Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not..., page 6
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reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 04:09 AM by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


War is not just about the men ground pounding and dealing death but about the men who sent them there to begin with as well. Most people seem to forget that and only partially consider this when it is about both. There are men and women over in Iraq being killed left and right, both Americans and Iraqi's, along with other Coalition Forces.

While I do not like the idea of Iraqi's killing Americans, I as well do not like the idea of American's killing Iraqi's either. See, that's called a balanced perspective, an equal measure in understanding the concept of a human being no matter their skin color or ethical or ethnical upbringing having to die for no good reason, other than a politician in one country or another has sent them to their doom. I was raised to never ever pull a gun unless one was pulled on Me first, but if you believe one was going to be pulled on you for some reason to be prepared for that eventuality.

War is Hell, admittedly, it is not to be some grand picnic where you and the girlfriend sit on the beach with a basket of food, and a frisbee and the golden retriever frollicking about. It's about how much death and destruction you can cause to the other side, while maintaining the peace at home in prepared statements about how "Johnny" went off to war to fight for his country and how "Susie" is at home waiting for him with a baby waiting to be born for daddy to lovingly hold in his arms, but unfortuanately sometimes "Johnny" does not come home and "Susie" has to raise that child on her own. You know, that happens on the other side as well and I can sit here an interchange "Johnny's" and "Susie's" names with "Akbar" and "Ashabi" or some other Middle Eastern name but I won't bother, you shouldn't need Me to point that out.

Inside the Numbers: 49 Servicemen Killed in April

I hope you understand a bit more about why I think what I do about organizations like Blackwater, Dyn Corp, and Triple Canopy now. See, to Me a lot of this spells out how our soldiers are not getting the proper training to fight or the weapons, or whatever else you want to add in there, but that organizations like Blackwater are, because they're being funded differently and have better training, with no accountability for their actions.

Oh yeah, slackerwire if you've read the book, did you notice in Chapter 8 where Scahill talks about a "private contractor" being a Blackwater employee gives an order to fire to a U.S. Marine Corporal to initiate fire upon the civilians? That's one of your "civilian-contractors" giving an order to a United States Marine. Where's the leadership over there? Where's the accountability? I know if a civilian were to give Me orders if I were over there I'd turn right around and ask to see some sort of indentification that said he or she had the right to give Me that order.

By the way I'd like to show the fact that I've got a sense of humor. Last night I watched the funniest show called Lil Bush for the first time and I'd have to say the show Lil Bush is funny as the show Lil Bush is now My favorite Lil Bush had Me in stitches to the point of tears. I haven't laughed that hard in ten years and really enjoyed the show a lot. These two are not the episode I watched last night but I included them because they were about the Middle East specifically.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 07:50 AM by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas



I've read quite a few of those books as well, but I'm not quite sure what that has to do with my previous post.

Incidentally, since you believe that the Iraq conflict is about oil, perhaps you could provide some substantiating evidence detailing exactly how many barrels we have received/taken from Iraq, and exactly when that crude is supposed to hit the states.


reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 08:07 AM by dave420
reply to post by slackerwire


Have this one on me. "Big Oil" drafted the plan for Iraqi invasion

Or, just do a google search for "iraqi oil", and see what turns up. It's fascinating.



reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 09:00 AM by SpartanKingLeonidas
Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by slackerwire


Have this one on me. "Big Oil" drafted the plan for Iraqi invasion

Or, just do a google search for "iraqi oil", and see what turns up. It's fascinating.


dave420,

Thanks for the link, I appreciate that. The thing I see here slackerwire is that they are not intending to bring that oil our way anytime soon, not until the entire process is tied up tighter than possible, and then blame "the prohibitive cost of the war" on why the price of crude oil doesn't drop. Let's also not forget that Iraq is only a staging ground to go into Iran as well. I'm speaking from knowledge of tactics and use of military strength or foresight along with prior planning behind the scenes.

Just out of curiosity slackerwire, enlighten the rest of this thread as to which of those books I've highlighted there that you have read also. I'd be interested and I'm sure the ATS'ers here would also like to know which of those books you keep up with. This may be coming from a difference of opinion and not so much a lack of knowledge on any of our parts. My sources for the knowledge I speak with in here are not just within those books, like I stated there are countless other books as well.

As a child and teenager I delved into books about the Roman, Greeks, German, Celts, Vikings, Mongols, Japan, Persia(Middle East), I covered all those plus a lot more. Some of those books might not seem relevant to what I'm speaking about here so I'll enlighten you a bit. Asian had a heavy influence over the Middle East throughout the time period where Xerses invaded Greece, because they ended up getting inter-bred a lot the Middle Eastern nations think somewhat like the Asian mindset. Don't believe Me? How come then do we read about Xerses having amassed armies from around the known world?

Back during those timeframes a conquering army drafted the men and those would not join were slaughtered and the women and children were either split amongst the conquers or sold off as slaves depending on which conquering country it was and their local customs and their customs while abroad in battle. Xerses was Middle Eastern as was Darius and their soldiers were somewhat brave. I say somewhat brave because they chose to rely on bows and arrows, trickery, deceit, and superior numbers hoping the enemies would cower and turn, because they tended to use psychological warfare more than actual logical tactics. A lot of different viewpoints are taken by the Middle Eastern tribes but the one of puffing up their chest to brag in order to intimidate is one of their largest.

The reason I delved into so much of history and warfare was because it along with fiction books was a passion of Mine and has now become an addiction to Me. I read about battlefield tactics, siege towers, and troop movements because they were things that fascinated Me along with starships, time travel, and Popular Mechanics.

Back to the topic here being about Blackwater of course. I can understand and respect the reason they are there in Iraq because I truly understand why they're their and what they're up against but I lost respect for them a lot when it seems it's only about the paycheck and eroding civil liberties. It's a template of what's to come for America next. It's called practicing under livefire conditions which will make the actual mission for more easier.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 02:31 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
I posted this question in here for Jesse Ventura.

Jesse Ventura Interview – May 21, 2008 – ASK YOUR QUESTIONS NOW


Jesse,

I have to say I am a huge fan of yours and I was rooting for you the whole time you were in politics. Too bad you weren't in it longer but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

My question for you is with you having been a former Navy SEAL what do you think of the organizations like Blackwater, Dyn Corp, and Triple Canopy being in Iraq doing what you were doing yet under a different code of ethics and with less accountability?

There is no "leave no man behind" honor to it like there is within the SEAL community when it comes to the mercenary community, or the colloquially called "private contractor" organizations. I started this thread over a week ago and have received immense amount of recognition in a short period of time and if you have the time look it over, please feel free to do so.

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

Jesse Ventura on 9/11 with Alex Jones 2008 -- Part 1 of 3



Jesse Ventura on 9/11 with Alex Jones 2008 -- Part 2 of 3



Jesse Ventura on 9/11 with Alex Jones 2008 -- Part 3 of 3



One more question for you, Jesse.

Do you have any advice for a potential politician in the wings?

I'm neither right-wing conservative or left-wing liberal but somewhere in the middle.

Thanks Jesse. You ROCK!!!



[edit on 9-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

[edit on 9-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 06:13 PM by Maxmars
So let me get myself on a little more 'solid' ground.

Has the issue of whether or not BW is a mercenary organization been resolved? I thought the notion that it's status was in debate was funny. Monetary compensation for armed service during wartime completely separate from military channels deployed by a private enterprise with a stated understanding that they should expect active engagement with known enemy combatants either on a field of battle or in hostile territory outside formal military jurisdiction... where's the 'gray' area here?

What's the resistance to this all about? It's not like being a mercenary is a dishonorable function in and of itself. The principle upon which these organizations are founded are not based on loyalties to, and in support of, national interests, although lately it is difficult to assert that any of our 'campaign' activities are. Sadly, when an armed person is employed to exercise 'the use of force' to any purpose, citizens would like to rely on some known set of 'principles of behavior', or 'rules of conduct' which would give them incentive to trust and cooperate. Gruff mannerisms and bravado are not conducive to trust.

The problem I see with the concept of commercializing this kind of activity is that it circumvents the entire military culture with all of its built-in accountability and safeguards (such as the UMCJ). It would be different if these 'units' were subordinate and accountable to the local military command. But they are decidedly not.

This company and it's 'peers' have only been rendered 'viable' as a result of the niche created and supported by corporate interests inside certain US government 'channels'. It was inevitable that the pressure would rise and the operation would come under some form of civilian scrutiny. Given the public opinion machine in place this may or may not work out o this 'new' industry's benefit, time will certainly tell.

I fail to understand what 'left' or 'right' wing has to do with the reality of situation. It is what it is. Black water has not disclosed that their employees take any oaths or make any contractual commitments to abide by any standards of engagement we have set in place for our service members (nor do I expect are they required to - which is to be expected for a non-military commercial service). By this point alone, I think it is entirely appropriate for any citizen who can envision being confronted by BW personnel in a 'contracted capacity' to be concerned and apprehensive given the organizations public track record and history.

Having only spent minimal time with such individuals in the field I can state that their evident understanding of the 'freedoms' they enjoy in the theater of operations caused many 'regulars' to view them with a mix of 'envy' and 'fear.' Envy that they were able to express themselves outside military protocols and fear that their cavalier approach to circumventing the equivalent of the local 'SOFA' agreement might embroil them in a very 'bad' situation where the 'regulars' are left 'holding the bag'.

Reportedly, BW activities have directly altered the nature and outcome of some engagements that a number of colleagues felt were 'regrettably negative.' Of course, this is just hearsay, unless I can get one of my buddies to join ATS and recount the details (I don't think they really want to tell (yet). But even then, given the nature of the forum, there will always be detractors who seem infatuated with the whole 'dogs of war' 'soldier of fortune' romance and feel any analysis of the (oops EDIT to complete the thought) business which points out it's mis-steps should be squelched.

I do have to admit, many of these employees have great skills and are not inclined to take their jobs lightly. But a 'soldier' without accountable control or legal liability can be a dangerous and frightening thing.



[edit on 9-5-2008 by Maxmars]


reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 06:57 PM by Maxmars
reply to post by DimensionalDetective


You gotta kind of love it, hubris is almost always its own worst enemy.



reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 10:14 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
I was digging more throughout ATS and found this interesting ATS'ers thread on Blackwater and invited j_kalin over with a post on the thread.

Blackwater Spies for Hire

Originally posted by j_kalin

Blackwater Spies for Hire


www.washingtonpost.com
Blackwater Security will now be offerring intelligence services to those who can pay for it.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Hey, I was looking through relevant ATS threads on Blackwater and stumbled across yours. I think we could assist each other's threads on Blackwater if you're interested.

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Want It Or Not...




reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 11:11 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
Looking through My books I've began to dig deeply and to add two and two together to see the final solution and I'm looking through the big thick book sitting on the computer desk entitled Code Names: Deciphering U.S. Military Plans, Programs and Operations in the 9/11 World and there's a map inside the inside cover that shows that the areas of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, and all this general area that is refered to colloquially as "The Middle East" is referred to by The Pentagon as USCENTCOM which covers the war theater of the Iraq War.

Also I took it upon Myself to have gone and posted two times on the ATS "The View From Marrs" forum area under Is Blackwater A Real Threat To Democracy? as I figured I'd see what Jim Marrs had to say about the topic of Blackwater.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 10:46 AM by SpartanKingLeonidas
I just posted a thread to "9/11 Conspiracies" forum and thought I'd share it here as it's relevant to Blackwater in being that their the ground-pounders who will come to take away your guns, rights, and freedoms due to events like September 11th.

Operation Paperclip, NASA, and Jim Jones - CIA Laced Kool-Aid...

I also posted all of this in a quote on the Jim Marrs section of ATS.


You know it's world gone mad when people will believe anything the government tells them to believe, especially fallacies like the September 11th story about 13 "terrorist" hi-jackers allegedly using nothing more than box-cutters to take four planes and fly them into three buildings and a field. I mean, come on people, are we really this gullible to believe that this really happened the way it was spelled out to us in the media which is tightly reigned and controlled by the government to begin with?

There are very few newspapers which are not controlled or who curry favors from the government in order to sweep a tidbit of information under the rug to assist covering up the actual facts in order to have more power elsewhere. Take a look at Operation Paperclip and the willingness of the government to do anything to gain momentum with the "space race" to beat the Russian's into space.

Operation Paperclip :


Did you know that Prescott Bush, who was a part of Wall Street through Brown Brothers Harriman is George H W Bush's father and that through events like WWII was a war profiteer which is evidenced in Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler . I did a review on the book on Amazon after having read it thoroughly.

Amzaon Review by Me : Review Number 10

This book is quite literally a tell all of all the names of who financed Adolph Hitler's rise to power by financial means. The man didn't get into power just by his lies, but by lies of other men too, the men with power, with money, and influence, and the access to Wall Street. You would be surprised to see the names within this book that financed "the funny little man, with the funny little mustache" that almost took over the entire world.

I will not ruin the book for you by telling all the names in it, but I will tell you two men's name I know you will instantly recognize.

Henry Ford & Edsel Ford. Yes, those "Ford's", from Ford Motor Company. Henry Ford even got the highest award the Nazi's could give to a foreigner, in recognition of his assistance to Adolph Hitler, and his picture hung in Hitler's office.

Just so you know, I am not a fan of the Nazi's, nor am I a racist of any kind, nor a fan of Adolph Hitler. I'm following a papertrail to find out all the names of who helped the man get into power to begin with, because I am someone who knows there's more to history than what they teach you in school. It doesn't just come down to the lies a politician tells the people who put them in office, but to the power-brokers who finance the man. Adolph Hitler was a politician, plain and simple. He knew how to lie to the people and give them comfort through manipulative persuasion and then when the people willingly gave him the power he went for the throat of the world.

Another good book that tells the details of who assisted Hitler that you may be able to find here on Amazon is, "IBM and the Holocaust."

Yes, I am talking about that "IBM" here too. They helped Hitler track down the Jews and other "undesirables" (Hitler's words, not Mine) through the use of the census and the Hollerith Card Sorting Machine.


Here's the book I mentioned within the review :

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation

MK-ULTRA :


MK-ULTRA was done by the CIA, or Central Intelligence Agency, who according to the government is supposed to protect us from all foreign enemies but does this through the hiring of foreigners or the influencing of those foreigners to do their biding. I thought the government was supposed to be protect us not hire people who will abuse us on our own soil.

In the book Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army Jeremy Scahill talks about Blackwater and their rise to power, and being influence by J Coffer Black who worked for the CIA that is an organization that sponsors stuff like the CIA Rendition Program which is spelled out in it's entirety in Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Rendition and Torture Program which will of course only end up stirring up more Middle Eastern hatred of American citizens because it's our corrupt government that tortured them. I talk about Blackwater here in this thread entitled Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

Clinton Admits To Mind Control Experiments :


If Bill Clinton is willing to admit to mind control experiments that in itself is scary, imagine what George W Bush must be doing.

The War Conspiracy :


DIA - Defense Intelligence Agency :


I found these interesting YouTube videos with Jim Marrs, one of our ATS'ers.

Secret Societies - Jim Marrs - Part 1 :


Secret Societies - Jim Marrs - Part 2 :


Secret Societies - Jim Marrs - Part 3 :


Jim Jones and Jonestown :


Now come on, are we really supposed to drink and swallow the Jim Jones Kool-Aid of poison laced with cyanide that the events of September 11th happened the way the government tells us? It's quite clear to anyone with a brain that this is a right-wing agenda to take away free-thinking from the populace in order to indoctrinate the mass populace into letting the government "protect" you from your "enemies", which of course is yourself. You are the enemy, to the government, if you think free of their programmed thought processes.


"A View From Marrs" is where I posted all of that and here's the link.

What the White House Wants to Hide


reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 12:46 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
Jeremy Scahill's book Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army has an interesting website link that I have not had the opportunity to investigate as of yet due to all the other stuff I've been digging up for this thread along with other threads elsewhere within ATS but I thought someone here might enjoy a peek at it.

www.blackwaterbook.com

I also found a website that links to people in California that want to block Blackwater from building there.

Block Blackwater

I posted this there from My ATS first post.

I'm reading a very interesting book right now about Blackwater. Yes, that Blackwater over in Iraq, the Middle East, and on American soil as well. On American soil you ask? Yup, according to this book Blackwater is functioning on American soil as a "private Army" which is funded by the Federal Government.

Blackwater is run by a man who along with his family are considered far right-wing conservative, Erik Prince. This book is very informative of the "who's who" that is funding and backing the world's largest "private army" or in other words, mercenaries.

I'm only on the second chapter so far but this is a great book which was written without permission of Blackwater I should add. The author attempted to talk to people in Blackwater but they wouldn't budge. It outlines how Erik Prince is aligned with the Republican Party and how he has donated heavily to them throughout his life, which is not illegal but as we all know Republicans are all about giving money to companies so the companies can pay them off later or guarantee them a job as a CEO or some other position within their walls after a Republican's political life has ended.

I am an avid poster on the website www.abovetopsecret.com where I posted this link specifically in dealing with Blackwater and the coming infringements on Democracy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 10-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 11:10 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
I posted this in Dave Rabbit's forum area. Here's the link to it as well in case you want to tell Dave Rabbit your specific thoughts on Blackwater.

Dave Rabbit, What Do You Think of Blackwater In Iraq?

Dave,

You and I have swapped a few U2U's back and forth about Blackwater, you even gave Me advice about putting a submission into DIGG, and I must say in public thank you so much for the kudos and advice. I have to ask you here, what do you think of the mercenary organization Blackwater and their role over in Iraq right now and their possible role within the boundaries of the United States of America in the near future if enacted through Homeland Security/FEMA in putting America under Martial Law in the case of a National Emergency, say for instance a hurricane, earthquake, or Heaven forbid "nuclear incident in order to bypass Posse Comitatus?

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

I thought I'd include the link up there for you to peruse more in depth and possibly for any of the interested ATS'ers who might have a thought on it.


[edit on 10-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


reply posted on 11-5-2008 @ 12:51 AM by Unit541
Originally posted by Jon1117
Wow, this is great and all, but...

WHO CARES?

yes, we all know about blackwater, its been on national television since 2002.
Have they harmed you? NO!
Have they died in defense of American interests in the middle east? Yes

They're mercs... so what? They are ex-military, they are watched by the government and quite honestly they know more about the way things work in battle than you.

Who cares were the get their money or who owns their organization, THEY WORK FOR US.


Perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before responding, as you seem to be a little misinformed regarding the context of this thread. First of all, they don't work for US, or we wouldn't have them in Iraq. They work for the US government, which stopped representing the American people some time ago.

Additionally, this "does it affect me" mentality is simply sickening. We, the American people are the most apathetic and complacent people on the face of the earth because of this "does it affect me" paradigm. It DOES affect you. Maybe not right now, maybe not right here. But sometime, somewhere, we're all going to pay for our apathy in these matters. Sometimes, I simply feel like saying "what the #", and simply try to ride out the hard times. But that wouldn't be very "American" of me now would it...

It's a tragedy that so many have forgotten what it means to be an American. Being an American comes with a lot of responsibility. We're responsible first and foremost for thinking for ourselves. This is somewhat of a lost "art" among our people. We're addicted to convenience. As Jon1117 illustrates, it's not convenient to bother ourselves with matters such as Blackwater, and what they represent. Well, Jon, it's time to bother yourself. Ask yourself if the actions of Blackwater are in the best interests of humanity. You are human right?


reply posted on 11-5-2008 @ 12:55 AM by SpartanKingLeonidas
Originally posted by Unit541
Originally posted by Jon1117
Wow, this is great and all, but...

WHO CARES?

yes, we all know about blackwater, its been on national television since 2002.
Have they harmed you? NO!
Have they died in defense of American interests in the middle east? Yes

They're mercs... so what? They are ex-military, they are watched by the government and quite honestly they know more about the way things work in battle than you.

Who cares were the get their money or who owns their organization, THEY WORK FOR US.


Perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before responding, as you seem to be a little misinformed regarding the context of this thread. First of all, they don't work for US, or we wouldn't have them in Iraq. They work for the US government, which stopped representing the American people some time ago.

Additionally, this "does it affect me" mentality is simply sickening. We, the American people are the most apathetic and complacent people on the face of the earth because of this "does it affect me" paradigm. It DOES affect you. Maybe not right now, maybe not right here. But sometime, somewhere, we're all going to pay for our apathy in these matters. Sometimes, I simply feel like saying "what the #", and simply try to ride out the hard times. But that wouldn't be very "American" of me now would it...

It's a tragedy that so many have forgotten what it means to be an American. Being an American comes with a lot of responsibility. We're responsible first and foremost for thinking for ourselves. This is somewhat of a lost "art" among our people. We're addicted to convenience. As Jon1117 illustrates, it's not convenient to bother ourselves with matters such as Blackwater, and what they represent. Well, Jon, it's time to bother yourself. Ask yourself if the actions of Blackwater are in the best interests of humanity. You are human right?


Unit541, I couldn't have stated it better than you. I was going to but thought better of it and just "ignored" him right off the thread. Ignorance or apathy aren't needed, but intelligent conversation. Even slackerwire had better chat/posting etiquette than that. Wait, did I just say that out loud? OMG.
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