Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Congrats on your new addition to your avatar.

I am wondering what else besides reading one book [hopefully finished now] on a multi country conglomerate qualifies one as a subject matter expert?

Please do not be offended - I have read several of your posts on several different threads and find that I agree with some of your assessments and have always found you to be considerate and and insightful.

The term "contractor" in all it's multitude of bastardizations has drawn my attention for a number of years. In addition to working with dozens of contractors from several corporations for many years; I was also classified as a contractor attached to Ft. Eustis, VA for over 6 years.

I understand that with the current popular pastime of automatically condemning any military contractor I run the risk of being grouped with Hitler, Skinheads, Neocons, etc... ad naseuem; so be it.

It was my experience during this time that operationally it was difficult to tell the military, civilian, para-military, or contractors apart without a program. Especially after 9/11, a team was a team regardless of their professional affiliation. What we were evaluated and held accountable for was our adherence to protocol and procedures; and the success of our mission objectives.

IMHO most individuals and certainly all public/civil servants could benefit from these experiences.

reply to post by kerontehe


Thanks for the congratulations on the avatar. I'm still mulling over whether that is permanent or not.

While yes I read Scahill's book, it's far from the only book I read.

Not to say this to offend you, but did you read every single post within this thread?

I do mention other books in this thread as well as other people's links within ATS, so I did research a lot. An immense amount of time and effort went into this area. The fact that ATS considers that I am an Expert on the topic of Blackwater was suggested via a Moderator, as I didn't seek it out. I felt that Blackwater was something important enough to talk about and while it may sound in fact like I am trashing them, I am not, I am however stating along similar lines to what Scahill has to say in that they need to be extremely and heavily regulated.

The reason for this?

Simple. The implications, as well as the current President's wanton and rampant doing anything he feels like he should, leaves Blackwater directly connected to the Pentagon as well as the Department of Defense, without the usual set of regulations, policies, procedures, and protocols of protecting us as citizens from our Government becoming too powerful, and becoming a dictatorship.

President Bush has done things that in the past within America, no matter what the reasoning, would have him immediately Impeached as well as put up on war-crimes charges for various reasons including but not limited to treason. Blackwater, being a private organization, mercenary, private contractor, or whatever reference you decide is relevant, is run by a man who is an extreme right-winger, who is totally loyal to Bush and the Republican Party as well.

I'm not a Liberal, I'm not a left-winger, and while the opinion I have of Bush would make the Secret Service cringe, and probably does at that, I do know how to make a middle of the field judgement and see things from both sides of the perspective. From what I hear from people, this is not an easy task to do.

Here's a few book references to show where some of the knowledge I've expressed here on Blackwater has come from :

Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army

Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program

The Complete Idiot's Guide(R) to Private Investigating

Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View

Cultural Diversity in Organizations: Theory, Research and Practice

Confronting "the Enemy Within": Security Intelligence, the Police, and Counterterrorism in Four Democracies

The Pentagon's New Map: War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century

Blank Check: The Pentagon's Black Budget

While I referenced maybe only one or two of these books within the thread, I believe it was within all the writing I did on the thread is what showed to that particular Moderator that I knew what I'm talking about when it comes to all things Blackwater. Greystone is the next beast to tackle when I can find some more relevant information on them, and Greystone is an offshoot of it's sibling Blackwater.

I have to say thanks for being intelligent in what you've asked about how I got the title as well as what it takes to know what I know about Blackwater. As well as the books I referenced here already, there are possibly thirty-five different books I've read on the Navy SEAL's alone. I have been studying war tactics, political strategy, as well as the Art of War all of My entire like as well.

Scahill references that Blackwater is potentially connected to C.I.A. Black Ops like what the book Ghost Plane I referenced talks about, so that's a whole other area I didn't even delve into, yet.

I will say this, from multiple people over the last seventeen years I have been mistake for, accused of being, and abused for the assumption of being a Police Officer.

As well as this I received the compliment that for being a 30 year old, I am now 35, that if I were currently within the U.S. Military that I would be a Colonel right now due to the military knowledge and in depth knowledge of all things strategic from a friend who knows a thing or two about the military.

I didn't even touch the fiction books I read regularly on military subjects here.

Hope I answered your questions and or thoughts on the topic of Blackwater.

So, do I qualify to you, as a Blackwater Expert? I know ATS thinks so.

Not only all of the above, I've generated over 8000 views just by putting My thoughts into this thread alone.

Wikipedia - Greystone

I also did this TinWiki entry on Greystone. In case you don't know what that is, TinWiki is ATS's branch of Wikipedia.

TinWIki - Greystone





[edit on 27-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Thanks again for a thoughtful posting and the U2U. I felt sure that it was more than just reading about someone elses opinions and experiences.

If these type of corporations interest you, you might also consider looking at these guys: www.kroll.com.... I've been wanting to for some time but health and time constraints have prevented.

I look forward to many future exchanges.

I recall Kroll being mentioned in some 9/11 type issues and that they are involved in Iraq as well. First thread that comes to mind, is "Who Killed John O'neil" then the there is another one which is called "Iraq for Sale".

Can't think of the other references to Kroll at the moment.

They are surely another branch of Haliburton Conglomerate, interestingyou mention it, because it sort of fell of my radar for a minute.

That subject can fill a whole other thread though, so I'll get back on track and bring this to a close with a on topic comment.

BW or Blackwater, does need to be better regulated. As the Military has rules of engagement and codes of conduct following the Geneva code, BW has a much looser leash. They have gotten away with activities service members would be imprisioned for.

Now, I'm not agianst PMCs, but they should have to follow a standard close to the one we do while in combat.

Looking forward to seeing more developments in reguards to Blackwaters activities, they can't seem to stay out of the spotlight for long. Seems they will either make or break the modern mercenary mold.

I recall when such activities and topics were taboo.

Originally posted by kerontehe
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Thanks again for a thoughtful posting and the U2U. I felt sure that it was more than just reading about someone elses opinions and experiences.

If these type of corporations interest you, you might also consider looking at these guys: www.kroll.com.... I've been wanting to for some time but health and time constraints have prevented.

I look forward to many future exchanges.

I've heard of Kroll, as well as Triple Canopy, Dyn Corp, and various other "private contractors" in this field, I just happened to pick blackwater because I bought the book I reference within this thread.

Maybe I'll consider doing a thread on all three of the other big dogs in competition with Blackwater, as well as Greystone. I'm beginning to get to the point where I need some personal assistants.


[edit on 27-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I posted on here in relation to Blackwater's Eric Prince knowing Richard Marcinko, of Red Cell fame. This is a part of the knowledge I had that contributed to the knowledge which assisted in understanding Blackwater, which got My the Blackwater Expert.

RED CELL - Secret Military Terrorism Organization

I also posted this comment on that thread and it's related specifically to this thread, so I'm quoting it over here.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by NavalSpecWar

 

Wikipedia - Richard Marcinko

Richard Marcinko wrote Rogue Warrior as an autobiography.

After it was printed, the Navy then threw his butt in jail.

The reason?

Simple, his autobiography included classified operational details as well as actual Navy SEAL procedures. After that, he wrote all his books as fiction. He also states in one book, that he knows Eric Prince of Blackwater fame, and they live near each other.

I've read the following of his books :

Rogue Warrior

Rogue Warrior : Red Cell

Rogue Warrior : Green Team

Rogue Warrior : Task Force Blue

Rogue Warrior : Designation Gold

Rogue Warrior : Option Delta

Rogue Warrior : Echo Platoon

Rogue Warrior : Violence of Action

Rogue Warrior : Vengeance

What exactly do you want to know about the Rogue Warrior?

X-Box 360 : Rogue Warrior

Playstation 3 : Rogue Warrior

A friend has said that I am a rogue, and no I am not affiliated with the Navy SEAL's, but I've read countless books on them.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I got the largest compliment from a friend the other day, that if I went into Law Enforcement, and worked for the D.E.A., they would be afraid they couldn't keep Me in check, because anything naughty I might do, I eventually tell people anyway, and because you have to be half dirty to work for them, they would hate to not be able to blackmail Me to keep Me under their control.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Some new developments in Iraq that applies to all security contractors working there.

U.S. Agrees to Lift Immunity for Contractors in Iraq

www.nytimes.com...

I interpret this as: The DOD may not control you beyond terms of the contract; but the protection from prosecution by the the Iraqi legal system is being removed. All contractors need to be very aware of the laws they are subject to in any country they operate. The US Embassies can not always be relied upon to extend US legal protection to citizens that violate laws in another country.

IE: make sure you are getting paid by direct deposit.

reply to post by kerontehe


Well, this is definately a new development in the realm of all things war. I never thought they should get a blanket immunity to begin with, it leaves too many opportunities open for abuse of the same said immunity. Accountibility is important even though it is not going to happen on the reverse side of the battlefield.

I understand war means death, and equivilates fast acting responses necessary at a moments notice, sometimes in a split second, as a soldier, that person is deciding to either spare someone's life, or end their entire world.

That's called war.

Originally posted by Trigger001
its not true why would the U.S. do that?

Okay, you're going to have to be a tad more specific with what this is in reference to within this thread. Being that this is an extremely long thread with lots of entries, opinions expressed, and other things, get back to Me with your reference and I'll respond to it accordingly.

I kinda knew that already. What I do not like the most about BW is that they are can do whatever they want and they will not suffer any consequences at all because in the contract that they signed with the US government, they are immune to Iraqi law and we all know that the Bush admin will not do anything to BW.

Also I think that BW proves that we need to increase the US military because in my opinion, if we need to hire a PMC to help us in a military operation, it shows that we do not have enough troops in our military.

reply to post by lucius01


This is most likely a drive towards pushing the military into the "Volunteer Army" where only people who serve will be citizens through a career in the military. This is in essence like Rome and the Spartan's did things, where if you didn't serve as a warrior, you were not considered worthy of citizenship.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


What does Prince knowing Marcinko have anything to do with BW? Hell, I know Marcinko as well as a few other Red Cell members, does that make me a "shady person"?

I frequently hang out with one of the bigger name members of Red Cell, why would that change anyones perception of me?

The SEAL community is close and tight knit, it should be no surprise to anyone that SEALS in different areas *gasp* know each other and associate in both business and personal relationships.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

What does Prince knowing Marcinko have anything to do with BW? Hell, I know Marcinko as well as a few other Red Cell members, does that make me a "shady person"?

I frequently hang out with one of the bigger name members of Red Cell, why would that change anyones perception of me?

The SEAL community is close and tight knit, it should be no surprise to anyone that SEALS in different areas *gasp* know each other and associate in both business and personal relationships.

It was a casual observation only, slackerwire, not any major controversy like you are making it out to be. You need to let some tension off that spring of yours before it snaps.

I happen to respect Richard Marcinko and the SEAL's very much, even with his controversial history which makes Me smile, but due to the way Eric Prince operates outside of the Navy SEAL system of honor with Blackwater it makes it difficult to even consider him an American, let alone an honorable person.

I don't think you honestly know how to see this from the larger picture of how citizens see the reasoning behind politicians dirty scumbag lies to a nation, and how much it affects our Constitutional rights if Blackwater is called in under the necessity of a national disaster.

While I understand the necessity of organizations like F.E.M.A. to protect the nation at its most ciritical time of need, I also 100% completely understand that F.E.M.A. is a part of Continuity of Government, that's contiuance of Government, not Contiunance of Society, securing Government's place as the power of the United States, and in essence raping American citizens of all of their rights, for an undetermined length of time.

When an organization like F.E.M.A. or even Homeland Security can become operational because of something we as citizens are directly suffering from, meaning a hurricane, or flood, or whatever, homes having been lost, being seperated from family members, and not having any physical guarantee of safety because our weapons have been seized, you have to at least see a small bit of suspicion of Government, because *gasp* they are people made up of other human beings who *gasp* have agendas, and *gasp* do not actually respect a damn thing American citizens say or desire in life, let alone in a time of crisis.

slackerwire, can you honestly say with 100% certainty, that you trust ANY politician, with YOUR life in their hands? I know I don't.

What about Richard Marcinko?

He's been screwed over so many times by the likes of the political types like Admiral Pinky Prescott, people who are so wound up and tight that and see someone like Tricky Dick as an enemy of the state just because Dick doesn't go around all spit and polish clean all the time and obey every single word he says.

Hell, I respect Dick Marcinko a lot, at least he has a set of brass ones and will tell the political types to shove it up their collective backsides.

Would Eric Prince do that, if the orders were to march U.S. citizens off to internment camps, or is his paycheck his only master?

See, slackerwire, there is a huge difference between being a Navy SEAL working within the confines of rules, regulations, policies, procedures, even working in the field where the down and dirty tricks are what will save your life, but organizations like Blackwater working directly for the same people, being the Pentagon, outside of the regular chain of command where the citizens are protected from political agendas, it worries citizens of the nation who are seeing their Constitutional rights being stripped away from them on a daily basis.

See, I see people like George W Bush and Eric Prince just like Richard Marcinko sees Admiral Pinky Prescott.

You have to admit, slackerwire, even within the SEAL community, there are factions that agree or disagree with each other, and if you can't, that's okay because there are a lot of people within the ATS community who have read the Rogue Warrior books who know it, since Demo Dick outlined it, there are HUGE factions just within Government and the Military itself where they are at each others throats because of territorial disputes of who's getting how much funding, and which allocation of jurisdictional power goes to who, etc.

I wish there was a way to help you understand, slackerwire, the ability of politicians to have an agenda that they claim is one thing, where it is in fact a total 180 degree opposite because they are lieing through their teeth, utilizing double-speak and casual innocous terms to confuse the citizens they are in fact lieing to, to begin with.


[edit on 7-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
The idea of 2 years of service to your country before receiving full citizenship rights I first saw formally suggested in about 1968.

The suggestion as put forth at that time did not specify military service as many assignments at that time were closed to women as being too hazardous. Service in civic organizations active to help local communities was also included as a qualifier.

With the recently increased benefits of the new GI Bill this could greatly increase volunteer responses to some dearly needed services for all citizens as well as providing training and experience to those which for whatever reason are not particlarly well suited for a traditional college route.

IMHO - I have no problem with earning all the benefits available to a contributing involved US citizen. Especially if it is a program NOT run by the US government but with public auditing and oversite.

reply to post by kerontehe


My biggest and honestly only problem with military service to gain citizenship, is that they have to go about sneaking it into the people's minds, instead of pointing out the benefits of it, because they know about 2/3's of the citizenship will outright refuse it.

I had no problem reading about it in reference to the Roman soldiers, and other militaries of the Ancient World, but all I want to have is complete honesty in what is being sold, basically truth in advertising, because I tend to choke of horse manure.

reply to post by CaptInsanoX


So because these guys got out of the military and decide to join a company where they can utilize their skills they learned and probably the only skills they have because they probably joined when they were 18. "They were probably killing innocents"? That is ridiculous how could you know what these guys were probably doing?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas




I agree.

Let's take off the blinders and call it what it is.

Dispense with the smoke and mirrors and drag it into the floor and let the cat sniff it.

One of my very long term pet peeves is listening to sub-human cretins that demand all the benefits of a representative constitutional republic without contributing anything to it's care and feeding.

Originally posted by kerontehe
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I agree.

Let's take off the blinders and call it what it is.

Dispense with the smoke and mirrors and drag it into the floor and let the cat sniff it.

One of my very long term pet peeves is listening to sub-human cretins that demand all the benefits of a representative constitutional republic without contributing anything to it's care and feeding.

Excellant post. While I agree it should be a better system, it needs to be a working system to begin with, as I do not see that the election system works how its supposed to work, as the popular vote is not the deciding factor that gets a President into office, it is the Electoral Vote that puts a President into office.

Politics are not about your ethics and commiting to your issues, but about who you can support to get to support you, and in essence screw us the little man. So, is it any surprise that Blackwater, or any other mercenary outfit is put into place, in order to subvert our Constitutional rights.

Not one bit.


[edit on 9-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Honestly, where do you left wing bleeding heart liberals get off! The only reason you One have the time and liberty to do this and two sleep soundly in your bed is because rough men are willing to do violence on your behalf. The only thing we have to look foward to after our trouble is hearing you cry about "we are not treating people kind enough." you send a young man out with a gun tell him to defend himself the man to his left and right and his country and then when you think he is mistreating people who are conspioring to kill him you start limiting that ability by saying you can shoot but first you must fill out forms A and B and then ask the individual if he really wants to fight or not. you send men out expect them to make life and death decisions in a split second with no mistakes or screw ups. Men die because people like you take the ability to quickly react and decively engage the enemy! Thier blood is on your hands!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


No one's blood is directly or indirectly on My hands, but only because of My own choosing.

You think I'm left-wing, huh?

You couldn't be farther from the truth if you were loading a battleship as an enema up a whale's backside thinking you were doing it a favor here.

I'm neither right-wing nor left-wing, I'm right down the middle as a matter of fact, the problem with factions of Government is they go off to the right or left, sometimes so far to an extreme, that they become so much like that which they are supposed to protect us from, in this case, Blackwater, as well as the President Eric Prince has allegiances towards lean so far to the right they might as well fall over.

The problem with this organization is not just in the potential that it can be used to haul citizens off to the Concentration Camps, or F.E.M.A. detainment camps, whichever your belief through knowledge of the Rex-84 program, or Readiness 84 program, or any of the various other types of programs out there, is that it is run by someone from the elite side of the world in that he as well as the current Administration have never had to work hard for their money as it was either handed to them through a trust fund or they were taught by parents who taught them world government tactics to know how to take away the very civil liberties we as the regular citizens hold do dear to us.

If you hadn't noticed, Anonymous ATS'er, I gained the Blackwater Expert badge because of research, hard work, and dedication in exploring that of what I speak, not only through belief systems of My own but through reading about others belief systems as well. I hope you read all of the entire thread and are not basing your reply just on the title alone nor on one post in particular if you honestly think your opinion is going to sway Mine and or influence anything here.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]