I'm God

Originally posted by nuts!
I did however ask a simple enough question, it would be simple for you if you were indeed god.

no... it shouldn't. most deities aren't omniscient... i've only claimed to be omnipotent but incompetent in the use of my omnipotence, i have no special knowledge above humanity, just the potential to do really cool things

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Oh that’s easy. I do acknowledge your divinity even though you exist as a faceless forum member. I respect your presence in making everyone think for once on how their opinions and beliefs affect their perceptions on who (i.e. you) is divine or not.

But then again out of fairness, we cannot come to know how divine you are not unless you give us evidence that appeals to our current five senses. Without some proof to not just me but to several others, I cannot just simply believe you are divine just because you said so via online.

In order words, there is no comparison between your divinity and others. Each person is unique. For example, a hand won’t be a hand without its five fingers and none of those digits are the same in length and in strength, yet together they make a functional tool for which mankind is able to be ‘master’ over its land.

However, I cannot take one side or the other either. I leave that up to each person or forum member to decide. Our differences are really many parts in a whole scheme of things. And for those who believe in one source of divinity, we are all one. For those who don’t, that’s fine too. I hope this makes sense.

But then again what do we really know about divine beings.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
also... to pick this apart a bit more. there is no evidence of the eyewitnesses, people just state they were there.

Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius documented their existence. If you are expecting to find their DNA in a vial, all ten finger prints impressed in the record, and a tissue sample that isn't going to happen. But we can reasonably believe the records. If not, toss out about 200 people taught in the history books because all we have is "people who just state they were there."

jesus has no crucifixion record or eyewitness testimony, only claims of testimony well after the fact

If John, Matthew, and Mark were eye witnesses as is recorded outside the Bible, then I would have to say that would be eye witnesses testimony. You could say they are psuedographical but that would go against what is recorded by eye witnesses in the first century and the beginning of the second century. Same thing with Jude and James. I don't know about you but if my half brother claimed to be God he better have some massive evidence for me to believe it. Tacitus most likely referenced Roman records when he documented Jesus' death, the same for Josephus, etc.

this would lend no validity to any claims...

It would sure as heck make people wonder what exactly happened with you, though.

all i'd have to do is find some predictions and fulfill them myself with prior knowledge...

Sure. Some could easily have been self fulfilled. But the Daniel and Genesis prophecy would have been tricky. After all, they told when the Messiah would come. No mortal human could choose when they would live. Or their ancestry, city of birth, manner of death, etc. Riding on a colt or speaking in parables could be self fulfilled. Sure. But He had no control over the "forerunner" and dozens of others.

Anyways. No, you don't have to do what Jesus did. But do something. Anyone claiming to be God needs to do something to prove themselves. And yes, of course, I realize this thread was tongue-in-cheek.

I used to be Omnipotent..

But then I discovered Jessica Alba

God said.
"Without faith I am nothing!"

But then man said
"Ah!! but the babel fish PROOVES you exist!!"

To which God replied..
"Oh I never thought of that!!!" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

THHGTTG..

Originally posted by AshleyD
Clement,

show me

Polycarp,

show me

and Ignatius documented their existence.

show me...
wait, of loyola?
that ignatius?
that wouldn't be documenting their existence, that would be supposition since he lived during the counter-reformation...

If you are expecting to find their DNA in a vial, all ten finger prints impressed in the record, and a tissue sample that isn't going to happen. But we can reasonably believe the records. If not, toss out about 200 people taught in the history books because all we have is "people who just state they were there."

how about a testimony from one of them that's dated to the proper time?

If John, Matthew, and Mark were eye witnesses as is recorded outside the Bible, then I would have to say that would be eye witnesses testimony.

we don't necessarily have their testimony... as the books we have date to 55AD at the latest.
it's incredibly unlikely that those people wrote the gospels. most bible historians that know what they're talking about will tell that to you
and where is the evidence outside the bible?

You could say they are psuedographical but that would go against what is recorded by eye witnesses in the first century and the beginning of the second century.

beginning of second century?
sorry, there wouldn't be a single eye witness alive at that point... considering that living to 60 was considered quite the accomplishment, i doubt people would have been able to watch and remember the crucifixion in 30something and live into the second century...
and where is it recorded?

Same thing with Jude and James. I don't know about you but if my half brother claimed to be God he better have some massive evidence for me to believe it.

ok, show me the evidence that says we have their eyewitness testimony

Tacitus most likely referenced Roman records when he documented Jesus' death, the same for Josephus, etc.

josephus is most likely an insertion and you're simply assuming something about tacitus. bring up the tacitus quote on jesus.

Sure. Some could easily have been self fulfilled. But the Daniel and Genesis prophecy would have been tricky. After all, they told when the Messiah would come. No mortal human could choose when they would live. Or their ancestry, city of birth, manner of death, etc. Riding on a colt or speaking in parables could be self fulfilled. Sure. But He had no control over the "forerunner" and dozens of others.

well, the birth place... easy to pick apart, as jesus was born in two places (read the nativity stories)
ancestry, easy to forge that one in the bible
manner of death? ok, that one is RIDICULOUSLY easy to do
show me something that jesus couldn't have forged.

Anyways. No, you don't have to do what Jesus did. But do something.

i just told you i was incompetent...
hmm
i shall make 2 predictions: in the upcoming year, someone over the age of 40 shall win the american presidential election
and scientology will hit massive resistance

Anyone claiming to be God needs to do something to prove themselves.

lower case...
i'm claiming to be a god, not the God
and jesus sure as hell doesn't need to... doesn't seem like he's done anything to prove himself in the last 1965 years...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
show me

show me

show me...

Sure. No problem. I've written gajillions of articles on the subject on my own personal website. Just type in the names of the ones I listed above into my search box to find their writings. Sorry my site is so bland. Never really got around to sprucing it up. CLICK HERE.

wait, of loyola?

No, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, and Polycarp of Greece. All apostolic fathers and witnesses. They were associates of the original apostles who documented their writings. All in their works reproduced online.

how about a testimony from one of them that's dated to the proper time?

They were all within the proper time of the original apostolic ministry. You have the wrong Ignatius.

beginning of second century?
sorry, there wouldn't be a single eye witness alive at that point...
considering that living to 60 was considered quite the accomplishment, i doubt people would have been able to watch and remember the crucifixion in 30something and live into the second century...

John lived to about the age of 90. Others who were children who witnessed Jesus' ministry still survived (albeit a handful) lived into the early 2nd century and went before the Roman government to testify. It's all recorded in to the works.

and where is it recorded?

Numerous places but I'd start with the three names mentioned above. They weren't witnesses to Jesus but they were assistants to the apostles and documented their ministry and authorship.

josephus is most likely an insertion and you're simply assuming something about tacitus. bring up the tacitus quote on jesus.

Incorrect. Some believe Christians later interpolated divine descriptions into Josephus' already existing passage but the James-Jesus passage is unmolested. Even the oldest copies of his work mentions Jesus as a teacher who was crucified without referring to Him as the Christ. Tacitus said about Jesus:

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of Rome also."

Critics like to claim "But that was after his lifetime!" I like to ask, when else was it supposed to be recorded? He was a Roman historian. Not a futurist. He's obviously not going to record someone's death before it happens. Justin Martyr even references Jesus' birth in the Roman census records that survived into his time. All available on the internet.

manner of death?
ok, that one is RIDICULOUSLY easy to do

Is it? When Isaiah wrote his prophecies, crucifixion wasn't even a popular form of execution. Some say it didn't even exist yet.

show me something that jesus couldn't have forged.

I'd say Daniel prophesying His death to the very year is mighty impressive and uncontrollable. All available online today.

Hey if where fighting for the belief that God and Christ are alive, I am all for it.

But you trying to say that Jesus didnt die on a cross, for I dont know if I dont believe it. The bible says it all over that he die on cross.

We are all Gods in hiding my friend, Where do you think gods were before they were gods.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by darcon]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
seriously, i'm an omnipotent deity.

want me to prove it?
well... i really can't. you see, i may be omnipotent, but i'm not omniscient and thus cannot demonstrate the full extent of my power... or any extent of it at all. but i know that i'm a deity.

my first act as god is to ask why you shouldn't believe in me.

:shk:

First off you are not God- you have no powers except the power in your fingers typing to harm or discredit anyones faith including mine.

You have totally lost it Madness thats what happen when you have a name such as this. I know we have disagreements but thats not the point. You fight tooth and nail to prove to everyone that their is no God.

If you want to continue you path of destruction and refuse to believe thats ok- I can't help someone who refuses to listen to anyone for that matter.

Its like arguing with a rock and thats a waste of my time sorry.

There are many gods in this Omniverse.

Originally posted by Leyla
First off you are not God- you have no powers except the power in your fingers typing to harm or discredit anyones faith including mine.

um...no, i also have the power of speech, bipedal locomotion, problem solving, eating, breathing, sleeping, etc etc... i can actually do quite a bit

and you cannot prove that i'm not god....

You have totally lost it Madness thats what happen when you have a name such as this. I know we have disagreements but thats not the point. You fight tooth and nail to prove to everyone that their is no God.

prove that there's no god?
first off, it's no gods
secondly, i don't have to...that's the whole point of this exercise.
you immediately assume that i'm not omnipotent in the same way that you assume that there isn't a zeus and that i assume that there are no gods.

If you want to continue you path of destruction and refuse to believe thats ok- I can't help someone who refuses to listen to anyone for that matter.

path of destruction. pray tell, what's so destructive about my path?
i have to be on my best behavior all the time. i have no little box i can go to for forgiveness, i have nobody to ask for forgiveness other than those i harm. so tell me, what's so destructive about being an independently moral person?

Its like arguing with a rock and thats a waste of my time sorry.

arguing with a rock? if you had arguments and reason, i'd be swayed. if you showed me why it's logical to believe in a deity, i'd believe. but you haven't.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


So now you want to listen? Thats a shocker.

First off how can you be a god when you have a souless body?

For starters read the first chapter in Genesis.

This is why I believe there is God.

And far as I know He was already in exsistance. Its beyond my understanding.

Have patience first off- your demanding to everyone to prove that God exsists. Well just look around He's all around us.

You know what never mind what religion says- tell you the truth I'm getting a bit tired of it myself. I would get a Hebrew-Greek/ English version and read that.

Or look up Lee Strobel and see what books he has out.

listen if the OP doesn't want to believe in god let him. There is god within, and there is god's governing this planet, but if he wants to live his life in the Dark so be it. Who are we to help him out. Let him believe there is nothing in this life after him but darkness. That darkness is only for him though. you are what you create. If you create Darkness you shall get. We are all gods in hiding my friend. One thing i disagree with is WHO are you too CHALLENGE Others beliefs. You are doing more Damage than good OP. If the intent was to help people than you are doing a Really bad job. If your intent was to hurt peoples beliefs, WELL DONE.

Hey Maddy, your another for the books. You also need to go over and talk to no_one817. The two of you could possibly get your own covert talk show together. You could say everything but mean nothing together.

[edit on 2/10/08 by TEMELUCHUS]

Originally posted by TEMELUCHUS
Another for the books. You also need to go over and talk to no_one817. The two of you could possible get your own covert talk show together. You could say everything but mean nothing together.

exactly what this guy said. I don't know why this thread is even up. all it is doing is Hurting other peoples beliefs and the making the OP superior. This is all it is. It is a EGO trip . I believe the mods should close this down before anymore people loose faith.

reply to post by darcon
It would take a lot more for the members of ATS to lose faith than this hacker could ever come up with. Just pay no attention and the poster will slink away.

Guys, I'm pretty sure MIMS was being facetious with this thread.

Sorry for the one-liner but I don't know what else to say. It's pretty obvious by the beliefs expressed by MIMS on numerous threads that he has his tongue firmly tucked inside his cheek in this case.

reply to post by TEMELUCHUS


Oh i know this, he will never affect my belief, but i do not know about others. People can get very hurt on this sort of Subject. Especially People who only believe there is one god. For him to say such a statement as there is no GOD, could affect such people. I know most people that will see this thread will laugh at the OP. But to some it will Affect there belief, Which he has no right to do.

reply to post by TEMELUCHUS


hacker?
i'm just a guy putting forth an argument.

...and no, ashley, i'm not being facetious, i'm just putting forth an argument in a controversial manner.

you cannot disprove that i am a deity...but that doesn't mean i am a deity
i cannot disprove that your god exists...but that doesn't mean the he exists

I'm curious about something...

1. All men are mortal
2. Adam is a man.
3. i.e. Adam is mortal

Let's apply this to the OP:

1. Madness claims to be god
2. However, Madness doesn't believe in god (Atheist)
3. i.e. Madness can't be a god; thus contradicting statement #2

~Ducky~