liken the “threaders”(those who create) and the “posters” (those who add) to a check and balance system. Without either this site would be crap. Of course this was all IMO and I am sure I will get flamed by some for this but it is what it is, so sorry if I hurt your feelings.


[edit on 5/31/2009 by jkrog08]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Now I'm off to read about crossdressing green hermaphrodites midgets from niburu coming to invade us in 2012

Link please?

Originally posted by William One Sac

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Now I'm off to read about crossdressing green hermaphrodites midgets from niburu coming to invade us in 2012

Link please?

It was posted by a new member who swears he will post the video evidence later on in the day.

/sarcasm off

Although, I would love to read that as well, lol.

Originally posted by William One Sac

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Now I'm off to read about crossdressing green hermaphrodites midgets from niburu coming to invade us in 2012

Link please?

I missed that one , dang,

That is to funny.

[edit on 31 May 2009 by schrodingers dog]