A contradiction in the bible, page 32

reply to post by Comforter

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Where did you read that Satan got Eve pregnant with Cain and that Satan and Adam had a homosexual experience. It sounds like a soap opera. I'm not a Bible scholar but I don't recall ever reading anything like this in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
reply to post by miriam0566

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Would the original Trinity doctrine possibly be trying to state that there are 3 entities, but that the message and final outcome of following the message is identical(i.e. all 3 lead to the same door)?

the Athanasian Creed

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

or we worship one in three

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

they are one not three

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

but each is one individual.

confused yet?

Originally posted by Pappa_Bear
reply to post by Locoman8

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I know the truth of it, I was asking those that have a belief in the Trinity Doctrine, I want to see if maybe the Doctrine was made on sound princibles and possibley warped by man into what is taught in many religions today.

actually from my research, the trinity is largely untouched from its pagan origins.

the names change but the concept is identical

Originally posted by make.changes
reply to post by miriam0566

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when the trinity doctrine states they are three and yet one, it means they are three beings yet one consiousness. i thik i stated it well ith my former post. but you can correct me if you think im wrong.

actually the creed is very clear. they are three. they are one.

yes its contradictory and yes it doesnt make sense.

thats why if you ask any priest to explain it, they say its a "mystery"

Originally posted by holywar
reply to post by make.changes

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do you know what i mean?

no, I don't know what you mean.... no offense, but you almost sound like this guy:

YouTube Link

he is of course being sarcastic.

OMG LMAO!!!

you made soda go through my nose!

reply to post by miriam0566

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you made soda go through my nose!

sorry, i know that can hurt

but seriously, that is exactly how foolish of a doctrine the trinity really is.

reply to post by miriam0566

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Actualy I'm not confused as I have read and studied the bible on this matter, it is clear cut for me, but so many others are glued to the doctrine that is taught in their belief system, yet fail to study for themselves and ask questions of their preachers and expecting the preacher to match the Bible; instead they take what the preacher says on faith.

reply to post by holywar

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you are more correct than many would know as the trinity doctrine is never used in the bible, hence no one can truly explain it as it has morphed over time because it is man made not God inspired.

p.s. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to find any reference to the trinity doctrine in the bible.

this is the 2nd challenge I have put out, wonder if there will be any takers?

reply to post by Locoman8

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As it stands in my perspective all contradictions people claim are from the bible are really from mans interpretations of the bible for various reasons.

Notwithstanding though, there are still topics in the bible that are unclear to me, but I am studying

reply to post by Pappa_Bear

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Keep on studying. Word of advice.... get a concordance and I also recommend the "Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words." It's a valuable tool that will give you the real meanings of some of the words found in the bible, like the word "hell" which doesn't mean a pit of fire for sinners to burn in for eternity. Study tools are always good to have with your bible. I also recommend your bible to be a "center-column reference" bible as well. This will expand your knowledge by showing you other areas of the bible that speak of the same thing or similar things. It also gives alternate translations of words. The possibilities are endless with these study tools.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear

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p.s. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to find any reference to the trinity doctrine in the bible.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all,. . .

There is a trinity right here! It is from Paul, so it has to be considered as a Christian doctrine. It is a simple matter to use very basic logic to come up with a good understanding.
Spirit, that has to be God, right? Holy Spirit, only God can be holy, right?
The Lord, that has to be the Son of God. Jesus is specifically called, by Paul, the Son of God. How can you be the Son of God without being god, yourself?
God, says right in the verse, is Father. This could be assumed to be the Father of Jesus, right?
In the above quoted verse, is a statement of there being one baptism. This is in concord with the commission to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That does not mean you baptize each person three times. This would indicate that there is a unity between the three indicated names that are normally associated with Christianity.
Well, here you go. A biblical reference to a trinity. It is not a reference to an existing trinity doctrine. There isn't a verse that says, "I, Paul, am inquiring of the church in your city, concerning how things are going with the introduction of the trinity doctrine I taught you while I was with you."
My opinion is that anything added to this little formula is a man-made attempt to put God into some sort of a box. The people (the so-called "Church") who made a point of constructing this box did it for the purpose of being able to kill anyone who does not worship the box. We need to toss aside the box and run away from the holders of the box, as the enemies of God.




[edit on 20-7-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60

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you answered your own self there, that verse you quoted has nothing to do with a trinity, it is about man, and his relationship wth God as in how it should be after being baptized(a rebirth if you will).

Had you used 2 Corinthians 13:14

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (NIV)

I would have agreed that is as close to the bible talking about the trinity as you could get.
Still they are 3 seperate individuals as in Holy Spirit is also a seperate indidvidual see Romans 8:27

reply to post by Pappa_Bear

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The idea is that there seems to be a trinity in the New Testament, just not like what people want to have as a creed.
I am not giving a real proof as to how to believe it, just a suggestion as to how one might think of it. The important thing is not to force someone to subscribe to your particular version to be considered a Christian.
There is something in the Bible about the spirit of antichrist that people should be aware of. Jesus was a real person and going on with further speculation without accepting that fact is a mistake. The second thing is to consider how it is that Jesus could actually take upon himself the sins of the world and how he could have his life count as a sufficient payment for them. There seems to me to have to be a kind of divinity wrapped up somehow in who Jesus was, that goes beyond anything anyone else, before or after, has experienced. The third thing to consider is how God has entrusted Jesus with the Kingdom.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Pappa_Bear

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The idea is that there seems to be a trinity in the New Testament, just not like what people want to have as a creed.

where?

if its not in the bible, why even try to make it fit?

reply to post by LDragonFire

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the two years of this thread running is one big statement how this "contradiction" really affects everybody.
this is just the very main thing the powers that be would like us humans to wallow in...

reply to post by jmdewey60

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In the above quoted verse, is a statement of there being one baptism. This is in concord with the commission to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That does not mean you baptize each person three times.

There are actually two baptisms that are to take place when you decide to do it. The baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the water baptism which is symbolic for burying the old sinful self and resurrecting into a new spiritual life. When this is done, it is custom to have the hands of ordained ministers laid upon your head for the recieving of the holy spirit. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Read in acts when John and Peter go to Samaria to lay hands on those who were already baptised in the name of Jesus. God is involved with both steps so it's natural to see the two baptisms combined are in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It's not one single water baptism like most christians think it is.

reply to post by Locoman8

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it is custom to have the hands of ordained ministers laid upon your head for the recieving of the holy spirit.

Not a baptism that I am familiar with, though it sounds as if I may have heard of something like this before.
Ananias put his hands on Paul when he came to Damascus. Peter and the Apostiles put their hands on some people who were baptized earlier but not in the spirit. It may not have been necessary to do this with ones baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
It can also be argued that Paul had not had that form of baptism, himself, but may have been baptized by John, and thus so, had to be baptized in the name of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.


[edit on 21-7-2009 by jmdewey60]

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