A contradiction in the bible, page 29

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reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 03:52 PM by jmdewey60

reply to post by helen670

Examples of what the trinity...In the Old Testament.

Thanks for the effort, but I do not need to be convinced.
I am trying to say that history is written by the winners.
If you did not know better, from the way people talk, you would think that Arius did not believe in the trinity.
That may seem odd, didn't he question the trinity?
No, he was just going about his business of being the Teacher to the Christians of Alexandria. What happened was these people from other places came over and decided it did not go, word for word, with what they were teaching. They did not like that someone could be allowed to say something that disagreed with them.
The real trouble makers were outsiders. Well once it came out, that these foreigners were trying to get rid of Arius, it became a public debate and the powers that be had to stomp it out, since according to them, only the clergy should be allowed to discuss such things.
What started it was the mistake of teaching from the Bible, instead of a book from an approved author. The Bible says Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. Oops, should not have said that!
The outcome of the whole Nicea thing was proof, or in the absence of proof, authority to enforce it as truth, a very scientific sounding explanation of how Jesus could never have been begotten. To say so is blasphemy, according to this.
You may be completely unaware of this because they give you a nice Athanasian creed to subscribe to that has the word begotten in it, but it is qualified to the point of being completely meaningless. The Father and the Son are co-eternal, meaning one never existed without the other. They are coequal, meaning one is not inferior to the other. They are of the same substance.
Anyway, not really trying to make a debate about all that, right now, but pointing out how it happened. Wouldn't it be nice if you could believe in the trinity the way you want. Not to the control freaks. Just say the words we give you to say and never question anything.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 04:37 PM by spy66

I have been thinking a bit about Abraham and the 12 tribes of Israel. Isak's 12 sons?

I have some questions about this part?

In revelations. John mentions the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus and the 144 000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus and the 144 000 will rule from the city of Jerusalem in this time frame.

My first question is:

Why is Abraham's 12 tribes of Israel really mentioned in revelations?

Its not the 12 tribes of Israel that will be among the 144 000 kings to rule the 1000 years kingdom with Jesus from Jerusalem?

Now this might not be a contradiction in the Bible but a contradiction in my interpretation.

Levi the tribe who had the high priests dont exist anymore to day?

Levi was one of the 12 tribes that was in charge of preforming the Easter sacrifice of the lamb once a year. On the 14 of April. This date has a different name in Hebrew?

I guess Levi and the 12 tribes also was in charge of getting Jesus crucified the same day. The 14 of April?

But that night when Jesus and his disciples celebrated the Easter sacrifice. Jesus made a new pact with his disciples?

And this new pact don't have anything to do with the 12 tribes of Abraham/Isak?

Jesus made new laws for us to obey?
New conditions for us to be saved?? The old laws don't apply anymore?

Now why would John who lived after Jesus was dead write about the 12 tribes of Israel?

He should of known about the new conditions for us been saved?
1. Love your neighbor like you love your self and so on.
2. Jesus sacrificed his blood for our sins. He demands that we do the same for our love for him and our next of kind.

NB. this is not right of the text

These are the new laws for becoming one of the 144 000??
I think there is scripture that actually talks about this in the Bible?

...................................

Next question:

Jesus and the 144 000 Kings are to rule the earth from Jerusalem?

Is Jerusalem the city of Israel or is it a city in heaven?
I know Jerusalem is also mentioned as a place in heaven in the Bible.

Which is it that Jesus and the 144 000 kings will rule from. Heaven or Earth?

.....................................................

New question:

I know the Bible talks about two types of tribes. The small tribe: The 144 000. And the large tribe?
I think the large tribe are the people clothed in white robes mentioned in the bible. This is included the once resurrected from the dead??

Now this has something to do with the question above. The 144 000 kings and Jesus needs some one to be Kings over? Right!!!

My question is:

What is the true interpretation of that event??

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 05:15 PM by helen670

reply to post by spy66

Hi spy/

do a search(grey box) 'top right hand corner' of this page.
type in 12 tribes or similar...there are a few threads posted on the subject.

As for Revelation and its meaning...
do the same search as above in the Search box...many on this subject as well.

helen

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 05:29 PM by jmdewey60

reply to post by spy66

I am looking at the twelve tribe thing. I have to think the number twelve comes from the number of territories in the land that got moved into under Aaron and later.
In revelation, it is symbolic that there remains an inheritance, even if Earth is currently in a state of destruction. Jerusalem is built in heaven and eventually comes back down to Earth. For some reason, the Earth can not be restored until the people are there first.
The kings may be symbolic too, but I have to think all this symbolism is not there just for looks. The Earth may well be divided up to different inheritances. Not the exact term because there is no death in the new world.
My guess is that once sin is done away with, we will be allowed to inhabit other planets.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 06:13 PM by spy66

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by spy66

I am looking at the twelve tribe thing. I have to think the number twelve comes from the number of territories in the land that got moved into under Aaron and later.
In revelation, it is symbolic that there remains an inheritance, even if Earth is currently in a state of destruction. Jerusalem is built in heaven and eventually comes back down to Earth. For some reason, the Earth can not be restored until the people are there first.
The kings may be symbolic to, but I have to think all this symbolism is not there just for looks. The Earth may well be divided up to different inheritances. Not the exact term because there is no death in the new world.
My guess is that once sin is done away with, we will be allowed to inhabit other planets.

Great because i am looking into this as well right now

I have a comment though to what you say here?

First i must tell you how i interpret this 1000 year kingdom.

As you say Jerusalem is a place made in heaven. I to believe that this is what the Bible is saying.
Jerusalem does not come down to earth before after the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus and his 144 000 chosen once have finished the time lap of a 1000 years.
Now i wonder is Jesus and the 144 000 going to rule over the resurrected and the once alive from "heaven"?
That sort off makes a lot of sense??? Right?

First Jesus comes down to defeat the Antichrist and the false profit. When this is done the 1000 years of peace will begin?

The judgment day has not started yet?

In the 1000 year period of peace the dead will be resurrected and the 144 000 will be chosen. Those are the once who sacrificed them self for Jesus and his name?

I read that as been Jesus disciples +++ the once who sacrificed their life in the name of God. I don't think it has anything to do with the 12 tribes of Israel that John mentioned. The reason fro that is: Gods EDIT: Ops Jesus sacrifice on the 13 of April.
The 12 tribes had a role do until the real lamb was to be sacrificed. Jesus?
Because now the 12 tribes are not 12 tribes anymore??

I interpret that the 1000 years of peace will be everyone who ever had a life as being resurrected and tried again. Why???

Because the devil is not let loose and defeated yet.

I interpret the 1000 yeas of peace as the final test where we have to prove our faith to God before Judgment day?

Now how does this sound to you???

EDIT:

Why cant it be 12 nations?

Well Jesus tells us that Israel will be a big nation. Not the 12 tribes of Israel.
Israel is the name of all who believe and who follow Jesus.
The 12 tribes never fallowed Jesus they Killed him. On the 13 of April.
The 12 tribes of Israel only fallowed Gods law of sacrifice. But they never believed or knew who the Lamb really was.

Edit:

Question: Do you know if the Jews still do the old sacrifice of the lamb to day as they did before the crucifiction of Jesus?

If not they will do it when they build the new temple?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 06:18 PM by napayshni57

reply to post by jmdewey60

I believe the reason he used he or she was (if memory serves me right) the word or name they use in the Jewish religion for God is neither male or female it's a genderless word. Which could mean God really doesn't have a gender. Gender is a physical thing in our world. Outside of our world maybe there is no such thing as gender.

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 06:54 PM by napayshni57

reply to post by spy66

May I suggest looking into quantum physics on thoughts and energy.

Do you know the start of the Lords prayer? The western translation begins:

Our Father, who art in Heaven,

The original Aramaic texts begins "Radiant One: You shine within us, outside us-even darkness shines when we remember.

Sometimes the translations weren't even close for the bibles in the western world.

When you break every thing down to its final subtance you end up with energy. You and your auto end up being made from the same exact thing energy.

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 07:07 PM by spy66

Originally posted by napayshni57
reply to post by spy66

May I suggest looking into quantum physics on thoughts and energy.

Do you know the start of the Lords prayer? The western translation begins:

Our Father, who art in Heaven,

The original Aramaic texts begins "Radiant One: You shine within us, outside us-even darkness shines when we remember.

Sometimes the translations weren't even close for the bibles in the western world.

When you break every thing down to its final subtance you end up with energy. You and your auto end up being made from the same exact thing energy.

If you read my other posts on this topic you will see that i also mention this as well.

I also try to fit science in to what the Bible is saying. Specially about creation.

I have asked if God is energy or related to it. Because God is just the name of a source.

I have also mentioned what Jesus said about a house needing a builder or designer.

For example:

1. A man has a idea to create a house.

the equation becomes like this:

Man + materials = A house. Just like he had in mind.

Now a different one.

Energy + matter = human??
Who has the idea or the design??? The matter or the energy???

Now lets try the same with building a house.

Energy + matter = House??
Who has the design or the thought???

Energy and matter can't think or design??

Energy needs to be combined to have a function. We humans are nothing but energy combined to have a specific function. But it is our specific design which gives us the function we have.

Who or what designed our shape and function???

Edit: Don't say its energy doing a random event all on its own. Because then is just a matter of time before energy and matter will create a house, car or a bike all on its own

Everything we humans have done is done by our knowledge and design. Energy and matter has never made any examples of things we can create. They are merely just tools used to create.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 07:23 PM by napayshni57

reply to post by miriam0566

I do doubt they were placed in the Garden as infants or toddlers. We just assume they were put there as adults.

There is no scriture that puts them there as adults. There is no time set for us to gage that buy. Even at the birth of Abel and Cain we don't know how old Adam and Eve were. The first it speaks of Adams age is when he begat Seth at 130 years old.

We aren't told how old Cain was when he begat his first child so that is no help as to the age of Adam and Eve either when placed in the garden.

We do know Adam lived to be 930 years old. In the grand scheme of things I would say even if Adam were 130 when he begat Seth he would be what we would consider these days a very young teenager when Seth came around.

Have you ever read the book of Adam and Eve (one of the books that didn't make it into the bibles final edit)? If you read it Adam comes acrossed as rather young in thinking God says "Oh Adam" a lot in it as we do with young children.

The body may of been mature but I really doubt the mind was. If Adam was mature I don't think he would of said the woman made me eat the apple. Thats kind of childlike behavior.

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 07:26 PM by napayshni57

reply to post by spy66

I'll probably get to those post I'm reading my way backwards trying to figure out where I was on this thread before I left for a bit.

I believe there is such a thing as conscious energy. There are some experiments being done and have been done where science is wondering about this.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by napayshni57]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 07:36 PM by spy66

reply to post by napayshni57

Everything we humans have done is done by our knowledge and design. Energy and matter has never made any examples of things we can create. They are merely just tools used to create things with.

I have a question for you.

Have you ever given our standard for measurement any thought?

-Like is the speed of light the real speed as we know it as??

- Is the way we measure time the real time.

- Is a 100m really a 100m ?

Have you ever given that a thought?

Edit:

If we dont have the right time how can we measure the right speed that light travels in?

I just want to bring this up to help you think about it.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 4-6-2009 @ 08:09 PM by jmdewey60

reply to post by spy66

First Jesus comes down to defeat the Antichrist and the false profit. When this is done the 1000 years of peace will begin?
The judgment day has not started yet?
In the 1000 year period of peace the dead will be resurrected and the 144 000 will be chosen. Those are the once who sacrificed them self for Jesus and his name?

The judgment for the people who will be in the first resurrection started already and can be calculated to the Daniel prophecy of the cleansing of the Temple. That happened close to 150 years ago and corresponds with what in the Old Testament system is the day of Judgment, which was on Yom Kippur. The judgment starts from the earliest people and works forward. Once everyone who is dead is judged, it starts on the people who are still alive. By the time that happens, there will not be very many good people left. It will be toward the end of the time of tribulation where Christians will be killed on a wholesale basis. Once that is done, there is a pronouncement from the Temple in heaven, "let who is evil, be evil still. Let whoever is righteous, be righteous still." Shortly thereafter Jesus takes those who have already been deemed righteous.
The Judgment of those who were not part of the first resurrection starts when the righteous are in heaven. It says the dead live not until the end of the thousand years. By then, the blessed city is on Earth. Then the second resurrection happens. Some of these people are really bad because they go back to early time when there were the mighty men of war, Gog and Magog. They proceed to lead an attack on the city and are destroyed. Satan and the dark angels are destroyed and the fire overwhelms the Earth and burns all evidence of man ever having been on the planet, while the city floats above it like the ark in the flood.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 06:26 AM by spy66

reply to post by jmdewey60

I have a question about the cleansing of the temple?

Someone told me that this was the war that took place in heaven.
The cleansing took place to make room for the 144 000 kings. Who would rule with Jesus in Jerusalem. The temple is Jerusalem?

I also think that this war has something to do with the debate Michael and Satan had about Moses.

I also think the war has something to do with Job. Where Satan challenged God about Job?

Can you correct me on this if i am wrong?

reply posted on 5-6-2009 @ 12:04 PM by jmdewey60

reply to post by spy66

Yom Kippur has another name which is The Day of Atonement.
This tradition was put in place for a reason, which was to teach us spiritual concepts through physical things. The tabernacle form of the Temple was polluted by the sins of the congregation being transfered to it on a daily bases. At the end of the year, the accumulated sins were removed from the temple in a ceremony which happened during the gathering of the entire nation. They were to do no work on that day and were to fast and afflict their souls while they await the outcome. It was a day of judgment and God may or may not accept them by approving, or not approving, the work of the High Priest in the cleansing.
The calender year, in this context, represents the history of God's people, and the end of the year, in this situation represents our judgment at the end of the world. Notice it only involves the people who keep the Sabbath and afflict their souls and wait upon the Lord.
So, the cleansing of the Temple prophesied by Daniel involves the judgment of those who will ultimately be saved, and no one else.
There is a separate judgment that happens for the people who neglected God and his commandments, which will happen during the one thousand years when the elect are in their places, near the throne of God.
The war in Heaven is a separate telling and though it seems to be inserted between different events, it is not tied to them directly and you can not place it at one specific time. It possibly takes place throughout history and it is told in such a way to make it clear that it ends badly for Satan. We are given other views, in other places in Revelation, about Satan's future and end, and the specifics can be placed at different and more specific times.

note: Not sure what people reading this think about it.
Just in case you might think I copied this from a web site or a book, i did not. This comes right off the top of my head, sitting down to answer a post. I did not get up since I read the post from spy66, and I did not open another tab or window to look something up. This principle I am talking about should be right in front of the minds of every person who believes in God and should be the foremost thought, next to Jesus, of course, for all Christians because otherwise you can not fully appreciate all the things that Jesus is and was, taught about him for generations through symbols and concepts.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 07:28 PM by Imago Dei

Father = Son = Holy Spirit = the Trinity meaning they are all the same thing, which means if they are all the same thing it is not a contradiction of the first comandment, if they where/are not all the same thing, then I agree, it would be a contradiction.

Ice, water, steam, are all the same thing in different forms H2O

Apple tree, apple, apple seed, they are all the same thing in different forms.

The things of God are spiritually descerned, a natural man can not understand them, one needs to be supernaturally born again through faith in Jesus Christ, until this happens, when you are reading the word of God, you are reading someone elses mail, you will never fathom its glorious depths. However when you are reading it, you can be certain that it is the Holy Spirit of God that is leading you to read it in the first place.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 07:32 PM by zetabeam

Only one contradiction ?

The ENTIRE bible is full of contradictions ... not worth the paper, papyrus, vellum, whatever that it was originall written on.

reply posted on 17-6-2009 @ 08:05 PM by Fromabove

Originally posted by LDragonFire
1. You shall have no other gods before Me

The first commandment is simple in its wording; there can be no other explanations for what is said or what it means. Yet modern Christianity does not practice monotheism in a pure form. Christianity teaches and preaches the Trinity The belief that the Father{1} the Son{2} and the Holy Spirit{3} are of one God.

This too me is incorrect and a direct violation of the first commandment.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 {KJV}
This is a direct violation of the first commandment. A contradiction.

The Father and Son are clearly separate beings. The Father meaning The God as in You shall have NO other Gods before ME. Then We have the Son of God, that said

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.” John 14:1 {KJV}

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” John 14:15 {KJV}

Again they are separate beings. Separate Gods

In Colossians it says.. "for in Him (Christ) dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Jesus said, "He that has seen me has seen the Father (God). "..and they shall call His name Immanuel, meaning God with us."
John 1:1 In the beginning was the word (Christ) and the word was with God, and the word was God.. all things were made by Him (Christ).. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created..."

The Christians serve God. The flesh was man, but in Him was God, thus He is the Son of God, yet also the son of man.

reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 12:32 AM by helen670

A contradiction in the Bible

Hi/

Coming upon the Ethiopian as he read the Old Testament in his chariot, Philip the Apostle asked him....... "Understandest thou what thou readest?"
And the Ethiopian answered...........
"How can I,
unless some man should guide me?" (Acts 8:30-31). We are all in the position of the Ethiopian.

There are ONLY contradictions if one chooses to disobey the Word of the Lord.
How can the Bible make EVER sense if people keep going to the WRONG teachings of it.
If one wants to be able to understand the Bible,then stop USING examples of OTHER peoples so called interpretation of the Scriptures!
Who ever is behind those INTERPRETATIONS must have an agenda as to WHY, they want others to follow the falsified translations.

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path" (Psalm 118 [119]:105).

Holy Scripture: "In my Father's house are many mansions …
God will give to everyone according to his deeds …
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory"...from Old and New Testament..... (Is. 64:4; 1 Cor. 2:9; John 14:2, Mt. 16:27, 1 Cor. 3:8, 15:41).
Passages from the Old Testament and the New...
Why else did the Prophets prophesy of the Coming of the Messiah.

icxn
helen

reply posted on 18-6-2009 @ 07:59 PM by jmdewey60

reply to post by helen670

Who ever is behind those INTERPRETATIONS must have an agenda as to WHY, they want others to follow the falsified translations.

What falsified translations are you talking about?

reply posted on 13-7-2009 @ 02:24 AM by helen670

reply to post by jmdewey60

Hi jm,
falsified translations of the Hebrew and Greek.
There are so many people that read what was written, and found certain passages in the Bible to be Contradictory to their BELEIFS, so THEY saw fit to alter slightly the ORIGINAL Scriptures to make it more palatable to suit the tastes of man and not Gods WORD!

There are many passages of the Bible altered on purpose so it becomes more acceptable to all sorts of tastes!
An example...
Taking out certain passages to suit life styles more in modernism then that of God's exact WORDS.

ICXC NIKA
helen