Forgotten Abominations Of The Bible.

Happy New Year To One And All


Here's some more evidence that Christians pick and choose parts of the Bible to fit their own beliefs.(taken from apologeticspress.com.)

Very early in human history, God decreed that murderers were to forfeit their own lives: “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he the man” (Genesis 9:6). This standard continued into the Mosaic period (cf. Numbers 35:33). As a matter of fact, the law God gave to Moses to regulate the Israelite nation made provision for at least sixteen capital crimes. In sixteen instances, the death penalty was to be invoked. The first four may be categorized as pertaining to civil matters.

1. Under the law of Moses, the death penalty was required in cases of premeditated murder (Exodus 21:12-14,22-23; Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:16-21). This regulation even included the situation in which two men might be fighting and, in the process, cause the death of an innocent bystander or her unborn infant. It did not include accidental homicide, which we call “manslaughter.”

2. Kidnapping was a capital crime under the Old Testament (Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 24:7). One movie, which was based on an actual incident, depicted the kidnapping of a seven-year-old boy as he was walking home from school. The man who stole him kept him for some seven years, putting the child through emotional and sexual abuse, before the boy, at age fifteen, was finally returned to his parents. He was a different child, and never again would be the same. God would not tolerate such a thing in the Old Testament, and much of the same would be stopped in America if such crimes were taken more seriously.

3. A person could be put to death for striking or cursing his parents (Exodus 21:15,17; Leviticus 20:9). Jesus alluded to this point in Matthew 15:4.

4. Incorrigible rebelliousness was punishable by death (Deuteronomy 17:12). For example, a stubborn, disobedient, rebellious son who would not submit to parents or civil authorities was to be stoned to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).

The next six capital crimes can be identified as more specifically pertaining to religious matters.

5. Sacrificing to false gods was a capital crime in the Old Testament (Exodus 22:20).

6. Violating the Sabbath brought the death penalty (Exodus 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36).

7. Blasphemy, or cursing God, warranted the death penalty (Leviticus 24:10-16,23).

8. The false prophet, specifically one who tried to entice the people to idolatry, was to be executed (Deuteronomy 13:1-11), as were the people who were so influenced (Deuteronomy 13:12-18).

9. Human sacrifice was a capital crime (Leviticus 20:2). The Israelites were tempted to offer their children to false pagan deities, like Molech. But such was despicable to God.

10. Divination, or the dabbling in the magical arts, was a capital crime. Consequently, under Mosaic law, witches, sorcerers, wizards, mediums, charmers, soothsayers, diviners, spiritists, and enchanters were to be put to death (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 19:26,31; 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:9-14).

The next six crimes pertain to sexual matters.

11. Adultery was punishable by death under the Old Testament (Leviticus 20:10-21; Deuteronomy 22:22). Can you imagine what would happen in our own country if adultery brought the death penalty? Most of Hollywood would be wiped out, as well as a sizeable portion of the rest of our population!

12. Bestiality, i.e., having sexual relations with an animal, was punishable by death (Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 20:15-16).

13. Incest was a capital offense in the Old Testament (Leviticus 18:6-17; 20:11-12,14).

14. Homosexuality was a capital crime (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13).

15. Premarital sex brought the death penalty (Leviticus 21:9; Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

16. Rape of an engaged or married woman was a capital crime in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 22:25-27). Again, imagine what would happen in this country if rape brought the death penalty! Much of the unconscionable treatment of women now taking place would be terminated.

The death penalty was a viable form of punishment for at least sixteen separate offenses. Some people have misunderstood one of the Ten Commandments which says, “You shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13). They have assumed that the law forbade taking human life under any circumstances. But God required the death penalty for some sixteen crimes. Therefore, the commandment would have been better translated, “You shall not murder.” In other words, the command was a prohibition against an individual taking the law into his own hands and exercising personal vengeance. But God wanted the execution of law breakers to be carried out by duly constituted legal authorities.

How much of that sounds completely insane and extreme??

Thats right,nearly all of it!

But it is the Law Of God,if you ignore these Laws how can you say you are a true follower of Jesus and the Words Of God??
Because you're not,no matter what you say,you are not living as your God wants you too!

And saying that these Laws are for Jews only won't work,the Bible is littered with verses saying that these Laws are to be kept for eternity.Not for a while,not for as long as you feel like,but for eternity!
Also,Jesus himself says in several verses that these Laws should be upheld





[edit on 10-1-2008 by jakyll]

As for all of the unclean foods and the touching the dead, that isn't in application anymore, unless you are a very strict Jewish person.

That only applies to the old Abrahamic Covenant. Today, Christians are covered by the new Covenant in Christ, in which such things aren't sins anymore.

These rules were majorly set by God to prevent early peoples from spreading sickness and disease. Today, many Jewish people who still follow the old law are just as obsessive as the Pharisees were back in Jesus' day. (Jesus Himself broke many rules the Pharasees created, in which He healed people on the Sabbath, which was considered work by many...)

Anyway, the Bible shows us that previously unlcean creatures may be consumed in the new covenant (entire passage so people don't say I'm out of context):

1The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3and said, "You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them."

4Peter began and explained everything to them precisely as it had happened: 5"I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles, and birds of the air. 7Then I heard a voice telling me, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.'

8"I replied, 'Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.'

9"The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' 10This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

While still meant as an analogy to describe Gentiles as able to accept Christ too. This can be also taken at face value animal-wise though, considering the culture and the taboo eating such things was during the old law's time. It's God's way of letting the Jews know that Gentiles are acceptible as Christians, and likewise once unclean animals are ok for consumption.


All of you saying that these laws not being followed is ungodly are wrong, within the bounds of the Old Testament. New Testament law still applies, and while the 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament, they are the basic laws you can derive from the New Testament. Jesus saying that the greatest commandment and law is to "love thy neighbor as thyself" sums everything up. If we all love each other as much as ourselves, which is possible through Christ's love, the other laws are already being followed as an obedience to that commandment by Jesus.

Moreover, we Christians don't pick and choose. Firstly, we are to submit to our governering authorities (Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar...), thus many penalties for various crimes go by their rule. At the same time, our souls as Christians are perfected through our unity with the Holy Spirit, but our fleshly bodies are not. They are still sinful in the eyes of God. That is why no man outside of Jesus is perfect. We all have committed sin and fallen short of the glory of God. Even Christians slip up and sin from time to time. The difference between us and non-Christians is that we make the conscious decision the majority of the time to go by God's will for us in doing the right thing rather than our flesh, even though we sometimes in moments of weakness give in to sin.



[edit on 10-1-2008 by joesomebody]

reply to post by jakyll

All points from that quote are moot by this, as the new covenant changed everything. The only example from the New Testament you provided was Matthew 15:4, taken out of context. In context, it is Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for being hypocrites, not saying that that law is still in application.

Furthermore, Jesus' death has nullified the debt to God for all sins for all who trust in Him as Lord and Savior (see John 3:16), meaning that the responsibility and repercussions for ALL sins for Christians are simply those that come from other people.

Matthew 15:

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"

3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

The old laws show us that the wages of sin are truly death. This death isn't only corporial death, but spiritual death, or the total and permanent separation from God in Hell combined with neverending torment by Satan and his demons. This can all be avoided through belief, devotion, and trust in Jesus' sacrifice for all mankind.

I don't see any Pharisees running our world's governments anymore, killing people who break Mosaic Covenant law...do you?

As for translations/versions of the Bible, no one version or translation (especially versions, which are summarized or rephrased versions of direct translations) can fully capture the complexities of the Hebrew, Aramaic (very small portion of the Bible), and Greek languages. Get yourself a lexicon to match your Bible (specific versions), and you will have much better understandings of all verses, as the lexicon exhaustively lists the proper old language word for each English/whatever other modern language word and gives the meaning of the old world meaning from that time...catch what I mean there?

The sins haven't changed, but the laws and penalties have, as the old Abrahamic Covenant no longer applies.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by joesomebody]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by joesomebody]

Finally, the penalties from the old laws don't apply to Christians, as God's wrath is satisfied. The people who never accept Christ while on this mortal plain aren't so lucky. God's wrath is already outpoured now for those who aren't Christians. Those who become Christians are finally removed from the following forms of wrath listed in Romans 1, which also mentions that homosexuality is a sin...it also mentions pretty much every other sin, and the last line is a kicker too! Note that all sin is forgivable, people, if you believe in Christ!

Oh...and God doesn't hate the humans who sin...He actually loves us all. He hates sin itself. God doesn't hate gays, or murderers, or anyone else. God is perfect though, and that is why those who don't have their sins atoned for in Christ must go to Hell. God's perfection is ultimate, and thus sin can not be in His presence. When one of God's children goes to Hell, it hurts and grieves Him greatly.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Mods: sorry about my filling of three posts...I'll refrain from discussion in this thread until I receive reply.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by joesomebody]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by joesomebody]

The law covenant was not given to All people. It was given to the Israelites alone.
This is made clear in Deuteronomy 5:1-3 & Psalm 147:19-20

(Psalm 147:19-20) 19 He is telling his word to Jacob, His regulations and his judicial decisions to Israel. 20 He has not done that way to any other nation; And as for [his] judicial decisions, they have not known them. Praise Jah, YOU people!

So what then was the purpose of the over 600 laws making up the Law Covenant?
Smply this: Paul answered: “To make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made . . . Consequently the Law has become our tutor [or, teacher] leading to Christ.” (Galatians 3:19-24)
Therefore, the special purpose of the Law was to protect and guide the nation of Israel so that they might be ready to accept Christ when he arrived. The many sacrifices required by the Law reminded the Israelites that they were sinners who needed a Savior.—Hebrews 10:1-4.

So when Christ came and gave his perfect life as a sacrifice, what happened to the Law? It was removed.

“We are no longer under a tutor,” Paul explained. (Galatians 3:25)

The removal of the Law was a relief to the Israelites. It had shown them up as sinners, for all of them fell short of keeping that Law perfectly.

“Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law,” Paul said. (Galatians 3:10-14)

So the Bible also says: “Christ is the end of the Law.”—Romans 10:4; 6:14.

It makes no sinse therefore to accuse Christians of picking and choosing which laws to keep or enforce. Today there is no Theocratic Government with an earthly king or representitive authorized by God to enforce any such regulations.

That is why we are instructed not to judge our fellow man, all judgement is left in the capable hands of Jesus Christ, the exalted King of Gods Kingdom. He is the one that will ultimately judge all mankind.

The law is obsolete for all of mankind, including the Jews.



[edit on 11-1-2008 by Sparky63]

When logic is applied, homosexuality ,in my opinion, goes directly against nature. If everyone was heterosexual, there would be little effect to the world. If everyone was homosexual our species would disappear. I believe it is an abomination just as the bible states.......

The Commandments were given to Moses by God for the people of Israel,Jesus reinforced them because he himself was Jewish.If the Commandments and Laws stand then so does the punishment for committing them.
Paul himself,in the NT states that he is willing to die if he trangresses the Laws of God and commits a sin.

Some Christians believe that capital punishment does not apply to the New Testament and church age.First we must acknowledge that God gave the principle of capital punishment even before the institution of the Old Testament law code. In Genesis 9:6 we read that "Whoever sheds man's blood by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God, He made man." Capital punishment was instituted by God because humans are created in the image of God. The principle is not rooted in the Old Testament theocracy, but rather in the creation order. It is a much broader biblical principle that carries into the New Testament.

Even so, some Christians argue that in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus seems to be arguing against capital punishment. But is He?

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus is not arguing against the principle of a life for a life. Rather He is speaking to the issue of our personal desire for vengeance. He is not denying the power and responsibility of the government. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus is speaking to individual Christians. He is telling Christians that they should not try to replace the power of the government. Jesus does not deny the power and authority of government, but rather He calls individual Christians to love their enemies and turn the other cheek.

Some have said that Jesus set aside capital punishment in John 8 when He did not call for the woman caught in adultery to be stoned. But remember the context. The Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus between the Roman law and the Mosaic law. If He said that they should stone her, He would break the Roman law. If He refused to allow them to stone her, He would break the Mosaic law (Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22). Jesus' answer avoided the conflict: He said that he who was without sin should cast the first stone. Since He did teach that a stone be thrown (John 8:7), this is not an abolition of the death penalty.

In other places in the New Testament we see the principle of capital punishment being reinforced. Romans 13:1-7, for example, teaches that human government is ordained by God and that the civil magistrate is a minister of God. We are to obey government for we are taught that government does not bear the sword in vain. The fact that the Apostle Paul used the image of the sword further supports the idea that capital punishment was to be used by government in the New Testament age as well. Rather than abolish the idea of the death penalty, Paul uses the emblem of the Roman sword to reinforce the idea of capital punishment. The New Testament did not abolish the death penalty; it reinforced the principle of capital punishment.

I found this site kinda interesting too,though i don't agree with all interpretations within it.


[edit on 11-1-2008 by jakyll]

The frequently used synonym, sodomy, comes from the apparent homosexual activity among men of Sodom (Genesis 19), and the severity of strictures set forth in the Holiness Code, with nothing short of the death penalty being imposed, suggested that the need for discipline must have been great, (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13). The Old Testament understood normal sexual intercourse as not only a way of expressing a loving relationship, but also as a divinely appointed way of procreating new life.

In the New Testament, St. Paul condemns male prostitutes and homosexuals (I Corinthians 6:9-11). In the first chapter of his epistle to the Romans (Romans 1:24-32), he also judges it as unnatural. Homosexuals are included elsewhere among the immoral persons who, St. Paul says, deserve judgement by God (I Timothy 1:10). There is no example in all of the New Testament of approval, acceptance, or even tolerance of homosexuality.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

reply to post by joesomebody

Note that all sin is forgivable, people, if you believe in Christ!

Yet for the millions of homosexuals who believe in Jesus,their sin is not treated as such.What they do,in the eyes of many,is unforgivable.For some Christians being gay is the worst of all the sins,they will happily embrace other sinners who have repented,but not gays.Why is that?

I've asked many people this question;if a person lives a good life,hurts no one,helps everyone,spreads the words and love of Jesus,but they just happen to be gay;will God really turn them away form Heaven on the Day of Judgement?

I've also found it curious that,as homosexuality is such a great sin,why is Jesus so silent on the matter?
In Matthew 19:16-21,when asked by a man how he could obtain eternal life,Jesus replies that he should keep the Commandments and sell all his belongings,he makes no mention of not committing "unnatural acts."
Why is it not mentioned? I guess because this awful crime is not actually a part of Moses' 10 Commandments.But it is part of the 613 Mitzvot....yet those are laws just for those of the Jewish faith only so they should have no bearing on Christianity....


I don't mind how many times you post mate,i found what you said interesting

Originally posted by jakyll

In Matthew 19:16-21,when asked by a man how he could obtain eternal life,Jesus replies that he should keep the Commandments and sell all his belongings,he makes no mention of not committing "unnatural acts."
Why is it not mentioned?

I think if you read the whole account, Jesus was telling him what HE needed to do. Jesus gave this man Very specific instructions. Jesus had already ascertained that this man had a deep respect for the law and was following it scrupulously.

However this man, described as a young ruler, had a problem with materialism, a love of riches. Jesus was able to get right to the root of his particular problem or weakness.

By identifying this young mans weakness Jesus showed him that he needed to remove this stumbling block from before him. The young man therefore passed on the wonderful opportunity to be one of Christs disciples because he would not let go of his material possessions.

If the man had been a homosexual, no doubt Jesus would have instructed him to quit this practice. I don't think that one should conclude that Jesus would condone homosexuality based on this account. Thats quite a stretch.

reply to post by Sparky63

If the man had been a homosexual, no doubt Jesus would have instructed him to quit this practice. I don't think that one should conclude that Jesus would condone homosexuality based on this account. Thats quite a stretch.

I'm not looking for something that shows Jesus condones homosexuality.It was just the 1st verse i could think of to try and explain my point.
God and Paul condemn homosexuality,not God and Jesus.You cannot be all forgiving and a lover of peace and kindness if you condemn something (not just being gay.) in such a vitriolic manner as God and Paul do.(thats if there words are really theirs,as we all know that man has made translation mistakes and deliberatly changed the words.)

God doesn't hate gay people. Infact there's evidence that Jesus himself was bi or maybe gay. Homosexuality was around back then, yet Jesus never said anything about it.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

I don't know where people get the idea that God is All-Forgiving.

It is true that He is described as "Ready to Forgive." after all He is aware of our limitations.

“He himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust,” says Psalm 103:14.

He does not forget that we are creatures of dust, having frailties, or weaknesses, as a result of imperfection.

God also recognizes & understands how powerful sin is. His Word describes sin as a potent force that has man in its deadly grip. Just how strong is sin’s hold? In the book of Romans, the apostle Paul explains: We are “under sin,” as soldiers are under their commander (Romans 3:9); sin has “ruled” over mankind like a king (Romans 5:21); it “resides,” or is “dwelling,” within us (Romans 7:17, 20); its “law” is continually at work in us, in effect trying to control our course. (Romans 7:23, 25)

Hence, He knows that perfect obedience is not possible for us, no matter how earnestly we may yearn to give it to him. He lovingly assures us that when we seek his mercy with a contrite heart, he will extend forgiveness.

Psalm 51:17 says:

“The sacrifices to God are a broken spirit; a heart broken and crushed, O God, you will not despise.” God will never reject, or turn away, a heart that is “broken and crushed” by the burden of guilt.

So, should one conclude that we can presume on God’s mercy, using our sinful nature as an excuse to sin? Certainly not!

God is not guided by mere sentiment. His mercy has limits. He will by no means forgive those who hardheartedly practice willful sin, not showing any repentance.
Hebrews 10:26 is the KEY scripture that applies to His extension of forgiveness:

(Hebrews 10:26) 26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,

This is where Repentance comes into play. Repentance is not just acknowledging that something we did or are doing is wrong.

According to Webster, to repent means “to change one’s mind or one’s heart with regard to past or intended action, conduct, etc., on account of regret or dissatisfaction.” It means “to feel regret, contrition or compunction for what one has done or omitted to do.” Repentance goes farther than penitence, we are told, in that it emphasizes the element of new purpose; it involves making a distinct about-face.

If we do that, Then we can count on Gods forgiveness.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Sparky63]

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Sparky63]

I'd forgive anyone and do you think I am more good, understanding and loving then God?

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Mark 10:18

Am I more good then God?

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

Originally posted by Shawn B.
I'd forgive anyone and do you think I am more good, understanding and loving then God?

Am I more good then God?

That is why God does not leave it up to imperfect men to judge matters like this.
His forgiveness is always in perfect balance with His other attributes of Love, Justice & Wisdom. In like manner Jesus is capable of reading peoples hearts and determining their true intentions.

Forgiving without true repentance is what imperfect men do...not God.

Originally posted by Sparky63


That is why God does not leave it up to imperfect men to judge matters like this.
His forgiveness is always in perfect balance with His other attributes of Love, Justice & Wisdom. In like manner Jesus is capable of reading peoples hearts and determining their true intentions.

Forgiving without true repentance is what imperfect men do...not God.

Your just a person too saying that, what makes your opinion more valid?

Originally posted by Shawn B.

Your just a person too saying that, what makes your opinion more valid?

The only thing that might give validity to what I posted was that it is firmly supported by the scriptures. I believe I thoroughly researched the subject as it pertains to what the Bible has to say about the matter, after all, it is the Bibles & by association, Gods view that is being discussed in this thread.

There is no ambiguity in the clear meaning behind the passages I used.
You, of course are free to accept it or reject it. That is your prerogative.

If you think I have misrepresented the scriptures or misapplied them in any way please share your research on the subject.

Thanks

reply to post by Sparky63

I don't know where people get the idea that God is All-Forgiving.

Well,i was raised in the Catholic faith and its what i was taught.
Plus,if God can sacrafice his only son to save mankind from sin,then it makes sence that if people repent he will forgive all.

Some scriptures can be interpreted as such as well.(4 example.)
Hebrew 8:12./Isaiah 43:25./Psalms 85:2-3./Jeremiah 33:8.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Sparky63

 

I don't know where people get the idea that God is All-Forgiving.

Well,i was raised in the Catholic faith and its what i was taught.
Plus,if God can sacrafice his only son to save mankind from sin,then it makes sence that if people repent he will forgive all.

That is correct. And is confirmed in New Testament very well.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

Here is a hard pill to swallow:

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: ...