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posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 01:34 AM
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Even a Bourbon drinking fellow such as I would slug down some Leonetti, out of a foam cup of course! (-:




posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by lajansann
I am absolutely speechless! As I read the opening statement of this thread I thought surely I had somehow gained entry into a discussion I had no business being in. (I'm sorry, but I was compelled to continue reading!)


I too initially thought there was a very real problem when I saw the thread name. On closer scrutiny and examination I feel that the only problem is imaginary.


I honestly can not believe that a 3rd generation Master Mason would not know who or how to properly report such outrageous conduct to, rather than airing it publicly on an open forum discussion!!


Are you using logic??? Shame on you.


I have enormous respect for this organization,


Thank you, we appreciate it.


but am well aware of the mass number of anti-Mason fanatics that would just have a field day with all of this!


Would be a good reason to post nonsense like this, would it not?


If nothing else, I'm really surprised there aren't Member Only Forums where such matters could be discussed not only in private, but in such a manner that, if true, then immediate appropriate steps could and would no doubt be taken by this esteemed fraternity to put an immediate end to such behavior.


There are and the OP has declined to this point of utilizing them.


I really am inclined to believe this is just some crazy hoax!


As are the other Masons replying here.


All due respect, but I would be relieved to see this entire thread removed.


I disagree, I feel it should reamain for all to see how true Masons respond to what I feel is a blatant attempt to ridicule the orginization that we love and respect. We offered council and guidance to our supposed 'brother' all of which fell on deaf ears it seems.

As a side note no mention was ever made of what the District Deputy of this lodge had to offer, who would be your first recourse in a problem such as this after the Master of the Lodge. Just another reason I completely doubt this persons sincerity and honest.

[edit on 19-11-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Wow Guinness or rockpuck! whats with the nasty stuff? Problems with the obligations?
By the way, whats with the square and compass on this forum? Why are Masons posting here anyway?


OK, I've stayed out of this so far, but I feel the time has come for me to drop my two pennies.

What the hell does Guinness Stout have to do with the obligations? I mean, I prefer a nice, cold Arrogant Bastard Ale, as the Guinness is a little too thick for my taste, but I would never doubt a man as a Brother just because he drinks foamy tar in a glass (
), that's just silly.

You have really outed yourself with this post, in my opinion. For now, to me, you are an interloper, and someone who is trying to cast aspertions on the Fraternity by posting this nonsense on ATS. Even if you weren't, I'm positive a real Mason would rather go through the proper channels (even outside of this, there are many influential Masons who would stop at nothing to irradicate this kind of behavior who could be called upon for counsel), or other Masonic venues. I know that has been said several times in this thread but that's how I feel about it too. ATS is not the place if this is for real. You want to talk about Charges?
What about when you were charged never to let your zeal for the Fraternity draw you into an argument with those who would, through ignorance, ridicule it? You just set us all up for ridicule by posting this garbage, and I'm inclined to believe that was the intention.

And as far as posting the problem not being "allowed" elsewhere? It is our DUTY as Masons to protect our institution, and "monkey business" of any kind should not and will not be tolerated, and I can't imagine that if you went to a Masonic resource, such as T3P, you would be turned away, if what you say is true.

The guys that run that board are REAL Masons, and I have no trouble imagining the kind of sh*tstorm they would bring if this was true and verified. And if the Grand Lodge would do nothing (which I seriously doubt), then it would be taken up with them, and their recognition could be in jeopardy over it. No Grand Lodge wants to be "irregular," which is exactly what would happen if it were to be shown that they were turning a blind eye, or worse, condoning this behavior.

Internal business should be handled internally, period; unless the charges warrant the involvement of the authorities. Even then there would be a process and it sure as hell wouldn't involve an online conspiracy discussion board in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

In answer to your original question, I took my obligations VERY seriously, and while I am not perfect, I try to live up to them to the best of my ability. For someone to say "oh, they are just words" is offensive to me, but I am a firm believer in "to each his own," however -- to me, for someone to say that means they are NOT a Mason, I don't care how many dues cards they have stacked up in their wallet.

Where is the first place you were prepared to be a Mason? These fellows (if they DO exist) apparently weren't.


Fort Worth Lodge #148. Master Mason since December 2005. Try me.


If you want to discuss this in private, via u2u or email, I may be willing to reconsider my opinion; but as of now I think we've got ourselves a Cowan.


[edit on 11/19/07 by The Axeman]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I sincerely appreciate the manner in which you addressed my concerns.

You'll forgive my knee jerk reaction and acting very much the mother hen attempting to protect what I've come to know, respect and hold very dear.

Yep, a logical female! Go figure! haha

It was only after my emotional post, that I did read through the entire thread and came to understand what you so kindly expressed to me directly. But, I nonetheless sincerely thank you for taking the time to remind me of my logical capabilities.

I'll also look for appropriate threads to share more of my views regarding your sacred organization, I hope you'll watch for them.

Thank you again.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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Interesting, the problem being the Master of said lodge stated to the district deputy, "The Obligations are Only Meaningless Words".
The posters here for the most part agree to that with their silence.
Then, accuse me of not being a Mason, a liar, trying to defame the fraternity, wrong place to post about a lodge that have mocked the ritual and ect.
This has been interesting. For those that are merit badge chasers in the now confirmed meaningless higher degrees and have forgot from wince they came, you may now continue on. I will continue to be old school.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
I will continue to be old school.


Yeah, but what school?

Look man, nothing against you personally, I just don't believe it.

I am a Master Mason, and if I were you, I would have handled the situation alot differently is all.

I take my Masonry very seriously, as I previously stated.

The way you handled it (your actions -- or lack thereof) makes me doubt you, nothing more.

Like I said, if we discuss it in private, I may reconsider my conclusion. I may not. Depends on you, actually.

The fact that most if not all the Brethren here assembled are calling you out on this speaks volumes, also. All have tried to give you counsel on this and you seem to only be interested in Masons commenting on if the obligations are "just words." Any real Mason will give you the same answer, "absolutely not," so I don't know why you are stuck on that through this whole thread.

It just doesn't add up, guy.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by The Axeman
 


I'm sorry, but you must have been writing your comment at the same time I was replying to the other gentleman's post.

Did you say, Fort Worth? As in Texas?

Absolutely amazing! So am I! haha

"There are no coincidences! It's just God's way of remaining anonymous."


[edit on 19-11-2007 by lajansann]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by lajansann
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I sincerely appreciate the manner in which you addressed my concerns.


It is my pleasure to attemtp to answer anyones questions or concerns regarding Masonry that I am permitted to address.


You'll forgive my knee jerk reaction and acting very much the mother hen attempting to protect what I've come to know, respect and hold very dear.


No apology is needed your concern is not at all offensive.


Yep, a logical female! Go figure! haha


It would be nice if more people applied the forgotten Liberal Art of Logic to more of lifes issues such as you did.


It was only after my emotional post, that I did read through the entire thread and came to understand what you so kindly expressed to me directly. But, I nonetheless sincerely thank you for taking the time to remind me of my logical capabilities.


I think I can speak for the other Brethern here when I say that is not a problem.


I'll also look for appropriate threads to share more of my views regarding your sacred organization, I hope you'll watch for them.


I most certainly will.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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I did U2 the Axe, dont know if it worked?



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
I did U2 the Axe, dont know if it worked?


Check your "out" box. It'll tell you.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Interesting, the problem being the Master of said lodge stated to the district deputy, "The Obligations are Only Meaningless Words".
The posters here for the most part agree to that with their silence.


You presume much to equate a lack of posting as tacit agreement with your monkey business. I expect that you're being ignored as the 'situation' you describe and the stated lack of action on the part of responsible Masonic authorities flies completely in the face of the experienced Masons. Ergo, y'ain't a Mason.


Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Then, accuse me of not being a Mason, a liar, trying to defame the fraternity, wrong place to post about a lodge that have mocked the ritual and ect.


You haven't proved (and indeed refuse to prove) yourself to be a Mason because IYHO, everyone else has to prove themselves to YOU. Doesn't work that way.


Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
This has been interesting. For those that are merit badge chasers in the now confirmed meaningless higher degrees and have forgot from wince they came, you may now continue on. I will continue to be old school.


Wince indeed. Your thread is certainly wince-inducing. "Whence" is the word you're looking for. Merit badges are for Scouts, not Masons. Whatever you might be, a Freemason you ain't. The only thing "old school" is your old school trolling.

Ta ta.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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Fitts- Whatever. Axe- Ya, it says it went out.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by The Axeman
 




What the hell does Guinness Stout have to do with the obligations? I mean, I prefer a nice, cold Arrogant Bastard Ale, as the Guinness is a little too thick for my taste, but I would never doubt a man as a Brother just because he drinks foamy tar in a glass ( ), that's just silly


I to would love to know how Guinness came into this conversation???

I looked over my posts and never mentioned it, so he must be commenting on my avy for unknown reasons...


Guinness is the only beer I drink, unless someone else buys then I don't complain, but its always guinness for me. I do like the Arrogant Bastard though axe, another favorite is Old Engine Oil, a Scottish beer.. very dark, perhaps the darkest I have yet tasted. Luckily there is a small British pub in town that sells it. For an arm and a leg, and your first born of course.

Anyways.. by talking about this, and my avy, and other random nonesense he proves he is not a Mason as he is avoiding all questions and even the point of the OP its self.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Again, how would I know if anyone on this board is a Mason? Nice try anyway.
Now, anyone care to address if the Obligations are Meaningless Words?
Come on you can do it!


This is a classical spin on a very old logical fallacy: argument ad ignorantium, or "argument by ignorance." When people lose any argument and know they are wrong, they result to this. I am now confident this is a 100% ruse.

I will join with the other Masons here to ask you to identify what lodge this is - privately, if you like.

Sanford #151 North Carolina AF&AM - now whats yours?

[edit on 19-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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I stayed away from this thread because it smelled of BS from the start. But now there are accusations against a Grand Lodge and a Grand Master so I thought I would add my two cents also.

HD, if you are a Mason(I have my doubts) and take the obligation as seriously as you state, then it is your obligation to do something about this situation. The claims that you are making are disturbing if they are true(again, I have my doubts). Petition an outside Grand Lodge for an investigation. I would think any Grand Lodge would be interested in looking into your claims as they reflect poorly, no atrociously, on the craft.

Why the hesitation in divulging at least the GL in question? Could it be because your claims could be discovered to be false in a matter of hours? Why aren't you willing to state your lodge #? Why the doubt about other ATS members honesty about the craft? Read around the SS forum, you'll figure out who is and isn't quickly.

Carelton Union #8, Saint John, GLNB.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by lajansann
Did you say, Fort Worth? As in Texas?


Yes, I lived in Fort Worth for a couple of years, and that's where I was made a Mason, and I retain my Lodge membership there.

I have since moved from Texas, but I really liked Ft. Worth. Just enough City, just enough Country.


Rockpuck: I have NO idea where that came from, either. Your avatar was my assumption.

[edit on 11/19/07 by The Axeman]



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


I know this is far off topic, so you can reply u2u if you like.

What are the main differences between AF&AM and F&AM. I know of the historic aspects of how the Ancients came about, was wondering if there was an actual difference, and if you can be a member of both AF and F.

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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AF&AM, Lodge Master doesn't get to wear that fancy-shmancy top hat.



posted on Nov, 19 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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I think it has to do with the old schism between the "Antients" and "Moderns" way back in the day. I can't remember the details as I'm going from memory, but ML may be able to shed more light.



posted on Nov, 20 2007 @ 04:11 AM
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Incredible! I read in another post, a 32degree barley pop drunk, merit badge chasing Super Mason, crap on an entire religion. That is just plain wrong. Yet, he did puke out what a great Christian he is. However, a perfect candidate for the Monkey lodge, as this individual has not learned a damn thing in his journey.
As such, it is what it is. I did pass on information, of who I am, when checked out to the members satisfaction, he may need medication.
I received word tonight that the situation is further unraveling, partly because RacerX and I refuse to attend the 2 blue lodges because of this complex problem, and others "Non Monkeys" are asking "what happened".
Just as sickening as the member here condemning others religion, one must realize that bad things can and do happen with Masons.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]






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