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The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

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posted on May, 6 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Its sad that you feel you can make claims against the whole of our order. Your knowledge is limited to some jurisdictions or individual rites; as no one anti-mason can attain knowledge in every aspect of the craft. Chances are you know little of the rituals and practices of the White Shine of Jerusalem, or of a Scottish Rite Mason. Likewise, a non-mason knows little of the Ancient and Accepted order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. Even if you were an opponent of multiple rites and affiliates no one man could condemn all lodges and temples. It is impossible.



Unfortunately, anti-Masons tend not to make distinctions about Masonry, or its affiliates, until they are forced to; yet another tactic used as a last resort to blur or combine the "guilty parties."


Please don't plaguraize my

original post
.

Additionally, I did make a distinction. I chose to highlight the substandard practices of the Ancient and Accepted Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine.


Thank you,

Distracto

[edit on 6-5-2008 by Distracto]

[edit on 6-5-2008 by Distracto]




posted on May, 6 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


OK. Just making sure we're on the same page. It seemed to me that you were saying no Mason could defend all of Masonry because of all the separate bodies, but were then trying to condemn all of Masonry because of a few bad apples.

So we agree that as not all men are cut of the same cloth, neither are the associations of men?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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OK. Just making sure we're on the same page. It seemed to me that you were saying no Mason could defend all of Masonry because of all the separate bodies, but were then trying to condemn all of Masonry because of a few bad apples.


I believe you are projecting; though scientifically a few bad apples do spoil the bunch.


So we agree that as not all men are cut of the same cloth, neither are the associations of men?


No man or organization is without blemish. The ancient and accepted order of the nobles of the mystic shrine is just one example.

Sincerely,

Distracto



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by Distracto
 

question: Couldn't your statments be applied to any association. To be real, couldn't you say the same things about baptist, Morman , Elks etc. I for one don't belive that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Human weakness will never be totally overcome. What you should look at is the intent and goals of a group. Also I believe that in the balance if the good done out weighs the evil, then the group must be judge good. Perfection is a goal, not a fact in reality



[edit on 6-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]

[edit on 6-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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It distresses me that the bleeding obvious seems to be stated and restated so frequently on this forum... So, just to jump on the bandwagon (or is it a dog-pile yet?):

Every single human organisation that has ever existed was comprised of flawed individuals. Yeah, humans are flawed! Therefore, no organisation can ever be perfect.


I must be some kind of sage or "light-bearer" or something... Maybe it's my special, secret Masonic wisdom!!



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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Sorry I've got to cut to the chase here, so what we did indeed have good people with motives to better the world, but this idea has long demolished and now the free masons use their power behind doors to manipulate one another.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Distracto
Hello,

Those articles were very interesting skyfloating. You showed that some freemasons have been persecuted for what they believe in. I'm surprised you didn't mention that Hiram Abif was slain for not revealing the secrets of Masonry.


As a point of fact, easily verified in a cursory Google search, Hiram Abif was not killed in the manner depicted in the 3rd degree initiation described HERE. The pageantry accompanying the long, beautiful obligation is called "The Legend of Hiram Abif" and is purely symbolism and allegory. Nothing more. It's in place to convey Freemasonry's Greatest Lesson. "In Masonic legend, Hiran Abif lived and "died" to instill in the hearts, minds, and souls of Freemasons symbolic lessons of life. These include, but are not limited to, the following: Perseverance, Love of Mankind, Courage, Patience, Devotion to God, Fortitude, Justice, Fidelity to a Trust, The Immortality of Man."

I was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason the 8th of May, 2008. I still have memory work and questions to answer before signing the ledger of the Lodge.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by Watermonkey
I was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason the 8th of May, 2008. I still have memory work and questions to answer before signing the ledger of the Lodge.


See how he has "questions to answer?" When someone asks you lots of pointed questions it's called "getting the third degree," right? This comes from the Third Degree Masonic ritual in which you must answer a bunch of deep probing questions.

As I've said before and all the Masons on here continue to deny, to move up in rank you must write essays and answer the questions of higher degree Masons. Based on the answers you give to these questions you are sorted like a mail-slot to the appropriate degree/level of Masonry that fits with your worldview.

Masons rise in degrees through a process of rituals and initiations. They read books like Machiavelli’s “The Prince” and Albert Pike’s “Morals and Dogma” then write essays detailing whether they agree philosophically with people like Pike, Hegel, Machiavelli and others. These essays are then sent in to the Headquarters of International Freemasonry and reviewed by top-level Masons. If the initiate agrees that the few should control the many, and that secret society rule is virtuous, etc. then he is congratulated and promoted through higher degrees. If the initiate disagrees that the few should control the many, and holds a genuinely moral position, then he is congratulated and promoted within his existing branch, never to rise above the Blue degrees. Every Mason will disagree with this however, because most Blue Lodge Masons genuinely do not know, and high-ranking Masons are sworn to secrecy.


"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Parts of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true implication is reserved for Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.” –Albert Pike (Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the 33rd degree and Supreme Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry) “Morals and Dogma”



"Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity - an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect. ... It is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns.
The invisible society is a secret and most august fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious Arcanum arcandrum [a sacred secret]. Those brethren who have essayed to write the history of their craft have not included in their disquisitions [a formal discourse or treatise] the story of that truly secret inner society which is to the body Freemasonic what the heart is to the body human. In each generation only a few are accepted into the inner sanctuary of the work ... the great initiate-philosophers of Freemasonry are ... masters of that secret doctrine which forms the invisible foundation of every great theological and rational institution." -33rd Degree Mason Manly P. Hall, “Lectures on Ancient Philosophy”



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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The process from a 1st to 33rd degree Freemason may take 10, 20, 30 or more years but is not based on time. The way initiates rise degrees is through invitation by members of a higher degree. This is the nature of all secret societies; the only way to get ahead is by appeasing those ahead of you. It is through this boot-licking pyramid structure that the few bloodline elite at the top control the many at the bottom. Then by issuing lords, knights, and vassals of various degrees along the way to do their bidding, the royals essentially control all facets of this world-wide Brotherhood.


"The initiated brother realizes that his so-called symbols and rituals are merely blinds, fabricated by the wise to perpetuate ideas incomprehensible to the average individual. He also realizes that few Masons of today know or appreciate the mystic meaning concealed within these rituals." -33rd degree Mason Manly P. Hall, “The Lost Keys of Freemasonry”



“The invitation-only thirty-third degree … is the highest publicly known degree. The vast majority of members look upon their affiliation with Freemasonry as little different from joining the Lion's Club, the Optimists, or the chamber of commerce. And from their standpoint, this is true. Even Masonic literature makes clear that only those initiates who progress beyond thirty-third-degree status are educated in the group's true goals and secrets. This hierarchy is readily admitted by Masonic authors. ‘There has always existed an external, elementary, popular doctrine which has served for the instruction of the masses who are insufficiently prepared for deeper teaching,’ wrote Mason Wilmshurst. ‘There has been an interior, advanced doctrine, a more secret knowledge, which has been reserved for riper minds and into which only proficient and properly prepared candidates, who voluntarily sought to participate in it, were initiated.’” -Jim Marrs, “Rule by Secrecy” (247-8)


So again I've quoted 2 33rd degree Masons and a respected researcher (Jim Marrs) claiming that Masonry is structured this way. Your own member admits having to answer a bunch of questions before moving up in degree. The whole idea of "getting the third degree" comes from these questions. These questions are how the higher-level Masons control the whole pyramid.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Dude… don't you understand yet that a 33rd degree Mason has no seniority over a Master Mason (3rd degree)?

I haven't taken any appendant* degrees in the Scottish Rite or any other parallel rite, so I don't know about any "questioning" or essay writing that may be involved in obtaining the degrees. But, even if there is some requirement like this, how is it any different to examinations applied to students in other organisations? (like schools, seminaries, St John's Ambulance etc etc)

You're making a mountain out of a molehill, to be honest, in some kind of weird quest to demonise Masonry, or make it seem like the shadowy, centralised, pyramidic power structure that you want it to be.

Again, keeping it simple for you: A 33rd degree Mason (though he is clearly honoured by, and committed to, Masonry) has no seniority or authority over a 3rd degree Master Mason. It’s as simple as that. This is the reason why you don’t see internet records of 33rd degree Masons ordering the others around, whereas all of the other “secrets” of Masonry are abundantly available. Think about it.

(* look up the word "appendant" by the way, dude, so you truly understand the context of the additional degrees).



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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Is there an echo in here?

And haven't you been warned by a site owner about quoting from your book when it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread?



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Roark

I haven't taken any appendant* degrees in the Scottish Rite or any other parallel rite, so I don't know about any "questioning" or essay writing that may be involved in obtaining the degrees. But, even if there is some requirement like this, how is it any different to examinations applied to students in other organisations? (like schools, seminaries, St John's Ambulance etc etc)


You're right, just like schools:


“When you graduate from high school you come out processionally with a black robe, which is black for Saffron, the God of the Hebrews, requiring that you wear the square mortarboard on top of your head. The square mortarboards are, of course, used by the Freemasons for their plaster, so that is why you wear a square mortarboard when you graduate, ultimately becoming an Alumni. It all has to do with Freemasonry; it all has to do with the control of education in this country.” -Jordan Maxwell, “Matrix of Power”


First you pay out your “tuition” to get into “universe”-ity where they strip you of your Intuition and give you an Indoctrination. Then you receive a “Ma-Stars” Masonic “degree,” while wearing a Masonic mortar board cap and Cult of Saturn black robes to become an Alumni/Illumini. Graduation means to increment or retard progress. As Jordan Maxwell says, “the true meaning of Graduation is gradual indoctrination.” Indeed. Stick a bunch of 5 year-olds in a room full of 5-year olds for a year, then a bunch of 6-year olds with 6-year olds and so on for 20 years, until you’re so indoctrinated they give you a doctorate


“The syllables are Ma- for measure and Stor- for Star. ‘measurer of the stars,’- namely an astrologer. Children are still given a star today for successful application to their studies. When we matriculate from a university, we are given a ‘Master’s Degree.’ This is purely sabean. Degrees are part of the cycle of the zodiac. One was given a ‘degree,’ to show that they, like the sun they were progeny of, had ascended to an exalted place. Once you had mastered the stars you were then quite literally a MASTER.” -Michael Tsarion, “Astrotheology and Sidereal Mythology”


Judges and Roman Catholic priests also traditionally wear/wore black robes. Judges have a Masonic hammer or gavel which they hit to declare the word of Law. The idea of law comes from the biblical ten stone commandments and so it is said that you “break” the law. Judges always sit on a three tier high platform representing the first three blue degrees of freemasonry. The same tri-tier platform is found at Congress, and the altar in most Catholic and Protestant churches is three tiers high. That’s also why you get/give someone the “third degree” related to the third degree of Masonry where the initiate is asked a series of probing questions he must answer correctly in order to become a Master Mason. There is usually a gate around church altars just as there are gates with swinging doors in every courtroom. The congregations at church all stand up to recognize the priest, just as all rise when the judge walks in. Then the judge takes a “recess” because he is in “court” playing a game of “ten”nis (commandments), with lawyers who play the dialectic protagonist/antagonist game, bouncing the advantage into each other’s court. In the courtroom witnesses must place their hand on the old/new “testament” before giving their “testimony,” just as a priest’s sermon is often called testimony (also notice “mon” from “moon” in testi-mon-y and ser-mon). As a witness swears in, one hand is placed on the bible while the other is held up; In church, when parishioners feel the holy spirit, often during song, they will hold one or both hands up to praise the lord.


“Then when you get further into Saturn, you begin to understand that his color is black, that he was a God of one of the many different Semitic tribes, or groups, and one of his symbols was a square. Then you get into the square black mortarboard that the university or high school students wear when they graduate. It is a square on his head, and it is usually black. The color of Saturn, one of the ancient Hebrew Gods. This is the same black used on the robe the judge wears when he is going to throw you in jail. Because the black represents Saturn. Saturn is the old Semitic God. That is why churches and courtrooms look the same today, because when you go into churches you sit out here with the poor folks in the chairs out here in the pews, but you cannot go up onto the lifted higher elevation, you can't go inside the gate, you can't go inside the little doors, only the priest can go inside there and officiate for you. You stay on the outside with the poor folks. The altar is always raised at least three tiers, because in Egypt that was the way it was always done. The altar was always raised so the people could see the representative of God dressed in black. The priest comes out on the altar dressed in black, and he is officiating for you, he is the mediator between you and God. That is the same thing that happens in the courtroom, you walk in and you are part of the poor folks sitting out here in the audience, and here is the fence, or gate, that separates you. The attorneys can go inside the gate and they are your mouthpiece, to go talk to ‘God’ for you and see if they can get you off, and the lawyers will be the mediator between ‘God,’ or the ‘judge’ who judges you, and man. That is where all of this comes from in our society today.” -Jordan Maxwell, “Matrix of Power”



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
Is there an echo in here?

And haven't you been warned by a site owner about quoting from your book when it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread?


No, you Mason's keep lying to the public. I keep injecting truth into your threads and you can't stand it. Everything I'm posting is on topic. You're the one's left speechless.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen
No, you Mason's keep lying to the public. I keep injecting truth into your threads and you can't stand it. Everything I'm posting is on topic. You're the one's left speechless.
Obviously not, since I keep replying to your posts.

But I fail to see how three posts from you in a row about education or the masonic initiation procedures have anything to do with the topic "The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry".



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by freight tomsen
 


Freight Tomsen

Let's thrash this matter of 3° vs 33° out in this thread...

I would love to see your response and answers to the questions that I posed in my first post.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

But I fail to see how three posts from you in a row about education or the masonic initiation procedures have anything to do with the topic "The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry".


Your Mason buddy Skyfloating started this thread after my week long information assault on the ATS Secret Society forum which you Masons own. I was online all day every day for a week posting and there were at least 3 of you online at all times to instantly detract from whatever I wrote.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So after this, in attempt to polarize everything and frame me and other knowledgable researchers as "Anti-Mason," the Masons who monitor ATS started these threads.

"The Very Real Conspiracy Against Freemasonry"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and, "A Proposed Framework for Analyzing Anti-Masonry"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As I've stated, there is no "very real conspiracy against freemasonry." Masonry is the conspiratorial secret society and it's ridiculous to even wrap your head around an even more secret society that's conspiring against Masonry. What is this society I belong to?

As I've stated, I'm not Anti-Masonry, I'm Pro-Truth. You Masons lie and monitor this and many other message boards constantly steering human thought, as pointed out by many ATS members in the new thread "Are people paid to steer public opinion on ATS?"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can continue framing me and other truth-seekers as a "conspiracy against Masons" but it's not going to do you any good. As the truth gets out, it is you Masons who will continue looking more and more ridiculous trying to repeat the same old lies.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by Roark
 




Every single human organisation that has ever existed was comprised of flawed individuals. Yeah, humans are flawed! Therefore, no organisation can ever be perfect.


Many charities exist; few lie about donations or misappropriate funds.


As a point of fact, easily verified in a cursory Google search, Hiram Abif was not killed in the manner depicted in the 3rd degree initiation described HERE. The pageantry accompanying the long, beautiful obligation is called "The Legend of Hiram Abif" and is purely symbolism and allegory. Nothing more. It's in place to convey Freemasonry's Greatest Lesson. "In Masonic legend, Hiran Abif lived and "died" to instill in the hearts, minds, and souls of Freemasons symbolic lessons of life. These include, but are not limited to, the following: Perseverance, Love of Mankind, Courage, Patience, Devotion to God, Fortitude, Justice, Fidelity to a Trust, The Immortality of Man."


It is all legend. There is no proof that Hiram Abif, or Hiram Abiv, ever existed. Therefore, that statement is disengenous- unless you are to equate Hiram Abif with King Hiram of Tyre, which would also be disengenous because of lack of evidence.

Furthermore, all Masonic rituals could fall under the umbrella of symbolism and allegory.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by lost in the midwest
 



Couldn't your statments be applied to any association. To be real, couldn't you say the same things about baptist, Morman , Elks etc. I for one don't belive that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Human weakness will never be totally overcome. What you should look at is the intent and goals of a group. Also I believe that in the balance if the good done out weighs the evil, then the group must be judge good. Perfection is a goal, not a fact in reality


Thanks for the question lostinthemidwest!

You are 100% correct. If a church is found to misappropiate funds, or "loose" donations they themselves should be investigated. You are also correct that "weakness" or the "Human Condition" will never be overcome.

However, any dereliction of the law, in this case "profit shifting" or "misappropiation", must be addresssed.

Sincerely,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 03:50 AM
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Many charities exist; few lie about donations or misappropriate funds.


Neither does Freemasonry.

Most charities have administration expenses. In many cases, the costs repaid to the administrators make up a large chunk of the total.

Freemasonry has no administration fees, and every cent collected for charity goes to charity.

When discussing "perfect" charities, we can also look at non-material imperfections. Many charities flaunt what they do in the hope of recognition and reward from the community. Thus, this act of giving could be seen as being done for personal gain (in the sense of recognition and reward in the form af status, as an example. )

Freemasonry, on the other hand, does not advertise their giving, and there is no hope or expectation of reward.



It is all legend. There is no proof that Hiram Abif, or Hiram Abiv, ever existed. Therefore, that statement is disengenous- unless you are to equate Hiram Abif with King Hiram of Tyre, which would also be disengenous because of lack of evidence.

Furthermore, all Masonic rituals could fall under the umbrella of symbolism and allegory.


I agree.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 03:58 AM
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Neither does Freemasonry.


That is debatable in the case of the Ancient and Accept Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. Perhaps you should read a few pages back.



I agree.


As you should. It is fact.

Thank you,

Distracto



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