Originally posted by The Axeman
We're square then, Intrepid?

Hey, are you trying to paint me as a Mason?

It's all good, let's keep it off of the board though. If he had wanted it there he would have put it there. Probably didn't need to say that but I'm anal about things. Hate loose ends.

And thanks for your patience.

If this REALLY is happening then it is something that must be dealt with immediately. I am happy that the OP has decided to verify his identity - and if this is true - then I will apologize for calling this a joke. Given how the OP described the situation, I am sure that it can be seen why I would say such things...

[edit on 26-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

I believe that this group of lodge officers mocking the ritual by acting like monkeys is reflected by their belief that the obligations are meaningless. That sets the direction of "there is no rules".
The Grand lodge not addressing this, sets in stone that there are no rules of conduct in the entire state.
RacerX and I met several times with the Grand Master regarding all aspects of what has taken place. He had assured us that these issues will be dealt with, however he buckled under pressure from one of the rites, of whom the main instigator of monkeyism had or has a very high rank in.
It is always said there is no higher then 3rd degree. In this state or lodge in question, this has proven to be not true. The Grand Lodge did admit that the pressure from one of the rites. caused them to back down.
RacerX and I made the decision not to enter either rite because of the fighting between them. It would indicate to me that the rites have more clout then Grand lodge.
Sort of along the line of Rodney Dangerfield. "I went to a fight and a Mason lodge broke out".

[edit on 26-11-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
It is always said there is no higher then 3rd degree. In this state or lodge in question, this has proven to be not true. The Grand Lodge did admit that the pressure from one of the rites. caused them to back down.
RacerX and I made the decision not to enter either rite because of the fighting between them. It would indicate to me that the rites have more clout then Grand lodge.

I guess where this breaks down for me is that surely awareness of the goings-on in your Lodge aren't limited to your Lodge and your state's Grand Lodge (not to mention an eager audience of non-Masons on ATS). That being the case, this no longer is an issue of 3 men being goofs.

I also wonder what's supposed to happen to the officer procession in your Lodge. IIRC, you said the shenanigans were being perpetrated by the Master and Wardens. So where are the rest of the brethren in your Lodge and how long until your Lodge elections? I find it hard to believe that if everything's going on as you say, that there isn't 2 or 3 others who'd blackball moving the Wardens up when the time comes. Surely there must be 2 or 3 PMs in your Lodge who could take the chairs and gavel while the other officers move up in the interim (assuming this isn't in contravention of some state or Lodge bylaw).

It all comes back to the point that, if true and left unhalted, this has ramifications that far outweigh any pressure any appendant rite should be in a position to inflict. Better to shutter the Lodge and send it dark than allow a travesty to be inflicted on Masonry in general. But I'll reiterate that I find the entire episode being surfaced on ATS of all places to be rather dubious as far as enhancing believability.

What is really sick, there is no real progression of officers in this lodge, all officers are PMs with the exception of the newly elected Master, one of the same bunch.
There are enough members not involved to take over and steer the lodge in a positive direction, however it was said by a Grand lodge officer, that there was too much pressure from one of the rites to do so.
The members other then RacerX and I are in fear of Grand Lodge. Racer X and I have met many times with 2 Grand Masters and the Grand Secretary over this and watched them buckle to the pressure from the Rite.
We can not follow those that can not lead.
Note that I have not mentioned the Rite. Maybe there could be good people in it, However I have not seen that and consider them to be lost.
I have passed on info, if it didnt get through, let me know. There is much more and it only gets worse, much worse.

RacerX and I talked last night, he felt this little problem may be worth talking about.
The night we were booted out of the lodge, there was a vote on a candidate that is a "crossdresser", that is, a man that dresses as a women.
Two weeks before the vote, we approached the Master of the lodge and told him that we needed to talk about this issue. Instead, the Master did not talk to us, they kicked us out at the start of the meeting and voted him in.
As I said before, the Grand Master reinstated us shortly after "2 weeks", we were informed that, we could object to the vote because we were present at the meeting but unable to attend the vote. We did exactly that. The candidate then withdrew.
There is an openly gay lodge in the big city in our state. However, we are in a small town, the candidate in question is well known and considered a freak.
Having a member such as this would be a disaster to the fraternity in this town. Please, we are not bashing gays, its just a practical problem in a very conservative minded area.
That aside, the officers of this lodge deprived us of our right to vote in the first place. The Grand Lodge did nothing to address that issue along with the many others.
Any thoughts?

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
The Grand Lodge did admit that the pressure from one of the rites. caused them to back down.

This also baffles me, since the Grand Lodge has the authority to shut down the rites in their jurisdiction should they so take a mind to. Any of the rites' leaders can be suspended or expelled for misconduct by the Grand Lodge.

I am not homophobic, the crossdresser, from what I can gather may be a different thing from gay.
The main problem in this small town. the candidate was flamboyant about it, observed in public making this visual life style statement. Our problem is the Lodge would be also effected. My thought is, lodge does not need to condone that way out of the community values personal statement
RacerX and I went to the Master of the lodge, to get some clarity before the vote. Though, we did not tell the Master, we would vote negative, he assumed so and was part of kicking us out before the vote.
The Grand Lodge did suspend the secretary of the lodge for bringing charges of a personal nature against RacerX and I, they did not address any other problems of the lodge.
It is our opinion, because of the stupidly false charges that were brought, the main reason was over the vote on the crossdresser.
It was stated to us by a Grand Lodge officer, that the Grand lodge gave in to one of the rites interference into this blue lodge business, the suspended secretary is high up and they want him back in.
I suppose the rites could be a good thing in other locations, here, we have seen no good from them and feel they are a detriment to much needed progress in the blue lodge.
It is very obvious to us, in this state, The rites control Grand Lodge.
The worst event of all is when the Master of this lodge stated the "obligations are only words" to the Grand Lodge officers. "I believe we posted the reply we received via email" basically the Grand Lodge feels the same.
This small lodge is over 150 yrs old, it also has considerable assets, the situation with the assets is in serious question also.
Sadly this group, has ran this historic lodge into the ground in less than 10yrs.

I have to say that I do feel that crossdressing is a character issue. In a small conservative town, dressing as a woman in public is making a bold statement.
In this circumstance, bringing a crossdresser into the lodge, would show that the lodge is sexually deviant to the norm of the community. This would have a dramatic negative impact on the entire Masonic system here.
My feeling is, the right to vote is most important to protect the fraternity from the variable circumstances of behavior of potential members.
Our right to vote was terminated by the officers of this lodge, we were able to later prevent it.
The thought of this candidate having a sex change operation, did cross our minds. Is it our duty to deal with these things?
Can we take a good man and make a better woman?
Can a lodge in a small town with some church leaders claiming we are a devil cult take on this burden also?
If this would have happened, we would be outcasts, worse then it is already.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

[edit on 19-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

My Dad was a loyal Mason for over 40 years, and he and a few others were the victims of a Lodge problem: Some members were unhappy with the State bigshots and expressed it openly. My Dad was Secretary and dutifully wrote down what was said, making no comment personally. When the lawyers, which is all that the ' leadership ' of the Masons are anywhere, heard about it they came down hard: threatened to take the lodge, legally, away from the members, expelled my Dad, suspended several others for up to five years. it broke my dads heart.

He was a certified lecturer and past master and held every office there is. He coulseled new Masons and spent uncounted hours memorizing book after book. Total dedication: But what he did was technically correct, but not politically correct, and he paid the price. He still will not say a bad word about Masonry but I know that he intended to die with the ring on and wearing the apron when he went to his final rest. It almsot killed him to be expelled from a fraternity that he lived and worled for for so long:

But the lawyers will destroy a Lodge fast if they are allowed to have ultimate control. They will tolerate no views counter to the official stance, and complaints are not to be heard at gthe upper levels. Any sign of a rebellion or upset members brings swift and sure punishments. Not my kind of club, but to each his own. I resent the whole deal for the hurt it caused a very good man but I know that most members are Ok guys and not a part of the money, the power, the politics..the GRAND poohbahs that ignore the rank and file for their own reasons, mostly those that serve to enrich themselves while the common member just pays his dues and keeps his mouth shut..or else.

I am perhaps not qualified to address the morality of crossdressing. Just my opinion of character, I feel there is something odd there. My problem could be, I do not understand crossdressing.
Eyewitness, for sure the Grand Lodge has lawyers on RacerX and I, they even tried to set us up for a fall more than once.
I would suppose the lawyers are now trying to find out how to get the Grand Lodge out of mounting liability due to their own failure.
We had two Grand Masters lie to our face along with their officers. Maybe they will end up frenzy scratching and swinging in trees with dresses on!