A contradiction in the bible

reply to post by Kacen


Well, I guess the best way I can understand it is:
Water, Ice, Steam. All manifestations of the same property but in different formats. Where Ice is, water and steam are there in essence because essentially the properties that make up Ice are inherrant in the others. They are 3 independant but singularly the same things.

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
reply to post by Kacen

 

Well, I guess the best way I can understand it is:
Water, Ice, Steam. All manifestations of the same property but in different formats. Where Ice is, water and steam are there in essence because essentially the properties that make up Ice are inherrant in the others. They are 3 independant but singularly the same things.

im sorry, but the ice, water, vapor illustration doesnt work.

we never see h2o molecules in all three states at the same time. they are either one or the other or becoming the other.

nor are they independent of each other as they are infact the same thing.

I agree with the OP, the trinity is NOT a biblical teaching.








NOTE: I do not agree with Dan Mages interpretation of John 1:1

The Christians I've personally known are the LEAST likely to look at fact! So what if there's a contradiction, a misinterpretation, an outright attrocity by the loving God.

There are 38,000 denominations [check my threads for links and citations for this]. People believe what they want and call it Christianity because it makes them feel safe, righteous, egoic, mirthful, whatever... fill in the blank.

My signature is a direct contradiction in the Bible as well... do people care? Nope.

[My view of God? The God of the Bible is asking for love the way an abusive father asks for love right before he hits you for non-compliance]


[edit on 17-7-2009 by notreallyalive]

Originally posted by notreallyalive
My signature is a direct contradiction in the Bible as well... do people care? Nope.

i dont care because your "contradiction" is based on a misunderstanding.

Originally posted by notreallyalive

My signature is a direct contradiction in the Bible as well... do people care? Nope.

Your signature contradicts what you are trying to prove. "Earth" in the sense of what was created on the 3rd day was actually the land mass separated from the waters. Read for yourself. The opening line of the Holy Bible is "In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the EARTH. The creation week begins with the earth being "without form" v.2. Water was already on the earth when creation week happened once again shown in verse 2 of Genesis 1. The earth already existed before the first day of creation week. Day 1 isn't the beginning of everything. Day 1 is the creation AFTER a desolate planet lay in ruins.... probably due to comet or meteor strike through spiritual battles between God and Lucifer (Satan). Once again, your signature needs to be corrected. It's a poor choice of argument.

Originally posted by miriam0566
Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
reply to post by Kacen

we never see h2o molecules in all three states at the same time. they are either one or the other or becoming the other.

nor are they independent of each other as they are infact the same thing.

exactly! hence the trinity...being the same...thing...

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


God and Jesus are separate beings. God is the Father and Jesus is the Son/Word of God. They are the same in the sense that the Son carries over attributes of the Father if you want to look at it in a genetic way. I am my father's son. I carry the name of my father in my last name. Jesus, who's hebrew name "Yeshua" should properly be translated "Joshua" but either way you say it, the name means "God is my salvation." Once again, the name of the Son is carried over from the Father. How can the Father "YHWH" and the Son "Jesus" be the same person? Jesus prayed to the Father, called the Father "greater" than He, and told others to worship the Father "in the name of Christ." In the name of Christ simply acknowledges that Jesus is our mediator or "High Priest" who takes our prayers to God as opposed to the old levitical system in which the high priest slaughtered a goat for a "sin offering" for the nation of Israel. Once again, the trinity is a man-made doctrine not supported by the scriptures.

reply to post by Locoman8

Once again, the trinity is a man-made doctrine not supported by the scriptures.

What scriptures do you refer to? I was answering in response to the trinity "doesn't exsist" by a poster who didn't like the vapor/water/ice analogy.

your looking at the bible literally.

if you want to look at it that way thats fine. However this book was not created by a bunch of wage slaves on a one night bender escape from their 9-5 jobs.

Interpreting these passages literally is problematic due to translation.

Secondly looking at them in black and white removes the creative thought necessary to make more of their words. Perhaps this reading is a bit too heavy for you I would suggest some hardy boys or some Jane Collins if this is too intense. The bible is not an instruction book to each person its supposed to hold its own meaning. Every religious text is like this from the koran to the Baghdad vita sic.

reply to post by Comforter


Finaly someone who sees the bible and the words of Jesus as being literal, not to be interpreted by some organized religion. As Jesus flatly stated that he was not his Father. Also if Christ was God as the trinity doctrine supposes, Why would he call on his Father(i.e. God) asking why his Father had forsaken him.

Sorry OP, the bible does not contradict itself in this matter at all, only man and his interpretation has done that.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


Hello, fellow Unitarian! I'm happy to see that you read the bible and follow it's doctrine instead of some denomination's doctrine on what they think the bible says.

Originally posted by Wookiep
exactly!

hence the trinity...being the same...thing...

sorry but no.

trinity doctrine says that they are three and yet one. not one with 3 sides. or 1 with 3 forms.

there is a difference

reply to post by miriam0566


Would the original Trinity doctrine possibly be trying to state that there are 3 entities, but that the message and final outcome of following the message is identical(i.e. all 3 lead to the same door)?

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


The problem with that is the Holy Spirit. The HS is not a being as Jesus and God are. The Holy Spirit is simply the "power" of God working within us. It is a force, an act, but not a god. Jesus is a god and YHWH is THE GOD. Jesus being the Son of THE GOD makes Him a god, rightfully. The best way to explain it is with the "Godhead." God makes up the head of the family of God. Jesus is at the right hand of God. All that's missing is the children of God who will be those taken up in the first resurrection/rapture after tribulation and then those who accept God at the 2nd resurrection after the 1000 years of peace on earth.

can someone answer a questions in regards to why an OMNIPRESENT being would need to test its creation? god being all knowing would surely know of the outcome of any test before it is carried out making the test itself meaningless. so what is the point of TESTING our faith if he knows exactly what we are going to do. thats like asking someone what will happen if you put your hand in water... im pretty sure the answer is going to be your hand is going to get wet.

so please explain why god needs to test us if god already knows the answer and why then does god call it a sin when the act of sinning was already predetermined even before we were born. god is either all knowing or not. if not then by definition it is not god. if it is then there is no sin as it is all going according to gods plan whatever that is.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I can give you an theoretical answer.
Omnipresent, Omnipotent Would know all the different trails we could take, and would know the outcome of each decision we would make, as there are always more than one decision we could make.

Example, your child has to make a decision- the apple or the cookie, but the child sees a bananna on the counter; now you know if the child picks the apple they will eat part of it, and prolly spill the seeds on the floor, easy mess to clean up, the cookie however has choclate chips in it so you know that you will have a choclatey child to clean up plus the mess on the floor, now you see the child looking at the bananna and you know if the child picks that you will have mashed bananna in the floor, on the child and in their clothes. Just because you know the outcome of each of the childs decisions and yet still give the child the freewill to choose which they want would be a single example of an Omnipotent God.

Does this help in anyway?

reply to post by Locoman8


I know the truth of it, I was asking those that have a belief in the Trinity Doctrine, I want to see if maybe the Doctrine was made on sound princibles and possibley warped by man into what is taught in many religions today.

some jehovah witnesses believe that it is one in three not three in one they are not all god but part of god, being part of god does not mean you are god and yes jesus did say that he was god, but because he was part of god. and yes they are seperatebeing but they are also the single being known as the trinity. so perhaps there are four parts of god the god being, the son being, the ghost being, and the trinity . all being god in its self, while god is a seperate being and everything that truthfully accepted god in its self being. you just have to understand what he meant when he said he was god. do you know what i mean?

reply to post by miriam0566


when the trinity doctrine states they are three and yet one, it means they are three beings yet one consiousness. i thik i stated it well ith my former post. but you can correct me if you think im wrong.