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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on May, 31 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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In my opinion anyone who leaves ATS because they don't get points or some badge of distinction probably will find greener pastures elsewhere on the inter-webs. I and others come here to get information we want, and contribute what we feel is valuable regardless of superfluous rewards. To me, what I have gained in my short membership here in terms of knowledge is far better than any pre-determined public display can communicate.




posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Was it because of what some are calling "whiners"?

In some part, yes... nothing to do with bandwidth/server-stress.

It's never actually been clear to me as to why a noticeable percentage of ATS members are consistently expressing their resistance to a visible measure of community contribution in the form of appreciated posts and interesting threads... but then, then ATS is always full of surprises.

I'm considering alternatives.


And please, no tedious diatribes on how stars or flags can be abused... there is no evidence of consistent abuse by anyone that has end up influencing the threads that appear on the site home, or other thread-ranking pages.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
TOKEN ECONOMY


A token economy (such as the dominant social system we operate in offline) here at ATS does kind of defeat what I percieve is the underlying purpose of the whole site.


So in your eyes are we patients or prisoners?




"Patients earn tokens, which they can exchange for privileges, such as time watching television or walks on the hospital grounds, by completing assigned duties (such as making their beds) or even just by engaging in appropriate conversations with others" (Nolen-Hoeksema's Abnormal Psychology, p.409).

As well as applying it to children many prisons adopt this system, where prisoners are rewarded with tokens for good behavior or amount of work load. things they can redeem with their tokens are: cigarettes, magazines, books, etc. it provides an incentive for them to work harder and to follow the rules.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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Well all I know is that issues such as these seem to detract from the normal flow of the site. Most seemed to be happy just being members. myself included.

Bill

Whatever you decide is fine by me.

Enough said.

Now I'm off to read about crossdressing green hermaphrodites midgets from niburu coming to invade us in 2012



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Dave's Personal Opinion

Well..... another insightful idea goes down in flames..... a shame really. Considering that ATS cost absolutely ZERO to view or to join, one would think that adding a bit of flair here and there would be appreciated. Guess not.

Hey, I have an idea..... let's get rid of Avatars, U2U's, the Media Center, Podcasts and make it like the boring hundreds of other sites.


Come on folks... I mean really......

End Dave Personal Opinion



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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I am also glad they've been removed.
There is no need for any kind of rating or status symbol here... we're all here to learn and exchange ideas, not try and be gold, silver, blue or whatever.



There is no "competition" and everyone is equal.

This is a good (if only temporary) move.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

So in your eyes are we patients or prisoners?




"Patients earn tokens, which they can exchange for privileges, such as time watching television or walks on the hospital grounds, by completing assigned duties (such as making their beds) or even just by engaging in appropriate conversations with others" (Nolen-Hoeksema's Abnormal Psychology, p.409).

As well as applying it to children many prisons adopt this system, where prisoners are rewarded with tokens for good behavior or amount of work load. things they can redeem with their tokens are: cigarettes, magazines, books, etc. it provides an incentive for them to work harder and to follow the rules.

en.wikipedia.org...


That's just an overview of the term, not my personal opinion.

But it does shed light on the psychology of different communal systems, how to encourage participation and reward desirable behavior.

I can see how it may have come off as overly clinical, and that really wasn't my intent.


I see members here at ATS as a beautiful community of intelligent, creative and inquisitive people.



*edit to add:

The reason I brought it up in the first place was because this ongoing issue with the merit badges keeps reminding me of a video I saw years ago - in which a group of monkeys were all given pieces of cantalope as rewards for good behavior....everything was fine until the handler ran out of cantalope and gave one of the monkeys a grape instead.

Then all hell broke loose. Suddenly, all the monkeys looked at the one with the grape - and their cantalope piece suddenly wasn't good enough.

The behavior within the group always modified to whatever item a single monkey had that was "unique" and differed from the majority.


And no, I'm not implying the members are monkeys and the staff "handlers".


Just that there is a startling parallel of behavior.



[edit on 5/31/09 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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I could care less either way personally....

But, humans are competitive by nature.... I have a feeling this change will not last long.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Flair? ATS has lots of flair. I think the two lines allowed to "describe ourselves" is plenty of flair. And we get to let others know how we rate ourselves.
An interesting post may lead others to look at our "contributions" on our profile.
We don't need to swing to the extreme and whine that all things should be removed.
That's a little dramatic, and I don't appreciate being called a whiner because I stand on a principle.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by seagrass]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
Dave's Personal Opinion

Hey, I have an idea..... let's get rid of Avatars, U2U's, the Media Center, Podcasts and make it like the boring hundreds of other sites.


End Dave Personal Opinion


Actually every message board I've been a member of had some form of ranking system, avatars and a private messaging system (Podcasts and the Media Center are certainly unique). I don't see how the ATS system was all that inventive. In fact I thought the point of it was to make ATS more like other popular sites, more common to the internet.

Actually, I personally wouldn't mind if membership went "black". Why not? No avatars, no names... just assigned numbers at the end of Anonymous. That would be fun and different, and fitting a site centered around conspiracies in general.

I'm kidding.

But speaking of which, I'm not sure how it could be wondered why a ranking system would rile people who spend their days speculating on the integrity of those "above" them. At the core, it isn't about the government, shadow or otherwise. It's about "us vs them". Those who determine our value based on (mostly) arbitrary measures And the previous system at ATS played the same game to some of us.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It's never actually been clear to me as to why a noticeable percentage of ATS members are consistently expressing their resistance to a visible measure of community contribution in the form of appreciated posts and interesting threads... but then, then ATS is always full of surprises.


It's crystal clear to me.

Under the old system, which was oriented around Applause, the staff and mods could maintain fairly tight control over which members rose in points and cred and which ones didn't.

The new system was sort of revolutionary in that the membership suddenly had much more control over which members rose in cred - by means of flagging and starring.

I can easily see how such a subtle - but important! - shift in power started to make the resident professional debunking teams, gang-stalking teams, alphabet-soup agency people nervous...........



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
It's crystal clear to me.

Under the old system, which was oriented around Applause, the staff and mods could maintain fairly tight control over which members rose in points and cred and which ones didn't.

The new system was sort of revolutionary in that the membership suddenly had much more control over which members rose in cred - by means of flagging and starring.

I can easily see how such a subtle - but important! - shift in power started to make the resident professional debunking teams, gang-stalking teams, alphabet-soup agency people nervous...........


One does wonder sometimes.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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I see no shift in power associated with applause based labels and thread number metals. I could post a great number of threads and still be somewhat aluminum in content.. I could say some important content and go unnoticed.. how is that power?



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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My doglike wisdom du jour:

It seems our ATS zen-masters are teaching us, either by intent or consequence, a valuable lesson in tenuous attachments.

Thank you sirs, may we have another.



Having said that and having read all the comments on this subject I feel it's important to point something out ...

Those who resented the tags lie in the other side of the same coin as those who found self worth in them. BOTH positions are based on equal insecurity and egoic displacement.

Much as in life, it's never really about the doorknob.


Me?

Watching this process unfold since the start has given me great insight into board social dynamics.

So much to learn on ATS, if one knows where to look.


As far as tags, bars, points, and junk, I'm with the big Rabbit on this one as I always found it to be a fun thing and rather innocuous and harmless.

And so it goes ...



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Here's a thought:

I had just gotten used to the tags, I thought they were somewhat similar to the bars. I liked the number of points being displayed because it was helpful to me. But I can see how people would not like that.

Why not go back to something ambiguous, like the bars? One bar for threads/flags, one for points/applause, or something like that. This way it doesn't go blaring numbers.

I don't think many people complained about the bars. I think it's useful to be able to tell how many posts and points a person has in some way from their mini-profiles, instead of having to go to their profiles.

It's like, if the date people registered was removed, I would be mad. Generally because newer members or members who have not posted often GENERALLY may have different content than a member with lots of posts, points, and applause.

It helps me determine whether, say, a post should be taken seriously.

But I don't know if it works that way for other people. I tend to give members with less points and such more credit, because maybe they're not used to the system yet.

[edit on 5/31/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 



And your insights into the situation has no ego attached to it?





posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Well my protest didn't last long since work is so boring. But I thought I'd reiterate why the point system is NEEDED.

How many times do we have a thread started by someone with 12 points TOTAL, claiming they have all these great pictures, breaking information, or video that will completely rock the foundation of science? A LOT.

I pass these threads up. I dont bother reading them because its the same thing constantly until they produce - which they never do.

On the other hand, if the poster has 30k ATS points, and is saying he will post the juicy stuff later, I tend to look forward to it.

Its not a status symbol, its more of a way to know who spends the time to post quality content on here. The more points they have you can assume the more threads they have had replied to, or recieved replies to their own. The only people who would complain about this are the ones who start bullcrap threads that are sensationalized and complain when nobody cares. Its because they NEVER deliver the goods.

Do I want to have to look at somebodys profile every time they start a thread to see if its worth getting excited over? No. Thats tedious and annoying. While there are some people on here who I have become great friends with, there are others who I will not name, but most of their content is absolute trash. And yes, its usually somebody with very low points trying to sensationalize something pointless just to get replies.

I value my ATS points dearly. It shows that I am a contributer to the site. It shows that my content is valued by others and is not junk. Why take this away from us? Because some people cry about not having points? Well maybe they should take the time to make a QUALITY thread, where people actually want to reply and start a wonderful heated debate.



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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It's crystal clear to me.

Under the old system, which was oriented around Applause, the staff and mods could maintain fairly tight control over which members rose in points and cred and which ones didn't.

The new system was sort of revolutionary in that the membership suddenly had much more control over which members rose in cred - by means of flagging and starring.

I can easily see how such a subtle - but important! - shift in power started to make the resident professional debunking teams, gang-stalking teams, alphabet-soup agency people nervous...........


Interesting point.

[edit on 033131p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

BOTH positions are based on equal insecurity and egoic displacement.

Insecurity? You think that the whiners have less stars, flags and applause? That they feel they will never reach the level that is required for God or Sage like wisdom?
It isn't based on insecurity, it is based on equality. A system we seem to abhor. That average is to imply less than. That a group needs labels to function.
That it is somehow fun to be 'above' on the conspiracy ladder. If you have earned respect at ATS, it is probably not based on your applause levels.

[edit on 31-5-2009 by seagrass]



posted on May, 31 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Im just as guilty here, but I remember the good old days when we discussed CONSPIRACY Topics.

We need a solution so we can get back to fighting against the impending reptilian overlords that force there fluoride and there American idol religion down all of our throats.

Maybe we should form a ATS committee to formulate a solution and to vote on it, or several solutions to vote on???

Democracy in action



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