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posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Maybe I am seeking advice, or what would you do?
I am a 3rd generation Master Mason and in 2 lodges, J Warden in one. The lodge I am not an officer in is the problem.
The problems started when the officers were acting like monkeys, this bothered me and others as it was corrupting the ritual, and in fact the S Warden addressed the W Master as Worshipful Monkey. I wished I was kidding!
So, I went to the Master and stated that some members did not like that. This only caused more Monkey acting combined with frenzy scratching.
Then the secretary of the lodge said "we have no money" for Books for Bikes. This caused members to ask" what happened to the money", again I went to the master of the lodge with those concerns. There is much more, but that is enough.
Next, I and another were suspended and expelled for calling into question the Secretary. I mean, we were escorted out of the lodge with no warning.
We brought this to the district Deputy of the Grand Lodge and shortly were reinstated by the Grand Master.
The Secretary was suspended, and oddly the person that was tossed out with me was elected Secretary.
Then the Master deposed himself and the main Monkey or S Warden is now master.
The resulting situation is bordering on extreme hatred and violence. It has even spread into Eastern Star where my wife and mother will not return.
the Grand Master actually has ordered me to attend this lodge until it can be fixed.
However the Grand lodge is buckling and not stopping the Monkey problem, if fact making it worse.
Anyone within 3 states of me knows who I am.
Iam ready to jump ship. Would you?




posted on Sep, 22 2007 @ 11:52 PM
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Have you thought about approaching your jurisdiction's Grand Lodge with your problems? As a non-Mason, I don't know how they handle these problems, but there's a couple of things they could do: a. try to replace the leadership of the lodge; b. move you to a different lodge.

Would you care at least sharing what jurisdiction this lodge is in? I'm about to join the masons and I don't want to get into a lodge that doesn't have their ducks in a row.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:33 AM
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uber..., the Grandmaster did reinstate us. However he failed to fix the problem. The problem being the remaining officers. Sadly, the then Master of the lodge and officers did say to a deputy of the Grand Lodge that" the obligations, are just words and have no meaning". That is the most outrageous statement that could ever be made in my opinion. The crew should have been sacked right then.
It would be a little much to state my location, however this chat will be found out rather quickly I would suspect. I am a Free Mason, I do have a right to speak. This will, for lack of better words, make some very pissed.
With this situation set aside, Free Masonry is a beautiful thing and it is important to take in account that accepting members from the general public, there will be some rotten apples that get in.
In this situation some younger members took advantage of an aging membership lodge and run it to ruin. This is not my home lodge, this one my Grandfather and Father were members, thus I am 3rd generation in this lodge "they asked me" big mistake on my part.
I would go ahead and join, if you find its a bad lodge, find a better one and petition to join. In my experience, if you complain to a lodge master, you will have hell to pay.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF

The problems started when the officers were acting like monkeys, this bothered me and others as it was corrupting the ritual, and in fact the S Warden addressed the W Master as Worshipful Monkey. I wished I was kidding!
So, I went to the Master and stated that some members did not like that. This only caused more Monkey acting combined with frenzy scratching.


First off, I feel that I must state that I am not a Mason. I have a few friends who are and they are great guys who have expressed nothing but positive things about their fraternal organization. That said, I can only shake my head in amazement at your statements.

Let me get this straight. When you say that the officers were "acting like monkeys", do you mean acting like monkeys? You know, knuckle-dragging, flea-picking, armpit scratching monkeys?

All I can say is that this is one of the most bizarre things that I have ever read about any Masonic activity. Has your lodge gone bananas (no pun intended but, hey, it seemed to fit)? Is the Master of your lodge sane? How can the Master of a lodge exert so much control over the officers and membership to make them act this way?



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:28 AM
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I find it very, very hard to believe that a ''master mason'' as yourself would be asking advice on how to be a mson on an internet message board...



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:36 AM
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I think this is a tongue and cheek dig on a fellow member. Perhaps a mod. It is too bizarre to even respond to other than to say I wouldn't take seriously.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 01:50 AM
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This is totally sick, but it did happen. Yes, the officers at their stations acted like monkeys, scratching and all, like children imitating Cheeta, during open lodge
This has been stopped by Grand lodge by having special deputies of the Grand Master baby sit every lodge meeting until who knows when.
How did it come to this? The secretary filled the the lodge with morons that he brought in. The lodge was run for about 4 years from the secretary desk.
Sadly these individuals chased off most of the elderly members and in fact are a bunch of bullies that hijacked the lodge.
Fortunately, I do know Masons from other states that assure me this is not normal.
The Grand Lodge seems powerless to really take care of this, thus allowing discontent to spread through the other bodies.

Zen.. no where did I ask how to be a Mason, just the question, should I bail out of this particular lodge, or give up on it ever getting better.
Not all things are as they should be,no matter where you are or what you do.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 02:48 AM
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If this is indeed the case and it makes you uncomfortable, I would remove yourself from the uncomfortability.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 03:09 AM
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I didnt mean that as you took it.

A master mason would know his duties and i would like to think know how to perform them- not asking on the internet for help.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 03:26 AM
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Yes, it has nearly destroyed all enjoyment of the fraternity for me. My family is not happy and wants me out.
Lost faith in Grand Lodge for allowing the problem to escalate to this point, by dropping the ball.
I was on the phone with my friend who is now secretary, he is discouraged and will bail out also.
We will find a lodge where the obligations are more than meaningless words.

Very strange zen..., just what are ones duties under circumstances such as these?

[edit on 23-9-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 07:03 AM
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Strange enough for grown men to be playing around like that in a place that should require a bit more..............dedication to the formalities.

It is another thing altogether when they are asked to cut it out and continue to annoy the others who aren't into the game.

Why were they acting like monkeys in the first place? Was it a racial implication or were they devolving back to a simpler state of social behavior, or were they just plain acting up like kids?

Did it go on for a long time or was it a brief instance that would have passed and been forgotton if a few people didn't make an issue of it. Sometimes that is the case and it becomes a personal power struggle between the people involved.

It doesn't sound to me like you will ever be happy there because your values and standards aren't the same as the other members it sound like so why don't you move on to somewhere that your expectations of the conduct would be served better.

They sound immature and you sound a bit too stuffy.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 08:53 AM
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This is certainly one of the most bizarre posts I think I have ever read on ATS - and that's saying something.

HDFACTORYCERTIF -

There are much more appropriate forums than this to seek advice. As has already been mentioned - direct contact is always a good place to start, but even here in the net you will find such places as The Lodge Room US a more useful resource.

ATS is primarily a site for investigating conspiracies, although admittedly you might be hard pressed to find any in the SS forum recently, and there are a higher percentage of members here who may give poor if well-intentioned advice through ignorance.

Having said all that, your claims are so fantastic and outlandish that I hardly know whether you are being honest or not. I have never heard of anything close to such monkey-business in freemasonry, and the most incredible aspect of your tale is that GL is unable or unwilling to act in the matter. You reluctance to discuss details is concerning and undermines your original claim to be seeking advice. Like I said - I believe this is the wrong forum, and if your Grand Master really is lurking on ATS awaiting evidence to finally expel you I would respectfully suggest finding another organization to join.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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My friend and I were already wrongfully expelled, then reinstated, a most horrible and degrading experience.
These individuals went far beyond just having fun in lodge, and lodge is supposed to be fun.
The Grand lodge seems to be weak in the knees and appears spineless to deal with a situation like this, being that a situation like this has never come up before.
Again, these lodge officers stated to Grand Lodge officers that, "the obligations are just words with no meaning". That right there outrages me more then the multitude of other events that have taken place.
These individuals have severely damaged the reputation of Masons in the town by their out of lodge conduct as well.
I do realize my own failure in this situation, as much as I tried, I could not make them better men.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Sounds like someone just trying to paint Masonry as poorly as they can. No one in the right mind would pick AQTS as a place to ask this.

Cory



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:17 PM
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Come on corsig, do you really think that every lodge conducts itself properly?
In any organization problems do occur, Masons can create a mess also.
In some states it would appear that Masons are weak.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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"Maybe I am seeking advice, or what would you do?
I am a 3rd generation Master Mason and in 2 lodges, J Warden in one. The lodge I am not an officer in is the problem."

If you are real say good bye to your tongue!



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Very interesting, it would appear that net lurking Masons would rather me not say a word about this rather then find outrage over other Masons that believe the "Obligations Are Just Words".
I am certainly not spilling the secret ritual out on the net, only pointing out a flaw in the fraternity.
This is an observation of a Free Mason not one in bondage or fear.
Anyway, work calls, back later.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Very interesting, it would appear that net lurking Masons would rather me not say a word about this rather then find outrage over other Masons that believe the "Obligations Are Just Words".
I am certainly not spilling the secret ritual out on the net, only pointing out a flaw in the fraternity.
This is an observation of a Free Mason not one in bondage or fear.
Anyway, work calls, back later.


Assuming that you are who you say you are and your story is legit, I would recommend that you file charges of unmasonic conduct against the offenders. The Constitution of your Grand Lodge will have instructions on the proper manner to go about this.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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And if the Grand Lodge of your jurisdiction doesn't do anything about this, you could go to the national level, and then UGLE. And, of course, there are always things you could do to stay anonymous at each level.



posted on Sep, 23 2007 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by uberarcanist
 



National level? Who's that? Please do tell... My little black book doesn't have that number in it.



UGLE? And what pray tell are they going to do about it? They have about as much to say about this as any of the non-Freemasons who are participating in this thread.





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