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The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

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posted on May, 7 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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This conclusion is absurd.


Only if you are uneducated or unfamiliar with the cannons and decrees of the Council of Trent; let alone the Catholic anathems or Anathema.


Yes. Similarly one must be a Christian in order to be confirmed as a Catholic.


By Catholic standards which themselves are quite obviously Catholic.




posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


I will not argue the details of Catholisism here.

I could just have easily have used an example of a baptist minister or church (of which Christianity is a prerequisite) who misappropraited funds, of which there are many confirmed and convicted.

The point is, that you cannot hold Freemasonry accountable for the alleged deeds of some Shriners, just as you cannot hold Christianity accountable for the deeds of some Baptists, for example (or Catholics or whoever.)



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


I applaud your effort and bringing forth something different than the usual "satanic ritual abuse" nonsense...

...but do you have anything else to offer than the alleged shriners charity-fund handling?



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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I will not argue the details of Catholisism here.


That would be wise.

In fact, If one is unwilling to accept Catholic Dogmas and Authoity, that individual will be banished (Anathema) under the authority of the Council of Trent.

As many evangelical Christians do not accept the Vatican's authoity they themselves are not considered Christian by Catholics.

Therefore, the terms are not interchangable.

On the other hand, while all Masons are not Shriners, all Shriners are Mason.

Additionally,A Freemason is required to uphold his sworn oaths, regardless of any affiliate membership. Considering prerequisite Freemasonic membership is required, previous sworn oaths are still applicable.

Thank You,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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I applaud your effort and bringing forth something different than the usual "satanic ritual abuse" nonsense...


As I do yours.


...but do you have anything else to offer than the alleged shriners charity-fund handling?


I have a great many other facts to offer. However, as I have previously said "All in time." In fact, I am currently writing a book about it.

The hard part is finding a publisher.

Cheers,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by Distracto

I have a great many other facts to offer. However, as I have previously said "All in time." In fact, I am currently writing a book about it.

The hard part is finding a publisher.




Interesting. Maybe you´re the scholar/author referred to earlier in the thread.

Getting a publisher wont be the main problem if your book is good. Even self-published books on the topic sell well.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Getting a publisher wont be the main problem if your book is good.


Thanks for the motivation, I appreciate it.

However, sometimes that isn't the case. In fact, did you know that the great George Orwell had problems finding a publisher?

More people even read books back then!

Cheers,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


There´s a market shortage of well-researched conspiracy-books. Get the book written and then come back here and open a threade entitled "How to publish conspiracy-literature". You´ll get plenty of ideas.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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There´s a market shortage of well-researched conspiracy-books. Get the book written and then come back here and open a threade entitled "How to publish conspiracy-literature". You´ll get plenty of ideas.


I'll be sure to follow your advice. Thanks again.

Cheers,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by Roark


I haven't taken any appendant* degrees in the Scottish Rite or any other parallel rite, so I don't know about any "questioning" or essay writing that may be involved in obtaining the degrees.


There are none in the higher degrees. The brother was referring to the Catechism of the Blue Lodge, which is a set of questions and answers to be memorized.

There are no essays required in any degree of Masonry, and no required catechisms for any of the Scottish Rite degrees. Some of those degrees do have Cathechisms, and were published by Pike for those interested in them.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by Distracto
 




By Catholic standards which themselves are quite obviously Catholic.


Yes, they are Catholic, as Baptist standards are Baptist, Luthern is Luthern and so forth.



That would be wise.


I would argue it with you anywhere, your dismal belief that you know anything of Catholicism has so far proved to be worth as much as your knowledge of Masonry.



As many evangelical Christians do not accept the Vatican's authoity they themselves are not considered Christian by Catholics.


Catholics don't expect Evangelicals to accept Catholic dogma, it's you know, kinda why we all split? However, Catholics consider anyone who believes in Christ to be a Christian, and never have I ever heard a Catholic say a Protestant was not a Christian.



Additionally,A Freemason is required to uphold his sworn oaths, regardless of any affiliate membership. Considering prerequisite Freemasonic membership is required, previous sworn oaths are still applicable.


If your meaning the misappropriation of funds as going against an Oath... you obviously do not know the Masonic oaths. From reading on the Shriners case, money was spent in an "unethical" way, as in, not given to charity.

It should be known by everyone, Masonry does NOT have to give anything to Charity, and all charitable drives are included in this. In fact, no money donated to a Masonic Lodge may be donated with out a vote from members on a specific amount. For instance, we raise 5k dollars, we then vote to donate maybe 2 or 3k of it, or perhaps all of it.

Same as any church or other organizaton.

Also, you should not judge the Shriners as Masons. A Blue Lodge represents Masonry better then the Shrine, because there are Masons like my self who will never join the Shrine, just as I will never join the York Rite. The word to desribe your attidue would be over generalization.



I have a great many other facts to offer.


Opinions.



I am currently writing a book about it.


Really? Your last name wouldn't happen to be Dubey would it?



The hard part is finding a publisher.


Publlishers typically look for material that would sell.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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and never have I ever heard a Catholic say a Protestant was not a Christian.


Ask a priest. You will hear it, I assure you.


I would argue it with you anywhere


Then please argue it. Argue how the Council of Trent is accepting of the beliefs of non-catholics; thereby, considering Non-Catholics Christian.


I would argue it with you anywhere, your dismal belief that you know anything of Catholicism has so far proved to be worth as much as your knowledge of Masonry.



Really? Your last name wouldn't happen to be Dubey would it?



Publlishers typically look for material that would sell.


Don't resort to defaming and name calling; its not a debate. In the end, all you are doing is proving my original posts critique to be correct.

Thank you in advance,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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It should be known by everyone, Masonry does NOT have to give anything to Charity, and all charitable drives are included in this. In fact, no money donated to a Masonic Lodge may be donated with out a vote from members on a specific amount. For instance, we raise 5k dollars, we then vote to donate maybe 2 or 3k of it, or perhaps all of it.


You are correct in terms of a Freemasonic lodge. I am not speaking of a lodge, but an affiliate. The Ancient Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine is a non-profit organization.


501(c)(10) establishes exemption from federal income taxes for groups, associations or organizations that operate as a fraternal organization. These groups usually operate as "lodges" or sub-chapters under the control and/or supervision of a parent.

The tax-exempt function is related to the cause that these groups raise funds for; for example, the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine (Shriners) support Shriners Hospitals for Children. While they are a tax-exempt organization, the only charitable tax deductible contributions that are allowed must be used exclusively for the support of a recognized 501(c)(3) public charity.


That is why they were investigated to begin with.

Try again.

Thanks in advance,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Distracto

Ask a priest. You will hear it, I assure you.


No, he won't. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the Church's official dogmas, recognizes Protestants as Christians. Catholics call Protestants "our separated Brethren".

Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church is now in full communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches.




Then please argue it. Argue how the Council of Trent is accepting of the beliefs of non-catholics; thereby, considering Non-Catholics Christian.


The Council of Trent is not the rule of today's Roman Catholic Church. Vatican II recognizes the authority of the approved Catechism.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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The Council of Trent is not the rule of today's Roman Catholic Church. Vatican II recognizes the authority of the approved Catechism.


Vatican II reaffirms the Council of Trent.


TEACHINGS OF VATICAN ii/ Council of Trent

9. If anyone shall say that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will - let him be anathema (or cursed to hell).

11. If anyone shall say that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the righteousness of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and charity that is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Spirit and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God - let him be anathema.

12. If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence [fiducia] in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone which justifies us - let him be anathema.

24. If anyone shall say that the justice [righteousness] received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase - let him be anathema.


Thank you in Advance,

Distraco



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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No, he won't. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the Church's official dogmas, recognizes Protestants as Christians. Catholics call Protestants "our separated Brethren".


Certianly. However, they do not call them Christian.



Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church is now in full communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches.


Eastern Orthodox Churchs differ little from the Catholic church; one exception being the Nicene Creed. However, this does not encompass all Protestant churchs at a whole.

Thank you in advance,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Cited from an outside source.


The "Decree on Ecumenism: Unitatis Redintegratio" (1964) is one of nine decrees of Vatican II. It deals with Ecumenism, which the Catholic Church defines as the reuniting of all Christian faith groups under the authority of the pope.



Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life- that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is 'the all-embracing means of salvation,' that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God.




Thank you in advance,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


Don't make me bring Flyersfan in here!


I know priest. I went to a Catholic school all my life, I have known many, many priest. And deacons. And never have I ever heard anyone try and say a Protestant was not a Christian. In fact, I remember in Religion class we had to learn why PROTESTANTS did not believe Catholics where Christian, and how they where wrong and that we are all Christian, we just celebrate differently.

Man, Masonic threads digress to the most off the wall topics..

Anyways.

It would be ignorant to assume all the money you donate to any charity actually goes to charity. Usually it's around 40% or so of total procedes. Reigious institutions is far lower. Not for Profit organizations a bit higher. There is a standard guideline of ethics that says you don't take in procedes for profit, however, if the profit is needed to run the organization, it's not illegal. And as far as I can see from the Shriners case, they did nothing illegal. "unethical" maybe, if the story is true, but not illegal. Being investigated by the BBB is not the same, by far, as being investigated by the FBI or IRS. And in fact, it would have been the IRS that investigated and even prosecuted the Shrine had they done something illegal.

Lies blown out of proportion. Thank you, you proved Sky's message further.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Don't make me bring Flyersfan in here!


Why would you need to?



I went to a Catholic school all my life.


As have I.



I have known many, many priest.


As have I.


This time don't change the subject or log. Explain.



Then please argue it. Argue how the Council of Trent is accepting of the beliefs of non-catholics; thereby, considering Non-Catholics Christian.



Don't waste my time,

Distracto



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Distracto
 


LOL. Wow. No one likes an ass. Welcome to my Blist.



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