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Its sad that you feel you can make claims against the whole of our order. Your knowledge is limited to some jurisdictions or individual rites; as no one anti-mason can attain knowledge in every aspect of the craft. Chances are you know little of the rituals and practices of the White Shine of Jerusalem, or of a Scottish Rite Mason. Likewise, a non-mason knows little of the Ancient and Accepted order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. Even if you were an opponent of multiple rites and affiliates no one man could condemn all lodges and temples. It is impossible.
Unfortunately, anti-Masons tend not to make distinctions about Masonry, or its affiliates, until they are forced to; yet another tactic used as a last resort to blur or combine the "guilty parties."
OK. Just making sure we're on the same page. It seemed to me that you were saying no Mason could defend all of Masonry because of all the separate bodies, but were then trying to condemn all of Masonry because of a few bad apples.
So we agree that as not all men are cut of the same cloth, neither are the associations of men?
Originally posted by Distracto
Those articles were very interesting skyfloating. You showed that some freemasons have been persecuted for what they believe in. I'm surprised you didn't mention that Hiram Abif was slain for not revealing the secrets of Masonry.
Originally posted by Watermonkey
I was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason the 8th of May, 2008. I still have memory work and questions to answer before signing the ledger of the Lodge.
"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Parts of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true implication is reserved for Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.” –Albert Pike (Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the 33rd degree and Supreme Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry) “Morals and Dogma”
"Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity - an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect. ... It is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns.
The invisible society is a secret and most august fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious Arcanum arcandrum [a sacred secret]. Those brethren who have essayed to write the history of their craft have not included in their disquisitions [a formal discourse or treatise] the story of that truly secret inner society which is to the body Freemasonic what the heart is to the body human. In each generation only a few are accepted into the inner sanctuary of the work ... the great initiate-philosophers of Freemasonry are ... masters of that secret doctrine which forms the invisible foundation of every great theological and rational institution." -33rd Degree Mason Manly P. Hall, “Lectures on Ancient Philosophy”
"The initiated brother realizes that his so-called symbols and rituals are merely blinds, fabricated by the wise to perpetuate ideas incomprehensible to the average individual. He also realizes that few Masons of today know or appreciate the mystic meaning concealed within these rituals." -33rd degree Mason Manly P. Hall, “The Lost Keys of Freemasonry”
“The invitation-only thirty-third degree … is the highest publicly known degree. The vast majority of members look upon their affiliation with Freemasonry as little different from joining the Lion's Club, the Optimists, or the chamber of commerce. And from their standpoint, this is true. Even Masonic literature makes clear that only those initiates who progress beyond thirty-third-degree status are educated in the group's true goals and secrets. This hierarchy is readily admitted by Masonic authors. ‘There has always existed an external, elementary, popular doctrine which has served for the instruction of the masses who are insufficiently prepared for deeper teaching,’ wrote Mason Wilmshurst. ‘There has been an interior, advanced doctrine, a more secret knowledge, which has been reserved for riper minds and into which only proficient and properly prepared candidates, who voluntarily sought to participate in it, were initiated.’” -Jim Marrs, “Rule by Secrecy” (247-8)
Originally posted by Roark
I haven't taken any appendant* degrees in the Scottish Rite or any other parallel rite, so I don't know about any "questioning" or essay writing that may be involved in obtaining the degrees. But, even if there is some requirement like this, how is it any different to examinations applied to students in other organisations? (like schools, seminaries, St John's Ambulance etc etc)
“When you graduate from high school you come out processionally with a black robe, which is black for Saffron, the God of the Hebrews, requiring that you wear the square mortarboard on top of your head. The square mortarboards are, of course, used by the Freemasons for their plaster, so that is why you wear a square mortarboard when you graduate, ultimately becoming an Alumni. It all has to do with Freemasonry; it all has to do with the control of education in this country.” -Jordan Maxwell, “Matrix of Power”
“The syllables are Ma- for measure and Stor- for Star. ‘measurer of the stars,’- namely an astrologer. Children are still given a star today for successful application to their studies. When we matriculate from a university, we are given a ‘Master’s Degree.’ This is purely sabean. Degrees are part of the cycle of the zodiac. One was given a ‘degree,’ to show that they, like the sun they were progeny of, had ascended to an exalted place. Once you had mastered the stars you were then quite literally a MASTER.” -Michael Tsarion, “Astrotheology and Sidereal Mythology”
“Then when you get further into Saturn, you begin to understand that his color is black, that he was a God of one of the many different Semitic tribes, or groups, and one of his symbols was a square. Then you get into the square black mortarboard that the university or high school students wear when they graduate. It is a square on his head, and it is usually black. The color of Saturn, one of the ancient Hebrew Gods. This is the same black used on the robe the judge wears when he is going to throw you in jail. Because the black represents Saturn. Saturn is the old Semitic God. That is why churches and courtrooms look the same today, because when you go into churches you sit out here with the poor folks in the chairs out here in the pews, but you cannot go up onto the lifted higher elevation, you can't go inside the gate, you can't go inside the little doors, only the priest can go inside there and officiate for you. You stay on the outside with the poor folks. The altar is always raised at least three tiers, because in Egypt that was the way it was always done. The altar was always raised so the people could see the representative of God dressed in black. The priest comes out on the altar dressed in black, and he is officiating for you, he is the mediator between you and God. That is the same thing that happens in the courtroom, you walk in and you are part of the poor folks sitting out here in the audience, and here is the fence, or gate, that separates you. The attorneys can go inside the gate and they are your mouthpiece, to go talk to ‘God’ for you and see if they can get you off, and the lawyers will be the mediator between ‘God,’ or the ‘judge’ who judges you, and man. That is where all of this comes from in our society today.” -Jordan Maxwell, “Matrix of Power”
Originally posted by JoshNorton
Is there an echo in here?
And haven't you been warned by a site owner about quoting from your book when it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread?
Obviously not, since I keep replying to your posts.
Originally posted by freight tomsen
No, you Mason's keep lying to the public. I keep injecting truth into your threads and you can't stand it. Everything I'm posting is on topic. You're the one's left speechless.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
But I fail to see how three posts from you in a row about education or the masonic initiation procedures have anything to do with the topic "The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry".
Every single human organisation that has ever existed was comprised of flawed individuals. Yeah, humans are flawed! Therefore, no organisation can ever be perfect.
As a point of fact, easily verified in a cursory Google search, Hiram Abif was not killed in the manner depicted in the 3rd degree initiation described HERE. The pageantry accompanying the long, beautiful obligation is called "The Legend of Hiram Abif" and is purely symbolism and allegory. Nothing more. It's in place to convey Freemasonry's Greatest Lesson. "In Masonic legend, Hiran Abif lived and "died" to instill in the hearts, minds, and souls of Freemasons symbolic lessons of life. These include, but are not limited to, the following: Perseverance, Love of Mankind, Courage, Patience, Devotion to God, Fortitude, Justice, Fidelity to a Trust, The Immortality of Man."
Couldn't your statments be applied to any association. To be real, couldn't you say the same things about baptist, Morman , Elks etc. I for one don't belive that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. Human weakness will never be totally overcome. What you should look at is the intent and goals of a group. Also I believe that in the balance if the good done out weighs the evil, then the group must be judge good. Perfection is a goal, not a fact in reality
Many charities exist; few lie about donations or misappropriate funds.
It is all legend. There is no proof that Hiram Abif, or Hiram Abiv, ever existed. Therefore, that statement is disengenous- unless you are to equate Hiram Abif with King Hiram of Tyre, which would also be disengenous because of lack of evidence.
Furthermore, all Masonic rituals could fall under the umbrella of symbolism and allegory.