A contradiction in the bible, page 39

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reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 01:31 AM by evil incarnate

Originally posted by ts117

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by agoodshot

you can't explain the doctrine correctly, it's nonsensical in nature

1=1
3=1
1=3

that doesn't make sense!
especially since characters 2 and 3 only appeared about 2/3rds of the way into the story..

1 = Volume of a Cube
Volume = (1)base*(2)width*(3)*height

V=abc
abc=V

Three measurements equal one solution.

Does this mean that Jesus was incomplete?

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 01:36 AM by Locoman8

reply to post by ashanu90

Helen 670 answered the question for me. God didn't create evil. The rebellious ways of Lucifer created evil through his free will. God created humans without the knowledge of this evil, thus making them pure and sinless.... His creation was perfect at this point. After Satan decieves the humans, the first human sins are committed. God does not stop free will... instead He makes a plan that will ultimately rid the world of sin in the end. Until then, He's testing His creation to see how many people are truely faithful to His Word. Unlike most christians, I don't believe most people go to hell. I don't even believe in hell being an everlasting punishment for sinners. I believe what the bible tells me about hell.... it's a lake of fire that burns the unrepentant to their second death. All will have their opportunity to repent at Judgement and most will accept God. Some will still refuse God... the truely evil people of the world who have the same mindset as Satan. So, evil will be eliminated through the lake of fire (rev. 20-21) and paradise on earth (rev. 22) will abound as the new heaven befalls on the new earth (Heaven on Earth). That's my answer to your "evil" statement. (Note that evil is in quotations denoting that your statement wasn't evil but refered to the subject of evil in your statement).

Peace.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 01:49 AM by Locoman8

reply to post by evil incarnate

I'll play your little game. Unlike most, I don't believe God knew exactly what would happen from beginning to end since that would just make free will a useless tool. God knew every choice or "path" that could be made. He devised a plan for each choice/path made by mankind but the choices still lead to the same outcome.... Heaven on Earth and the absense of evil(revelation 22).

Now since the taking of the forbidden fruit, there have been a lot of right and left turns off the straight and narrow path, but all roads still lead to the same end.

God's grief wasn't that He gave mankind free will. I mean, He didn't want to control a bunch of robots. As a Father, He wanted His children to accept him and the pretty much said "I hate you!" As a parent, that would grieve me. Suffering, natural disasters, death in general.... call it discipline. And don't give me the "God kills" argument because to the spirit world, death is that of body and soul and only God can ultimately do that through Judgement Day. A gun to the head can't permanently kill you. If you don't understand suffering and why God allows it, reread or read the book of Job. It's a test of faith when not everything is rainbows and butterflies. In the famous words of John Michael Montgomery, "Life's a dance, you learn as you go. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. Don't worry about what you don't know. Life's a dance, you learn as you go."

Peace.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 01:59 AM by evil incarnate

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by evil incarnate

I'll play your little game. Unlike most, I don't believe God knew exactly what would happen from beginning to end since that would just make free will a useless tool.

No game here. Why do Christians always see questions as something nefarious? What good is your faith if it is never questioned?

You say all you need to say right here. You do not believe that God is omniscient. OK. So you just made up your own god. I got it.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:42 AM by Locoman8

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by evil incarnate

I'll play your little game. Unlike most, I don't believe God knew exactly what would happen from beginning to end since that would just make free will a useless tool.

No game here. Why do Christians always see questions as something nefarious? What good is your faith if it is never questioned?

You say all you need to say right here. You do not believe that God is omniscient. OK. So you just made up your own god. I got it.

How is my God not omniscient? Omniscient by definition is as follows:

"One having total knowledge."

I just told you that God knew every outcome of every choice made. He is pre-planned for whatever choice mankind or the individual man makes. Total knowledge does not mean total control. We still have the freedom to choose as we want. God knows what choices are before us and knows every outcome for every choice. That is all knowing to me. If you go any further with "all knowing" or "total knowledge" then God infringes on our free will. Mankind's ultimate destiny may have already been written since all paths lead to mankind's ultimate destiny, but individuals still have their choices. God may not know if I scratch my butt or sneeze first, but He knows I'll do both. The outcome is the same... an itch relief and and germs flying though the air through forced exit of my nose and mouth. Point is, He knows what can happen and ultimately what will happen. He is "all knowing."

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 03:42 AM by fizzy1

LOl another trinity thread. Well heres my 2 cents. First off i am not really christian. I mean i used to be. I bought the whole package at one time but my faith is pretty much gone these days. I have come to the conclusion that if there is a god i dont really care cause he is very absent these days. But to the topic at hand. I get the idea behind the trinity and it does make sense from a spiritual standpoint. To the guy who stated that the early christian church didnt agree onthe trinity is very correct. History shows that at Nicea they argued very bitterly overt htis very concept. There have been many sects of christianity throughout the ages and they have differed very greatly in their practices of worship and views. That being said there is no proof other than popular belief that eventually became accepted by a standardized church that jesus was born of a virgin and that he is the son of god.

This issue of christs divinity will never be solved. It has been an ongoing debate for a few millenia now and will keep going until god decides to get back in the game and make an appearance and let us ignorant humans know for a fact yeah or neigh.

The truth of it is this. For those out there who believe, they need no other proof of what they beleive and for those that dont beleive well christians, no proof will ever be enough to satisfy them so really the debate should cease.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 08:21 AM by evil incarnate

Originally posted by Locoman8
How is my God not omniscient? Omniscient by definition is as follows:

"One having total knowledge."

I just told you that God knew every outcome of every choice made. He is pre-planned for whatever choice mankind or the individual man makes. \

Hmmmmm. Not sure. How about you explain to me why he is not omniscient. You said it.

originally posted by locoman8
I don't believe God knew exactly what would happen from beginning to end

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 12:56 PM by ashanu90

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by ashanu90

God didn't create evil. The rebellious ways of Lucifer created evil through his free will. Peace.

and he just let it happen how irresponsible
he knew it would happen but created lucifer anyway

thanks alot god

not that i believe any of that

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:31 PM by Keeper of Kheb

the original text it was translated from reads "Elohim" which the term is considered a pural term. for example our government is made up of three branches. the executive, judicial and legislative forming one government. so with God you have the father who is the architect, the son who is the builder, and the holy spirit who executes the plan making one God head. there is only one God made up of three individuals but still one being. another example water exists as a liquid, gas, and a solid. God is manifested as the father, son, and holy spirit. It is not a contradiction. jesus made himself clear that he was God and that he was in the father and the father was in him. jesus stated that he was "I AM" signifying that he was God to the people who asked him because that was what God revealed himself as when moses spoke to God at the burning bush. the holy spirit is God revealed throughout the bible descending upon jesus empowering him, and acts when the holy spirit descended upon the church empowering them.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:41 PM by Rockstrongo37

reply to post by LDragonFire

Age old question with a simple answer contained in the Trinity. A term, not in the Bible, to deal with the plurality of the God head "three in one". Three separate beings the Father Son and Holy Spirit, who are connected spiritualy and eternaly as one God Head. Each identify as a part of the other two yet they can exist separately. A big cookie to munch I know yet one of those theological mysteries that has always been understood in this way since the very beginning of the Church.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:44 PM by Rockstrongo37

reply to post by ashanu90

His allowing there to be evil isnt a failure of God, its part of a plan of choice for man. He would rather have us choose to follow him in our own free will then force us to submit to him. In order for there to be a choice there must be two sides...good and evil. Otherwise submission to God would simply be slavery and he would rather it be a choice to join his family.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:47 PM by ashanu90

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

why do you believe it?

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 02:59 PM by Rockstrongo37

reply to post by ashanu90

Why do I believe in God? That I dont think I can give you a convincing explination except that I choose to have faith because of what I have read in both the Bible, and my personal experience in life.

I learned a long time ago that there are those people in life who are lovers of truth and those who choose to be decieved.

The unique message in the Bible of a salvation that is a gift while other faiths and religions teach assention or "salvation" through works is what convinced me the most I think.

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 03:03 PM by ashanu90

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

well you may take this offensiveley but believe me taht is not what im trying to do here is some countering i found for that

www.youtube.com...

this code may or may not work to bring the video directly here
width="660" height="525"> "http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/LfcYRKk0sa8&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525">

reply posted on 1-4-2010 @ 03:16 PM by Rockstrongo37

reply to post by ashanu90

I dont find this offensive at all. But the argument being made there is too general and doesnt take into account all those who are "christians" in those areas that he is talking about. All the "chrstians" who exist eventhough the predominate religions in the area that may indeed be different. Its easy to simply right off "spiritual" experiences or faith as a weakness of the mind but I think its even more a credit of strength to ones mind who has faith in something that simply cannot be seen or experienced in a limited or cynical mindset. Call faith a crutch but I see it instead as a door.

reply posted on 5-4-2010 @ 10:48 PM by ravhen

I've never understood why people stuggle so much to understand the Trinity. The way I see it, whenever the Bible talks about God it is basically making a reference to an organization. God is the title of the group of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So many confuse God as being only the father. If someone were to ask you what makes up the United States you would likely say the president, congress, and the people. You wouldn't say that the United States is made up of Barack Obama.

reply posted on 6-4-2010 @ 08:45 AM by Locoman8

reply to post by ravhen

My point exactly. The Family of God... which is "God" makes up the Father, the Son, and the Father's future children. The Holy Spirit is God's power... not a separate being. Once again, I don't call it a trinity. It's the Family of God.

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