Forgotten Abominations Of The Bible.

Those ‘practicing sin willfully’ after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth have gone beyond the point of repentance, for they have rejected the very purpose for which God’s Son died and so have joined the ranks of those who sentenced him to death, in effect, ‘impaling the Son of God afresh for themselves and exposing him to public shame.’

this is very clear in Heb 6:4-8 & 10:26-29

(Hebrews 6:4-8) 4 For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame. 7 For example, the ground that drinks in the rain which often comes upon it, and that then brings forth vegetation suitable to those for whom it is also cultivated, receives in return a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected and is near to being cursed; and it ends up with being burned.

26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?

These passags in the New Testament make it clear that some sins are unforgivable.

An example of some whose sins would not be forgiven is the Pharasees that Jesus condemned.

(Matthew 23:29-33) 29 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU build the graves of the prophets and decorate the memorial tombs of the righteous ones, 30 and YOU say, ‘If we were in the days of our forefathers, we would not be sharers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Therefore YOU are bearing witness against yourselves that YOU are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Well, then, fill up the measure of YOUR forefathers. 33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen′na?

It is clear that their sins would not be forgiven.

Once again though, Repentance is still the key. The Pharisees Jesus condemned were not repentant. Had they been, Forgiveness may have ben extended.

reply to post by Sparky63

Once again though, Repentance is still the key. The Pharisees Jesus condemned were not repentant. Had they been, Forgiveness may have ben extended.

I did say those who repented would have all forgiven.

But how can you repent for something that is,for lack of another way to describe it at this moment in time,in your genetic make-up???

There were some Christians in the first Century who had previously done terrible things, but because they were repentant, they were forgiven.
Please consider:

(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

They key phrase here is "WERE" in verse 11. They recognized the error of their ways and stopped doing the things mentioned in Verse 9 & 10.

The Apostle Paul took part in the Stoning of Stephen, approving of it, & yet he was forgiven.
That is why I say repentance is the key.

Originally posted by jakyll

I did say those who repented would have all forgiven.

I agree with you.

But how can you repent for something that is,for lack of another way to describe it at this moment in time,in your genetic make-up???

I am heterosexual, my genetic makeup makes me want to have sex with women. Yes, even women I am not married to. I don't though because I know it is wrong. People do not have to be slaves to their fleshly desires.

The apostle Peter, in similar vein, admonishes Christians to “keep abstaining from fleshly desires, which are the very ones that carry on a conflict against the soul.” (1Pe 2:11) James the half brother of Jesus concurs, speaking of “cravings for sensual pleasure that carry on a conflict in your members.” (Jas 4:1) One must recognize these things as enemies in order to stand firm against them.

reply to post by Sparky63

I am heterosexual, my genetic makeup makes me want to have sex with women. Yes, even women I am not married to. I don't though because I know it is wrong. People do not have to be slaves to their fleshly desires.

But you would be forgiven if you had sex with dozens of women,had an affair or sex before marriage.If you saw a woman and said to yourself,"she's attractive" you would be forgiven.You are not repenting your hetrosexuality!

I,in the similar situation,would not be forgiven.I would have to repent for everything and abstain from any meaningful relationship for the rest of my life in order to be totally forgiven.


If you have sex with 1 woman in,say 6months,are you a slave to your fleshy desires? No!

If you get married (stay committed to) and have sex with only your wife (partner) for the rest of your life are you a slave to your fleshy desires? No.

If you had sex with 10 women in 1 week would you be a slave to your fleshy desires? Yes.


Now,in the situations in questions 1 & 2 how would i be a slave to fleshy desires? Thats right,the Bible says its a Sin....


I am not in conflict with my soul,neither are the vast majority of homosexuals.

It is still preached in parts of the world that gay people are naturally unhappy...Bulls**t!!
Thats just a delusion some religious folk have told themselves because they can't handle the fact that the truth is the exact opposite.






[edit on 16-1-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by jakyll

But you would be forgiven if you had sex with dozens of women,had an affair or sex before marriage.If you saw a woman and said to yourself,"she's attractive" you would be forgiven.You are not repenting your hetrosexuality!

True.. I am not repenting of my heterosexuality. It is not the heterosexuality that is the sin. This sin is acting on my fleshly desires and breaking Gods laws. I would only be forgiven if I was repentant.
IF I continued to have break Gods law, after knowing it was wrong, it would demonstrate a callous disrespect for his Soverignty and righteous standards. I could not then expect forgiveness.

I,in the similar situation,would not be forgiven.I would have to repent for everything and abstain from any meaningful relationship for the rest of my life in order to be totally forgiven.

You would have to acknowlege that your desires were wrong and that acting on them would make one unclean in Gods eyes.

The Apostle Paul made a conscience decision to remain single for the sake of the Ministry. HE was a normal man with normal desires. He describes himself struggling with fleshly desires. Yet he maintained a course of life that was honorable in Gods eyes.

If you had sex with 10 women in 1 week would you be a slave to your fleshy desires? Yes.

YEs, but I would go further and say that if you had sex with 1 woman who was not your wife, you were a slave to fleshly desires.

Now,in the situations in questions 1 & 2 how would i be a slave to fleshy desires? Thats right,the Bible says its a Sin....

True, there is no getting around that.

I am not in conflict with my soul,neither are the vast majority of homosexuals.

You may be happy with your choice, but that is not really the question is it. The real question is, "Is God happy with your choice?"

That is something you have to determine for yourself. In the end it doesn't matter what I think or what anyone else thinks. It only matters what God thinks about the matter.

No doubt Adam & Eve thought that the decision they made in the Garden, to break Gods law, was the correct one for them,.. They were wrong and had to pay the consequences.

It is still preached in parts of the world that gay people are naturally unhappy...Bulls**t!!
Thats just a delusion some religious folk have told themselves because they can't handle the fact that the truth is the exact opposite.

I agree with you that many homosexuals are happy with the choices they made.

There are also many who are not.

It would be interesting to see if any surveys or studies have been done to compare the suicide rate between Heterosexuals & homosexuals. I will look for one.

I sincerely doubt that I will be able to find a study that all can agree is valid. Many of the ones I found were either by religious groups or Pro-gay groups pushing their own agendas and slanting the stats to suit their ideology.

I'll keep lookingg though.

Originally posted by zysin5
reply to post by whitewave

 

The mod didn't say you were going to hell or that you were going to burn forever. YOU said that.

You are right.. I said that he said that without saying it..
IF you say you have sinned, then to me thats saying.. You sin and you go to hell.. Becasue I dont buy Jesus.. Nor will I ever let that SOB into my heart!! No way.. So by omission Im going to hell in there eyes..


[edit on 9-11-2007 by zysin5]

Sinning doesn't mean you are going to hell. Everyone sins. I would be more inclined to wince at the "never gonna let that SOB in my heart" than being gay.

God doesn't desert people because they sin. Sometimes people desert him because they don't want to listen.

I dunno. It isn't up to me to judge anyone. I have enough flaws of my own to worry about

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by jakyll
Just joking.I get sick of Christians (not all of them obviously) and their Holier Than thou attitude sometimes.I also hate the fact that they quote Jesus and his teachings of "love thy neighbour","turn the other cheek" and all that,,but will then stand outside a gay club hurling threats and abuse at people who have done them no harm whatsoever!!

No doubt homosexuality is a sin but those people you speak of are far from acting like Christians.

Actually yes... Doubt that homosexuality is a sin. Because its not.

reply to post by Sparky63


Do you not find it curious that homosexuality is a sin,an abomination?

I do.
To me sin is knowing/understanding right but choosing/doing wrong.
For example;lying,stealing,killing,swearing etc.

But being gay is not a choice so its not as if we are deliberatly sinning.
God must know this,it is man who has misunderstood homosexuality;its a disease,its catching,its a mental illness,its a choice etc.

Every sin and abomination in the Bible comes down to choice,except this.

reply to post by llpoolej

Sinning doesn't mean you are going to hell.

I guess that comes down to which Christian faith you follow.(4 example.)
Catholics say all sinners will go to Hell and will suffer eternal punishment.
Mormons say that their will be a 1000yrs of peace after the 2nd comming and all sinners will have a chance to convert.When that time is up and you have denied salvation,then you go to Hell.

Originally posted by jakyll


Do you not find it curious that homosexuality is a sin,an abomination?

I do.
To me sin is knowing/understanding right but choosing/doing wrong.
For example;lying,stealing,killing,swearing etc.

No, Sin is not just choosing to do wrong. The common Hebrew term translated “sin” is chat·ta’th′; in Greek the usual word is ha·mar·ti′a. In both languages the verb forms (Heb., cha·ta’′; Gr., ha·mar·ta′no) mean “miss,” in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point.

So Sin really is anything not in harmony with, hence contrary to, God’s personality, standards, ways, and will; anything marring one’s relationship with God. It may be in word , in deed (doing wrong acts) or failing to do what should be done, or in mind or heart attitude. So all are gujilty of Sin because we all fall short of the mark of perfection.

There is a difference from inherited sin & willful sinning, just as there is a difference between wickedness & weakness. We are all born with inherited sin. We can do nothing about that except continue to pray and ask for Gods forgiveness. We can avoid willful sinning though if we have a strong enough desire to do so.

But being gay is not a choice so its not as if we are deliberatly sinning.

Regardless of the cause, the important thing to realize is that the Bible condemns homosexual acts. Thus, the person who is struggling with same-sex desires is presented with a reachable goal—he or she can choose not to act on those desires.

To illustrate: A person might be “disposed to rage.” (Proverbs 29:22) In the past he may have freely given in to fits of anger. After studying the Bible, though, he becomes aware of the need to develop self-control. Does this mean that he will never again feel anger welling up inside him?

No. However, because he knows what the Bible says about uncontrolled anger, he refuses to succumb to his feelings.

It is similar with a person who has felt attracted to others of the same sex but who has now come to learn what the Bible says about homosexual practices. On occasion, an improper desire may still present itself. Nevertheless, by heeding the counsel of the Bible, the person can refrain from acting on that desire.

Ultimately, you are in control of how you will live.

(Romans 12:1-2) 12 Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. . .

And despite claims to the contrary, people can learn to control their impulses—or at least refrain from acting on them.


[edit on 16-1-2008 by Sparky63]

Sin is irrelevant, it does not exist as surely as god does not exist.

Love is the law, do what thou wilt.

All children are homosexual until they discover their sexual desires for the opposite sex.

Never heard that "Girls/boy have cooties"?
Yeah that gayness in action.

I'm not making this up, its been written about many times in child psychology.

If anything religious types are totally gay for their god.
He's a man and they love him and want to spend eternity with him.
If that is not a homosexual thing for a man to want and desire then nothing else is.

The cross? A phallic symbol.
Check out some Catholic altar tools, phallic.

Then there are priests, not even man enough to have consensual sex with an adult.
They have to rape children and nuns. 40% of nuns have been victims of sexual assault, mostly at the hands of clergy. 20,000 cases of child molestation brought against clergy in 20 years.

Those people who are screaming "god hates fags" are closet gays, think about
what they are obsessing about? Men and other men.
I doubt actively gay men obsess so much about it.

reply to post by Sparky63

Regardless of the cause, the important thing to realize is that the Bible condemns homosexual acts. Thus, the person who is struggling with same-sex desires is presented with a reachable goal—he or she can choose not to act on those desires.

But you don't have to commit the act to be condemned,homosexuality isn't just about the physical.
If i don't have sex again and i don't think about,i am still a lesbian.My desire,my attraction is still to women.
Like your analogy on anger,i can control my physical urges,but i am still a lesbian.A person with an anger problem who fixes it,ceases to be an angry person so the 2 can not be compared.

I know the Bible talks mainly of the "act" but what does that mean?
Penetration? Kissing? Holding hands? Verbal exchange of love & Emotions?


I still have a strong belief that there has been some mistranslation concerning this topic.

(an example)

There are two Hebrew words which are often associated with homosexual passages and which are mistranslated in many English versions of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament):

qadesh means a male prostitute who engaged in ritual sex in a Pagan temple . This was a common profession both in ancient Israel and in the surrounding countries. it is often mistranslated simply as "sodomite" or "homosexual." (e.g. the King James Version of the Bible, Deuteronomy 23:17). The companion word quedeshaw means female temple prostitute. It is frequently mistranslated simply as "whore" or "prostitute." A qadesh and quedeshaw were not simply prostitutes. They had a specific role to play in the temple. They represented a God and Goddess, and engaged in sexual intercourse in that capacity with members of the temple.

to'ebah means a condemned, foreign, Pagan, religious, cult practice, but often simply translated as "abomination." Eating food which contains both meat and dairy products is "to'ebah" A Jew eating with an Egyptian was "to'ebah." A Jew wearing a polyester-cotton garment would be "to'ebah."

Rabbi Gershon Caudill wrote:
"Like all indigenous peoples, the Jews were not overly concerned about male homosexuality, where two men lived together in a monogamous, sexual relationship. As a rule, it did not get any notice....The Talmud does not record a single instance of a person being brought before the Sanhedrin on the charge of homosexual activity."

It was only a millennium after the Torah was written that the Talmud makes its first reference to homosexuality as a perversion. This occurred during the time when the Hebrews were being influenced by Greek culture -- one which accepted homosexual behavior.

2 books that are definatly worth reading are,
Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality by John Boswell
and
A Question of Truth: Christianity and Homosexuality by Gareth Moore.

This link will give you a preview.
[img]http://books.google.co.uk/books?q=christianity+and+homosexuality&source=citation&ots=5hmXaDZrkk&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=bottom-3results&hl=en[ /img]

Originally posted by jakyll

But you don't have to commit the act to be condemned,homosexuality isn't just about the physical.

I would agree with you on this point. An Alchoholic who swears off alchohol and never takes another drink would still call himself an alchoholic. His desire to imbibe may still be there, in fact he may have to abstain from alchohol for the rest of hs life. He cannot be condemned for still craving it. After some time has passed his craving may lessen or go away completely. Or maybe not. Depends on the person.

If i don't have sex again and i don't think about,i am still a lesbian.My desire,my attraction is still to women.

How you choose to classify yourself or identify yourself to others is up to you. Just because society. especially the gay & lesbian culture has embraced the notion that people cannot change does not make it so, I know former homosexuals & lesbians who have rejected that lifestyle. Not to say that it is easy, for some it is a real struggle.

Now some may say that once gay always gay, but I don't think that generality applies to everyone.

You know if that list of food we cant eat is real which it isnt in the king james version. But since you are showing it that means we are all going to basiclly starve to death are we not.

Hilda

Originally posted by hildar
You know if that list of food we cant eat is real which it isnt in the king james version. But since you are showing it that means we are all going to basiclly starve to death are we not.

Hilda

Wow, that went right over my head. I reread it several times but I'm afraid I don't understand what you are talking about. What list of foods are you referring to? I don't recall anyone posting anything on this thread about a list of foods. But maybe I missed it. Please elaborate.

reply to post by Sparky63


4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.
28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.
29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,
30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.
31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.
32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.

Exactly what here is left for beasts on the earth for us to eat??Not a gosh darn thing at all other then fish. If its unclean then we cant eat it. Fish is all we can eat but then we would all die soon enough, sorry but there isnt enough fish in the sea to feed all of man.

Hilda

Homosexuality is a sin, its falls under fornication/adultery as having sex outside the bonds of marriage. The marriage contract is expressly mentioned in the Bible repeatedly as being between man and woman for the purpose of being “fruitful and multiplying”. If the relationship cannot create offspring, then it is not a marriage in the eyes of God. We have been through this same argument many times over and again on this site, I don’t know why it keeps coming up.

As to the other things that they OP listed, most of them are Jewish laws, they are not the laws of God. Adultery is specifically mentioned in the Ten Commandments, so is bearing false witness. Bearing false witness is not simply lying though, its lying for the detriment of your neighbor. There are specific verses in the Bible were people lied to protect another person and God commended them for doing it. The cleanliness laws are only specifically mentioned in relation to the Jewish people, which is also expressly explained in the bible. Many of the Cleanliness laws state ‘do this as a sign between me and my people’, meaning the Jews.

reply to post by hildar


I don't want to get into this too much because I'm not Jewish but this might help. The KJV (it looks like you used this version judging by your quote) is an almost 400 year old translation. Not that it is a "bad" translation- just antiquated. Common sense tells us the study of linguistics has come a long way in 400 years and that we can now more accurately translate from the Original Hebrew. If you read a more accurate translation with the help of Hebrew lexicons (I'll assume you don't speak Hebrew), the dietary laws aren't quite so rigid as the KJV makes it seem. Remember, they can still eat lamb, cows, chickens, fish, vegetables, fruits, etc.

Regardless, unless you're an Orthodox Jew, the kosher diet really isn't even an issue (I don't know your faith so I'm only assuming). Christians do not have clean and unclean foods and do not live under the Old Testament dietary laws as we are told all foods were declared clean in the New Testament.

[edit on 1/18/2008 by AshleyD]