what you should know about the 14th Dalai Lama

To those who care, i think that this has very little to do with the Dalai Lama anyway, and that the Chinese Government has merely fingered him in order to make a scapegoat.

Much the same way the U.S did with Osama Bin Laden.

reply to post by crazyboy0


Interesting information... BUT I am suspicious ... your English has a few bits of Chinese-like wording in it. Are you, perhaps Chinese?

Just curious.

Originally posted by baynard
reply to post by crazyboy0

 

Interesting information... BUT I am suspicious ... your English has a few bits of Chinese-like wording in it. Are you, perhaps Chinese?

Just curious.

what does it matter if he is Chinese or not? a fact is a fact no matter the ethnicity of the person stating it.

reply to post by ikaruga


Well I think is ethnicity matters in the terms of bias and what his goal is. It gives us an idea of the mind of the person posting it. *snip*

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Courtesy is Mandatory

[edit on 20-3-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by Sheeper
reply to post by ikaruga

 

Well I think is ethnicity matters in the terms of bias and what his goal is. It gives us an idea of the mind of the person posting it. Since he's chinese we as non chinese can see him as the brain washed racist fool he is. Durrr Durrr Durrr

haha u really have no idea what u are talking about. do u think the news about china in the usa is not biased?? have u ever been to china or even had a conversation with a chinese person??

it seems to me that his only goal was to provide information that the average westerner is not aware of. u are the one who is behaving like a brainwashed idiot.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by ikaruga]

Originally posted by crazyboy0
Don't tell me that Tibet should be independent as a country,because that's facetiosity just like a non_american clamours that Hawaii should be an in dependent country.

Not to belabor the obvious. but why does China need to stifle dissent in Tibet and basically import Han Chinese into the region of Tibet to destroy it's historical ethnic makeup? You are basically assmilating Tibet into China by relocating people from outside of Tibet into the region. Not ethnic cleansing but very similar what Saddam did the oil cities in the Kurd areas of northern Iraq. Change the region by importing people in.

And I suppose the current unrest in Tibet is a sign to you that the Chinese are welcome there too right? Face it, the native Tibetans don't really like you (China) there and would like to be self governed again.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
I apologise DK300, but I don't appreciate your making light of the life or death situation for the people of Tibet.

I shot from the hip because I was annoyed. I take it back. It was unfair of me.

I understand. I get annoyed as well. Forgiven.

That said, I was not making light of the situation in Tibet/China. This has been going on for centuries and both sides have done some pretty despicable things to each other- both citing their reasons as responses. The Dali Lama has had some pretty "iffy" relationships with known terrorists- and my response was more about there isn't anyone without blood on their hands in this situation.

Also it seems to me that the Dali Lama is given the benefit of the doubt because of his role as a "spiritual" leader- I think it is because people need this image in these very dark times- and this was point I was trying to make. Over the years I have read pro and con regarding the Dali Lama and he has been smack in the middle of some pretty controversial situations as a political figurehead- which is far from being a spiritual pariah.

The Tibetans and the Chinese are incredibly secretive and the truth is- they both do propaganda very well- the only way to know for certain is to be there and hang out with the man.

I have read all his books and philosophies- and his relationships with certain individuals and organizations are contradictory to his written and quoted beliefs which says to me- there is another side to this that we cannot clearly see yet.

I apologize for being a bit glib.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by dk3000]

First, let me start out by saying that I am an American who has been living all over China for the past three years. I have spent most of my time in Northeast China, but have also lived in South China and traveled throughout Sichuan and areas such as Jiuzhaigou which harbor a substantial Tibetan minority.

I have seen Tibetans in action. I have seen Buddhist monks. I have been to many temples, including Tibetan Buddhist temples in Jiuzhaigou, which seem to be nothing more than a scam to make money much in the same way other religions do it. These so-called "peace-loving" and "honorable" monks routinely care members of the older Chinese generations into paying exorbitant amounts of money to the temple in order to avoid bad luck or bad spirits.

China is completely in the right here. Imagine if Texas, which used to be it's own country, started setting US government buildings on fire and attacking other people in Texas who were not true Texans. It's pretty much the same thing.

Someone please tell me how the Tibetans are being so horribly depressed and their culture destroyed by the Han Chinese when the Chinese gobernment has spent hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars in the past few years to build railroads to Tibet in order to boost the local economy and raise the living standard of all those who reside in Tibet.

Someone please tell me how Tibetan culture is being systemically supressed and destroyed by the Han Chinese when the Beijing central government just recently approved a multi-million dollar grant to various temples and cultural landmarks throughout Tibet for the purposes of renovating and maintaining said structures.

Most people in the West are chanting "Free Tibet!" when they don't know the first thing about Tibet or China.

Sure, China is keeping out reporters and limiting public knowledge of the events, but in a country with billions of people and a history of unrest what would you recommend in order to protect the greater peace and modern interests at large?

The American media routinely limits reporters access and denies information on issues nvolving national security.

The Dalai Lama supposedly preaches about the necessity and divnity of non-violent protest, but Tibetans are ganging up on defenseless Han Chinese and beating the daylights out of them solely because they are not Tibetan. Does that sound very non-violent to you?

It's not like the average Chinese person has the power to influence what the government will make policy much in the same way Americans don't have much influence over government policy and action.

Come on, use your brains guys. This is a way for America and other Western nations worried about the rapid modernization and development of China to keep China at bay and in check.

Didn't the Dalai Lama visit Bush a couple of months ago? Try that conspiracy hat on for size.

reply to post by ikaruga


I'm no more brainwashed than you are, we have access to any truth we want to seek. I never said I have the whole truth, and guess what, I don't care. Whatever this man is involved with don't matter, their rebellion is all the truth I need, they don't like them, they don't want them there, they don't want them controlling them, they want to keep their minds and their faith free which is something they as communist's can't really understand because they have probably never had that in their life. I feel sorry for Chinese people more than the Tibetans, at least they are on the fringe of hope where as China has long since lost that.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by Sheeper]

reply to post by Sheeper


The Western conception of limited freedom in China is greatly hyperbolized.

I see churches, temples, and mosques everywhere I go.

I have seen protests at government buildings many times. Farmers complaining about money, people complaining about various injustices, unemployed workers, etc. and I have never once seen the police use excessive force or break up a protest for no reason.

99% of Chinese people don't give a damn about Communism or the government. They just want to live their lives and do the best with what they have.

Chinese people are extremely generous, friendly, and hard-working. I think saying they are beyond hope, whatever that is supposed to mean, is devoid of all meaning.

If everything you know about China has been acquired through some sort of internet blog site, media outlet, or the like, and not through personal experience and observation, then you really have no idea what you are saying.

Chinese culture is much different than Western culture, and many of these problems that Westerners have with China are built upon faulty cultural understandings and exchanges.

reply to post by ikaruga


And I just can't understand why so many Americans are on these boards talking trash about how the Chinese aren't welcome in Tibet and therefore should leave.

How many countries is the US gov't unwelcome in at the moment?

The US news is just as bias as anywhere else in the world. Why don't you guys do a bit of traveling first, and then make up your minds.

As you can see by this board and other places. The rest of the world does not feel the same way as you, in general we don't trust the chinese govn't, we see it as corrupt and we see communism as an old dark evil party. Obviously we see things differently but that isn't gonna change, sorry.

reply to post by Sheeper


I never said I trust the Chinese government. Not even once. I simply said I can understand where they are coming from with the Tibet issue.

If China granted Tibet independence, then they would have to grant Mongolia, Taiwan, and Xinjiang independence too. This would greatly destabilize the region, and most likely lead to some fierce fighting.

China is not Communist in the sense that you think of Communism. Why don't you come here for a visit? I'll be more than glad to show you around and help you out with your Mandarin. I think that seeing modern China would most likely shock you.

Most cities in China are very modern these days, especially in the South and along the coast. The recent boon from years and years of immense economic growth is slowly but surely making its way into the poorer and more impoverished regions.

I can understand what you are saying about protecting your assests and such but that doesn't make it right, just as the U.K., Spain, France, ect. ect., have had to give up possessions over foreign territory that didn't rightfully belong to them. We don't look back at history and say dang those dumb spanish couldn't keep their dominance over Mexico, what a bunch of losers, now what do they got? No, we don't do that, most of us are happy for the counties like India so on that gained complete independance, they deserve it. So I'm sorry if I don't have sympathy for such a large country that oppresses it's neighbors.

As far as having personal experience, sure that would be nice to go there and all but I am by no means put off by Chinese people, my gf is half chinese and I find Chinese people here in the states to be upstanding and generous people. But that doesn't deviate my ability to view China as a country the way I do.

Originally posted by Sheeper
I can understand what you are saying about protecting your assests and such but that doesn't make it right, just as the U.K., Spain, France, ect. ect., have had to give up possessions over foreign territory that didn't rightfully belong to them. We don't look back at history and say dang those dumb spanish couldn't keep their dominance over Mexico, what a bunch of losers, now what do they got? No, we don't do that, most of us are happy for the counties like India so on that gained complete independance, they deserve it. So I'm sorry if I don't have sympathy for such a large country that oppresses it's neighbors.

I think its rather obvious that the British, American, Spanish, and French colonies are much different situations then the situation China would face if it were to give independence to these minorities. These are places that would border China if given independence. Not some faraway land on a distant continent.

Either way, I must once again reiterate that these regions, which are said to have a majority that want independence by Western media sources, are far better off being a part of China than not being a part of China.

Sad truth is that hes right about Tibet.
Yes, dont listen to all kinds of idiots, hippies, meditating movie stars and just check it yourself, before chinese invasion tibet was like hell for peasants, it was hell for everyone exept monks!
They were terated like animals, even worse. All of them were working for monks who owned them, yes, OWNED THEM like items!
There was special torture, for example, applied to peasant who travelled without permission, these peace loving monks had a scissors that were used to cut back of his feet...
Peasants were paying more food and everything to monasteries than any peoples on the world even in most dark ages. There was a torture room in every monastery for those who didnt obeyed orders or payed small tribute! Most peoples in tibet didnt even heard about medicine before chinese invasion, why? Because it was forbidden by monks!
These are facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont act like idiots, read something about that but not written by monks who ruled and opressed this country for centuries...

Before some american brainwashed fools will call me chinese agent i will tell you that i was in Tibet and im from europe.

Originally posted by LordHumungous

Before some american brainwashed fools will call me chinese agent i will tell you that i was in Tibet and im from europe.

At least someone here is seeing things realistically. Haha...but wait! I am American and somehow I managed to survive the brainwashing and I am not a Chinese agent. There is hope for us yet!

reply to post by ikaruga


I didn't realize that the U.S. invaded Texas and forced them to become a state? Anyway, China has a dubious human rights record, that is current.
They have killed millions on their journey to build the perfect earthly utopia. When the communist took over by force. The old government and some of it's followers, retreated to Taiwan. A thriving country; that China
is just etching to invade. What so they can free them from their oppressors?
Ha Ha, what a joke.
Sure many in the west love what the Chinese government is doing. They want to do the same thing here and every where. Take over by force. Control everything. Including the freedom of speech. Freedom of thought and yes, even procreation.

reply to post by ikaruga


Simple answer is; "two wrongs, don't make a right".
Chinese government says, "it's OK for us to invade and take over Tibet"
because of these sins...........
U.S., often does the same.
Everyone is claiming the moral high ground. While no one is moral.
If everyone minded their own business it would be a better world.
But when one person starts beating up his neighbor; then everyone has to get involved. Hey, you Chinese imperialist lovers. I thought imperialism
ended over hundred years ago?

Yeah yeah, justify their imperialism. If they felt the same way you did, you know because they are so much better under China's rule then why are they so unhappy with it. Don't be so arrogant as to speak for these people, they are speaking for themselves and they obviously don't share the same mentality as you. So were brainwashed and your not, well if either one of us was truly brainwashed we wouldn't really know it would we, besides that is just a cop out people say to put their view into some false superior light. Since your argument is about "the facts" then face the fact that these people want there own freedom and their own chance to see if their better off or not.

They have the right to want to be their own nation and decide their own fate just as Kosovo wants independence from Serbia. Ofcourse there is no getting through to people like yourselves so have the last words and I will try to erase your ignorance from my memory. And why don't get off your high horse and express your beliefs and try and convince your drivel to an actual refuge. You know, my gf's family were refugees from Laos and you should here what she has to say about your beloved china and what they helped do to that poor country.