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posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by HornedOne
Because it’s the easiest let’s do the great flood first.

You, as a believer in god, know the list of “begats” in the bible and know that they add up to roughly 6,000 years. The world hasn’t been flooded in the last 6,000 years, in fact there is no trace the world has ever been totally flooded.


Alright, as to your first argument: I'm pretty open about not necessarily believing in a 6,000 year old Earth, accept the gap theory as a possibility, am not convinced as to whether or not the genealogies are closed so this argument does not create the need in me to convert to atheism.


The great flood is the one thing that could be scientifically proved and presented world wide as undeniable evidence of the existence of the biblical god and stop the evolution debate (that’s destined to wipe out the faith) in it’s tracks yet the church doesn’t see that it’s worth while attempting to prove it even though, compared to proving evolution, it would be simple and relatively cheap.


There has been much evidence presented to verify a world wide flood but I typically consider the evidence of flood geologists the same way I view evolutionary scientists: What are you trying to push on me now, how long will it take for your evidence to be debunked, and what will you say when you have to recant this evidence? Some of the evidence they put forth is fascinating, some of it is a joke.


Well, all the animals of the world couldn’t cross the planet to get to the meeting point.


Pangaea was not separated until after the flood according to Genesis. The continents had not yet been divided. The flood takes place in Genesis 6 and the continents are divided in Genesis 10. Therefore, this argument poses no problem.


We’ve got the dimensions and the dimensions aren’t big enough to hold all the animals + their food + store their waste.


All of these arguments have been answered many times by apologists.


It’s interesting to note, Moses would have had no idea how many animal species there really were across the world at the time he was chatting with god. Oh well, no bearing on the dimensions I guess.


You mean Noah?
Reminds me of the old joke:

Person 1: How many animals did Moses take into the ark?
Person 2: I don't know! How many?
Person 1: None. It was Noah.


...Moving on: If you attempted to dismiss all that, which can’t be done...


Actually, yes it can and it has.


what happened to all the water? Look at Gods law: in order to survive we need to exist in a “closed system”, the water can’t get out. We know it’s not under ground, we know it’s not in the sky, so where is it?


All answered previously. And actually, they have found large deposits of underground water and no one knows why it is there. We also believe the earth was completely "revamped" after the flood and that the oceans are possibly larger than they were in antediluvian times.


Here’s one of the good ones: if you interbreed you will get genetic degradation which will lead to extinction.


Interbreed with who/what?


I am a little surprised god didn’t alert Moses to that one when he was loading animals 2 x 2 and several of others into the Ark.


Noah, Noah, Noah. Not Moses.



So what are you going to do? Tell me the bible is open to interpretation? Tell me god bent all his laws that made him great in order to have his flood?


No. I'm not going to say that. But I will say it seems you are a little confused with what we believe about the flood, the geographic changes that occurred to due it, and the differences between the antediluvian and postdiluvian ages.


How come, if we all descended from Noahs little family group and have the same original knowledge passed down (including gods demonstration of power to ignore all the natural laws created by god), why are we debating this over the internet? Why is our history and heritage not the same across the world, especially given the biblical fact it’s only been a few thousand years and we know man can retain his heritage for thousands of years.


Actually, you just helped confirm a little pet theory of mine. If you notice, many ancient accounts bear a similarity. It seems this is due to a common primordial faith although other cultures distorted their versions after their separation.


No need to answer the questions, the answers are part of historical and scientific fact.


I really could start saving some time in the future then if I actually read the entire posts before replying to them!


Anyways, no need to continue. I can see where this is going and that most of your arguments have already been asked by others and answered elsewhere. This might have stumped me when I was a "newborn Christian" but not today. This is enjoyable, though.


And just a reminder: This is MIMS's post about him being God- not me being the defender of the Christian way.




posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Oh dear. Didums gets worked up does he?

I'll have to play you on that one, it's fun. Here goes then:

Apparently you are dumber than I, at first, thought.

So you are telling me scientists don’t reduce the number of experiments they carry out by the process of elimination. They don’t use common denominators? They just fire ahead and test everything?

Well gee they must be all stupid and arrogant. (Wow I like being stupid and arrogant if that’s your criteria.)

Yes well a statement that you don’t know the facts hardly lives up to your claim: “Other words boy I know what I am talking about, unlike you.” (Not engaging brain yet.)

Can I assume that means you know a lot about nothing?

I’ll just sit here and wait for you to come up with an example where a religion is based on an event involving a group encountering a god.

It seems to me some one who claims “I know what I am talking about, unlike you” would have come across some evidence of something that earth shattering if it had happened.

It also seems to me that, even someone as dumb as you, would realise, if it had happened, that that religion would not only survive today and be documented, it would be the strongest religion on the planet.

Good comment: “Yet your unable to offer solid proof to back your claims.” Um did I detect being asked by you for proof of what I said is fact and fail to respond? I must have missed that. Okay now we are getting to the real definition of “Stupid and arrogant”. Thanks for that.

Ohhhh gee more bs atheistic preaching…….. Oooooo touchy. Didn’t have a real response for that one? Never mind something will come to you later. But seriously, don’t know what preaching is either?

How about you demonstrating the logic of believing in Genesis versus scientific fact. You might like to throw in the total logical proof in the bible derived by theists versus the amount of logical proof in evolution provided by atheists.

Oh yes ….Killer proof on “false logic” ….to quote you LOL in fact ROFLOL.

Grudge: 1. a feeling of ill will or resentment:

There’s a good little fellow go and look up “resentment” and then figure out, using what I’ve already said, why that one doesn’t work either.

If you start struggling, don’t hesitate to come back for an explanation (I know these big words can be difficult to comprehend.)

See I told you "Engage brain before speaking" was useful.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by HornedOne
 



Oh dear. Didums gets worked up does he?

I'll have to play you on that one, it's fun. Here goes then:

Apparently you are dumber than I, at first, thought.


Yeh holier than thou types tend to get under my skin. And as for you being smarter than I. LoL!!!!!!



So you are telling me scientists don’t reduce the number of experiments they carry out by the process of elimination. They don’t use common denominators? They just fire ahead and test everything?

Well gee they must be all stupid and arrogant. (Wow I like being stupid and arrogant if that’s your criteria.)

Yes well a statement that you don’t know the facts hardly lives up to your claim: “Other words boy I know what I am talking about, unlike you.” (Not engaging brain yet.)

Can I assume that means you know a lot about nothing?


Yet I lack the gruitious blanket statements that punctuate your rants. hEh
I probly need to explain one to you but eh, no use trying to teach a zealot any
thing.



I’ll just sit here wait for you to come up with an example where a religion is based on an event involving a group encountering a god.


Really shouldn't put words in my mouth little one. Your statement
was false I was merely pointing that out.



It seems to me some one who claims “I know what I am talking about, unlike you” would have come across some evidence of something that earth shattering if it had happened.

It also seems to me that, even someone as dumb as you, would realise, if it had happened, that that religion would not only survive today and be documented, it would be the strongest religion on the planet.


1) It's realize btw. Might want to make sure you can spell prior to calling someone dumb zealot.
2) Yet atheism has not done such either. Hmmmmm. Perhaps no conclusive evidence exists for either side. Regardless of you ranting otherwise.



Good comment: “Yet your unable to offer solid proof to back your claims.” Um did I detect being asked by you for proof of what I said is fact and fail to respond? I must have missed that. Okay now we are getting to the real definition of “Stupid and arrogant”. Thanks for that.


Nope but I realize your grasp on reality is tenuous at best.
Awww did I hurt you with the that comment so you have to pull an elaborate "I know you are but what am I?". Poor you.



Ohhhh gee more bs atheistic preaching…….. Oooooo touchy. Didn’t have a real response for that one? Never mind something will come to you later. But seriously, don’t know what preaching is either?


Rrrriiiiighhht regardless what fantasies you may concoct in your mind I have not stated any of my beliefs. While you state the the real out there belief that atheism gives you logic. Mmmmmk What color is the sun in your reality?



How about you demonstrating the logic of believing in Genesis as scientific fact. You might like to throw in the total logical proof in the bible derived by theists versus the amount of logical proof in evolution provided by atheists.


Funny thing evolution is supported by Christians who happen to be scientists as well. Though I hardly care as I am not a Christian.
It is NOT an atheist's theory. Do you even know a little of what your talking about?



Oh yes ….Killer proof on “false logic” ….to quote you LOL in fact ROFLOL.


I call blanket statements false logic. Exactamundo. I know you call that knowledge but hey some of prefer to play pretend with real life I don't pretend to understand it.
And did you jam those statements together so you could spin it into some nonsensical response?
Must have.
Allow me to set you straight.
Your logic is false as is most so called logic of blanket statements tend to be.
Not all black people are "gangstas" etc as some like to believe. There is an example of a blanket statement.
And as for your lack of proof as to there being no god in any shape or form.
Well. That is self evident.
Especially in light of your idiotic blanket statement of "If you can disprove one you can disprove them all."
Or your obvious other unsaid blanket though, "If you can disprove one story you can disprove them all so why try."

Or how about this one "All gods are based on historical people that legends grew around," considering that cannot be proven as well. As I was able to point out in my last post and you unable to refute.



Grudge: 1. a feeling of ill will or resentment:

There’s a good little fellow go and look up “resentment” and then figure out, using what I’ve already said, why that one doesn’t work either.

If you start struggling, don’t hesitate to come back for an explanation (I know these big words can be difficult to comprehend.)

See I told you "Engage brain before speaking" was useful.


LoL! So let me guess your claiming your limited definition of grudge is now the definition of resentment right?
Oh and here is the definition of resentment seeing as to how you have that one wrong too.

re·sent·ment /rɪˈzɛntmənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-zent-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the feeling of displeasure or indignation at some act, remark, person, etc., regarded as causing injury or insult.

AND.


re·sent·ment (rĭ-zěnt'mənt) Pronunciation Key
n. Indignation or ill will felt as a result of a real or imagined grievance. See Synonyms at anger.

AND.


resentment
noun
a feeling of deep and bitter anger and ill-will

Source:Resentment @ Dictionary.com
Really should do your research before making your statements.

So anymore delusional rantings you wish to throw my way?

Wear that grudge like a crown.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


First, when I quote “Moses” and not “Noah” it is correct. I was implying that when Moses created the great flood story he made errors because he only knew what he knew. If god had given him the story he would have known Noahs ark was not big enough to do what was said. And it couldn’t, that isn’t open to logical debate.

The fact is I’ve been through the debate before and like any other theist you cannot supply scientific and logical argument to support it.

I confirm, there is no scientifically proven flood catastrophe in the history of the earth. It never happened.

We know how long ago the earth was one plate and it is absolute and undeniable fact that there was no man around at that time (in more than a knuckle dragging hairy version) for the animals to walk to (without going into the details why).

We also know there are species formed after the land masses separated which are unique to each land mass. What we have today couldn’t have been the product of breeding of animals living at the time the land masses comprised a single plate. That would require evolution to be fact.

We also know many species we have today, weren’t around when the earth was a single plate. Are you endorsing evolution?

Finally for this point, and perhaps most importantly, at the time you allege the flood took place, dinosaurs still walked the earth and we know what that does to your theory of putting all the animals on the Ark. One pair of animals could weigh up to 260 tons. You be lucky to get that pair and their food requirement on the ark alone, especially considering you could only have one deck, not to mention the thickness and weight of the wood required to construct that deck.

Also not to mention, many small species would take generations to get to one spot on earth.

With regard to inter-breeding I mean: one family breeding, breeding again and again and again without new genetic material being introduced will become weak and die out. The animals on the ark couldn’t repopulate the earth it’s not possible under gods genetic laws.

Given the temperature of the earth and the amount of water that needed to be concealed the “hidden in the earth” theory simply doesn’t and can’t work. Don’t listen to theists listen to science.

You have not responded to a number of the most major, unanswerable questions but, based on your other comments, your arguments are based on the usual, provable to be, factually incorrect assumptions and scientific impossibilities that only a person unwilling to accept scientific fact or use logic could accept.

You desperately want to believe so you listen to and gather “facts” from people who have an unscientific idea they believe they can use to convince others, just like Moses, that Moses’ stories could hold up to scientific scrutiny, they can’t.

To the world of science, to be blunt, the theories are a nonsense. Statements that have no hope of ever being proven in fact and, for the most part, are considered so obviously unsustainable to the scientific community they are not worthy of an official response.

The people who supply these broad theories don’t understand there are too many logical holes to plug (such as the one plate earth theory resulting in a need to put dinosaurs on the ark) and the fact is the greatest theological minds in the world can’t defeat any major feature of my simple argument with actual identifiable fact.

Note: The dinosaurs couldn’t have died out in a catastrophe as that would have wiped out man as well so they were around at the time of the ark.

The bottom line is, there was no flood, they couldn’t build the ark, the animals couldn’t get to the ark, the ark wasn’t big enough, they couldn’t store the food required, there was no food for after the flood, the people on board couldn’t care for the animals, the animals couldn’t have survived the environment and if all that could be resolved inter-breeding would have wiped them all out.

Seriously look at you arguments and realise they, simply and logically, don’t and can’t work, they’ve been crushed beyond resurrection many times.

In this set up do you know what the killing blow to the debate is? That you would feel a need to debate it. Your god created the universe and everything in it from nothing and you feel the need to defend something as miniscule as a flood (without resorting to an explanation including the power of god to “just do it”). As this is the case where did all the water come from originally?

It seems rather pointless addressing the other points if, I know, which I of course already did, that you are willing to believe in the illogical and impossible and ignore fact.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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Ok, folks, looks like some are going fishing and are reeling in those taking the bait. This will stop now.

For all, check this out:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by HornedOne
First, when I quote “Moses” and not “Noah” it is correct. I was implying that when Moses created the great flood story he made errors because he only knew what he knew.


You said: "I am a little surprised god didn’t alert Moses to that one when he was loading animals 2 x 2 and several of others into the Ark."



But we can let it fly on your first reference.


The fact is I’ve been through the debate before and like any other theist you cannot supply scientific and logical argument to support it.


Yes we can, I assure you. And again, it has been done and explained. Some of the evidence is fascinating, some of it could swing either way, and some of it makes no sense to me. Unlike many evolutionists, I'm not biased when it comes to the flood evidence presented to me by swallowing everything whole just because it confirms my beliefs. I do my best to examine the evidence in what they are trying to tell me and will not accept their evidence if I do not agree with it or if it does not make sense. Something evolutionists rarely do it seems.

And the rest of your arguments are things that have been asked and answered repeatedly: Dinosaurs, tectonic plates, genetics, flood logistics, etc. Dozens if not hundreds of authors discuss such things.


You have not responded to a number of the most major, unanswerable questions but, based on your other comments, your arguments are based on the usual, provable to be, factually incorrect assumptions and scientific impossibilities that only a person unwilling to accept scientific fact or use logic could accept...


I'm answering most of them but not all of them because some of them are so darn silly (what did Noah do with the poop? Ah ha!), have been answered a zillion times (what about the dinosaurs?), and that is not what the thread was about (Is MIMS a god?).

Where did they put the urine or excrement? Dumped it overboard, probably. The Bible is not going to crumble because we don't know what Noah did with the poop. Genetic problems? Also implied in an answer during the flood account in Genesis. Where did the water come from? All explained in Genesis. You can't miss it. Etc., etc.


In this set up do you know what the killing blow to the debate is? That you would feel a need to debate it.


I don't feel the need, really. Why do you think I've skipped over so much of what you have said since you entered this thread? Because [Again]: Your arguments are silly, they have been answered many times before, and because this isn't my thread to prove my God exists.

But so far you have told me all of the above: Not to bother replying to your arguments, that I can't reply because I don't have the answers, but if I do then it is because my faith is so weak I felt compelled to. It's like they say, "You may be a fundamental atheist if you think a Christian who doesn't answer your question ignores you because they don't know the answer but when they reply it's because they feel threatened."


This is a discussion board, therefore we are discussing. Could I use your same logic and say you feel threatened by trying to dismantle the Bible? Sure, but I won't because I don't care.


Your god created the universe and everything in it from nothing and you feel the need to defend something as miniscule as a flood (without resorting to an explanation including the power of god to “just do it”). As this is the case where did all the water come from originally?


Again you're showing your ignorance of what we believe. It wasn't a simple "rain" for 40 days and 40 nights. It tells us exactly where all the water comes from.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Wait wait wait... (damnit I said I'd gracefully bow out, *holds head low*)

Who tells you that you have free will and then kills your entire civilization and every living thing on your world!? Haha, the all lovvving God does!
Awe...

Btw, big words don't measure intellect, intellect measures the syntax of big words.

Words have no value when not proof/truth evaluable, they are merely fairy tales.

Look what you've started madness
I'm sure it's right where you want it to be



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 

Beyond the special pleading of the other statements.



Btw, big words don't measure intellect, intellect measures the syntax of big words.
Words have no value when not proof/truth evaluable, they are merely fairy tales.


I'm going to assume this attempt at a bail out (for horned) was aimed at me, as stinkingly passive aggressive as it is if you were attempting such.
So........

How beyond not accepting the bill of good atheism tries to shove down my throat day in day out, every bit as annoying as the most zealous Christian that has tried to shove Christianity down my throat. Please note I am not Christian I just respect their right to follow whatever beliefs they want. Which is more than can be said for some people.
Where is your proof other than not accepting atheism do I not have any intellect?
Hmmmmm?

Oh and its worthwhile to note that words are abstract things and can mean whatever people agree to make them mean so that last part is right out.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 

Beyond the special pleading of the other statements.





I'm going to assume this attempt at a bail out (for horned) was aimed at me, as stinkingly passive aggressive as it is if you were attempting such.
So........


Your assumptions would be correct, or you could just be a tad bit self conscious.
Passive agressive is still offensive though, is it not?



How beyond not accepting the bill of good atheism tries to shove down my throat day in day out, every bit as annoying as the most zealous Christian that has tried to shove Christianity down my throat. Please note I am not Christian I just respect their right to follow whatever beliefs they want.


I don't respect their right to follow whatever they want. It's my world too, and people should believe in the truth, and only the truth. Not a delusional mess that constantly causes conflict and war for no good reason. Religion is the root of all Humanities divisions, separation and individualisms up to this point.


Which is more than can be said for some people.
Where is your proof other than not accepting atheism do I not have any intellect?
Hmmmmm?


Well now you're skipping to conclusions that were never there. I never wanted you to accept athiesm. It's just that your stance in this thread is logically flawed but you do use pretty verbiage.


Oh and its worthwhile to note that words are abstract things and can mean whatever people agree to make them mean so that last part is right out.


Yes... and no, that's actually exactly what I said.
The words mean nothing if not truth evaluable. Therefore words have no value if not backed by some form of evidential proof, which they all have, but backed by that form of evidential truth in the context of their use. In this case it's about the history of the universe that is supposed to have happened only here on Earth, where one religion is higher and mightier than others because the all might diety gave its one and only son... but don't forget we're all also children of this diety as well... :rotfl:

Happy Valentines.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


Your assumptions would be correct, or you could just be a tad bit self conscious. Passive agressive is still offensive though, is it not?


It's my experience passive aggressive is the last resort of someone who can't pull off full aggression and the consequences there in.



I don't respect their right to follow whatever they want. It's my world too, and people should believe in the truth, and only the truth.


Rrrrrriiiiiiggggghhhhhhttttt so what you say is right and everyone else must follow because this is your world too. Something childish rings there with a twist of spoiled.
Its also worthwhile to note that your particular ideology is not the first to spout that particular line of rubbish. Early Christianity comes to mind. But you don't stop to think about that.



Not a delusional mess that constantly causes conflict and war for no good reason. Religion is the root of all Humanities divisions, separation and individualisms up to this point.


Ahhhhh so racism isn't about skin color or body configurations being different and people's apparent inability to look beyond that, its about religion. Rrrrriiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttt. Quite a leap you take with just that one alone.
You confuse the symptoms with the disease sir.
And while in a easy world it would be fair to say one thing causes it rather than the race that created it, too bad this world is not a easy world.

The "delusional mess" as you put it is human nature and it infects EVERYTHING we do. Particularly when it is noted from where I am sitting you spout a fair amount of delusion yourself. Not to mention the "this is my world too so they must do what I want them to do" argument.
Which sounds similar to so many other past arguments that were also false.
Heck I think the communists had similar thoughts.

Funny the more I talk to people of your particular ideological stripe the Tool song "The Grudge" comes stronger into mind.


[edit on 14-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
It's my experience passive aggressive is the last resort of someone who can't pull off full aggression and the consequences there in.


Hahaha, is this a form of instigation? I have plenty of resorts, they're endless. Put this new experience in your data-base.


Rrrrrriiiiiiggggghhhhhhttttt so what you say is right and everyone else must follow because this is your world too. Something childish rings there with a twist of spoiled.


Hahaha, well, aren't we all just children of God?



Its also worthwhile to note that your particular ideology is not the first to spout that particular line of rubbish. Early Christianity comes to mind. But you don't stop to think about that.


There's a difference between wanting people to believe in the truth, and wanting people to believe in a mortal man as the all mighty son of an imaginary almighty diety.

Rubbish... one man's garbage is another man's treasure



Ahhhhh so racism isn't about skin color or body configurations being different and people's apparent inability to look beyond that, its about religion. Rrrrriiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttt. Quite a leap you take with just that one alone.


You're exactly right. You should do some research on why slaves were allowed, how slaves came into America and other nations, what role "divine intervention" played in establishing nations and uprooting and blatantly killing the indigenous inhabitants of those lands, and then how that plays into a future of racism after certain peoples are degraded



You confuse the symptoms with the disease sir.


I didn't know we had someone who had all the answers on our hands. Welcome. Maybe you could be so kind as to tell us the symptoms and the diseases, doctor Existence?


And while in an easy world it would be fairly easy to say one thing causes it rather than the race that created it, too bad this world is not an easy world.


I'm sorry you feel that way.


The "delusional mess" as you put it is human nature and it infects EVERYTHING we do. Particularly when it is noted from where I am sitting you spout a fair amount of delusion yourself. Not to mention the "this is my world too so they must do what I want them to do" argument.
Which sounds similar to so many other past arguments that were also false.


Haha. Until you show proof of anything that you say, the use of the word false implemented by you, is false... they do, they will, and they always have done what I wanted them to
And you do what I want you to, too.


Heck I think the communists had similar thoughts.


And your stance is no different
It's only in a relative state. You try to make it appear as if you are allowing others to do as they want and believe in what they want, but you're really not, let's not forget that.


Funny the more I talk to people of your particular ideological stripe the Tool song "The Grudge" comes stronger into mind.


I prefer the song "Echo" by Incubus.



posted on Feb, 14 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 



Hahaha, is this a form of instigation? I have plenty of resorts, they're endless. Put this new experience in your data-base.


Funny it has been so far the same old crap different drone spewing it. When am I going to be impressed?



Hahaha, well, aren't we all just children of God?


When did I say that? And even if I did that is hardly an good excuse for acting like one. Unless you are off course one.



There's a difference between wanting people to believe in the truth, and wanting people to believe in a mortal man as the all mighty son of an imaginary almighty diety.
Rubbish... one man's garbage is another man's treasure


Wanting to believe the truth.......
Hmmmmmm.
I am pretty sure you already think you believe the truth.
Like a gazillion other zealots of every belief.
The simple fact I am having to read these circular not to forget childish rants pretty much proves that.
You just want to force everyone else to believe in your "truth".
Which is where you have no right and are in fact no better than those you hate.



You're exactly right. You should do some research on why slaves were allowed, how slaves came into America and other nations, what role "divine intervention" played in establishing nations and uprooting and blatantly killing the indigenous inhabitants of those lands, and then how that plays into a future of racism after certain peoples are degraded


Ok. Do you even know what divine intervention means?
I talk about racism you bring up slavery. How typical. Can't argue with the fact that racism is a human problem not a religious problem.
Might I also point out slavery isn't a racial thing. Rome was enslaving all races in its day. Of course someone living in America and not able to see beyond the "American Perspective" might think its a phenomenon localised to black people and America. Too bad your false.



I didn't know we had someone who had all the answers on our hands. Welcome. Maybe you could be so kind as to tell us the symptoms and the diseases, doctor Existence?


This is where you prove your trollery right here.
Remember when I said this?


The "delusional mess" as you put it is human nature and it infects EVERYTHING we do. Particularly when it is noted from where I am sitting you spout a fair amount of delusion yourself. Not to mention the "this is my world too so they must do what I want them to do" argument.


If I have to sound it out for you. Forget it. hEh.
Of course its alot better explanation than "It's religion's fault." which would be your somewhat limited view.



Haha. Until you show proof of anything that you say, the use of the word false implemented by you, is false... they do, they will, and they always have done what I wanted them to And you do what I want you to, too.


How old are you? Ten?
Beyond that the proof is well everywhere for anyone who cares to look at humanity or yourself. How is it false pray tell? I know you won't be answering that with anything but some more of your silly childish trolling banter that you have thus far used.



And your stance is no different It's only in a relative state. You try to make it appear as if you are allowing others to do as they want and believe in what they want, but you're really not, let's not forget that.


Once again huh? What color is the sun in your reality?





So care to show any proof beyond childish assertions that what you say is true because you know "the truth" and comments that to any sane mature person sounds as silly as a school yard insult contest?

[edit on 15-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Funny it has been so far the same old crap different drone spewing it. When am I going to be impressed?


Take a look in the mirror



When did I say that? And even if I did that is hardly an good excuse for acting like one. Unless you are of course one.


Who said that you did? Blank point, no reason in replying if only to show you that you're paranoid. There's nothing wrong with children. In fact, I enjoy their company, I'm sorry that you don't.


I am pretty sure you already think you believe the truth.
Like a gazillion other zealots of every belief.


I know the truth, probably one of the few on this planet, whereas you continue to come off as if you think you do



The simple fact I am having to read these circular not to forget childish rants pretty much proves that.


And you are participating, reciprocating no thing to the contraire, thus leading me to logically conclude thatyou are are a cespool of the exact mentioned rant. Going everywhere I lead you and saying everything that I want you to. Observe.


You just want to force everyone else to believe in your "truth".
Which is where you have no right and are in fact no better than those you hate.


Now since you are telling me that I have no right to live my life the way that I want to, are you attempting to force me or others into your subjective truth? And since you are telling me that I am no betteer than those I hate, is that another attempt at forcing your truth onto me? I have not stated that I hate any. You're quietly throwing in false remarks about me to degrade my character; not working... and revealing a lot about yours and your insecurity. Your foundation is trembling at this moment.


Ok. Do you even know what divine intervention means?
I talk about racism you bring up slavery. How typical. Can't argue with the fact that racism is a human problem not a religious problem.


If you're not going to do the research then I'm not willing to comply with coherent deference. You've shown me that you just wish to argue empty statements, not get to the bottom of facts.


Might I also point out slavery isn't a racial thing. Rome was enslaving all races in its day.


And look what happened to Rome. Everything moves in circles. What goes around comes around. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You enslave every race and every race wages war on you. Was there racism is Rome? Yes. Rome had many problems, and most all of them rooting from religion.


Of course someone living in America and not able to see beyond the "American Perspective" might think its a phenomenon localised to black people and America. Too bad your false.


Now you've shown that you hate Americans, and by default anyone living in America does not have any knowledge beyond what you bestow them to. How allowing of you. Surely this is not an attempt to force your truth of Americans on everyone and Americans themselves? You should investigate every entity you come across no matter what their localization is. The fact that you are prejudiced and judgemental of non-existent borders that divide lands and throw a national name on the peoples of those lands shows a lot about your character, again.


This is where you prove your trollery right here.
Remember when I said this?


You're still not showing any facts. Fact, factual, factualistic, proof. Everything is Human nature, everything is universal nature, prove to me why what you say is true, dont just give me a general overview. If you ask my why the sprinter won the race and I tell you it's because electrons revolve around an atom... this is very true, because if they didn't, the race couldn't have been ran as we know it... but it's not explaining what you know I'm inquiring.


How old are you? Ten?


Another attempt to get the upper hand in character, this one through age. What would it matter how old I am? Anyone at any age can come forth with any knowledge because anything is possible.


Beyond that the proof is well everywhere for anyone who cares to look at humanity or yourself. How is it false pray tell? I know you won't be answering that with anything but some more of your silly childish trolling banter that you have thus far used.


Since you already know these things, why should I give you a respectful answer? But here goes... Anger management.


Once again huh? What color is the sun in your reality?


Why are you worried about the color of the sun when the inner workings would not differ. You should focus your efforts into the atoms, molecules, temperatures, etc. The color comment is really a weak argument for relativity.


So care to show any proof beyond childish assertions that what you say is true because you know "the truth" and comments that to any sane mature person sounds as silly as a school yard insult contest?


If I'm a child living in America then how can I ever please you?
I'll leave that up to you sane mature people



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


I dub thee a troll no longer worthy of my attention.
Doesn't mean you win but I am sure you will convince yourself that it means you did. Would expect nothing less from you.
Type out whatever you want to assuage your fragile ego.
Just hope the world has more brains than you to accept more of the same hate
laced bs.

Good day and good luck nursing your grudge.
Perhaps one day you may one day grow to be able to see beyond it.
Because the world need tolerance not your childish approach of "do what I say" with very little proof beyond childish banter.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Amen to that one Wraith! I know I said I 'bowed out' back a few pages ago.

You know what Wraith? Good for YOU hon.

I personally got sick and freakin tired of others 'badgering' and 'baiting' you to defend your position.

They're NOT worth the powder to blow to f'n hell Don't waste your breath any further.

It's NOT worth it hon.

~Ducky~



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Perhaps one day you may one day grow to be able to see beyond it.
Because the world need tolerance not your childish approach of "do what I say" with very little proof beyond childish banter.


Then why can't you be tolerant of me?

The word hypocrite is ringing out... do you hear it?

Now in the quote above you clearly want the world to be exactly as you want it, yet you call for it in the name of tolerance, at least I'm honest when I say I want everyone to live it my way, and that they already do.

You're doing the same thing I'm doing, but playing a wolf in sheep's clothing by pulling the wool of tolerance over you.

I still advocate anger management, at least on your own accord, perhaps meditation or yoga.

It's not about winning or losing for me, just telling the truth and pointing it out. I hope that you can see it, it's clear for anyone paying attention and not emotionally obfuscated.

P.s. I never said I had a grudge, you should be a bit less paranoid about what you think other people mean and feel and you might find some meaning to their actions.

Everyone has an ego and if you think you're going to escape it's just an attempt at your ego to beat itself and who would be the victor of that?

I apologize for being smarter than you; it angers many, I've come to understand this.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 


See what I'm saying ^^^^BAIT

There ya go...

~Ducky~



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
 



Type out whatever you want to assuage your fragile ego.



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