Miracle! Holy Fire in Jerusalem doesn't Burn!

I think it is a miracle if legitimate....However it is impossible to know. Dependent upo how "good" the searches that are conducted on the priests are: However, no evidence has so far emerged to prove that the Patriarchate or worshippers at the Jerusalem event use phosphorus-dipped candles.

Good people of ATS, I am not saying that people can't do things with ordinary fire such as run their hands over a flame or do flame swallowing tricks. However, keep in mind that just because something can be done one way does not mean that it always is done that way. You can light your candle with an ordinary lighter or a matchstick or an electric car lighter, but the Lord can also ignite candles by supernatural means.

Furthermore, I know that there are people who can run their hands quickly over small flames, but some of those people were holding what looked more like small TORCHES, and they were holding those torches under their chin. That is dangerous to do with ordinary fire, and even if held only for a brief moment under or near the face will cause pain and possible injury when the flame is as large as some of those in the videos. Please don't try it. Flames that large could easily ignite the hair or beard even in a split second.

I am convinced that this Holy Fire is a miracle. It is the work of God. My perspective of life is wide enough to encompass supernatural events even in the natural world. However, I am more convinced by the word and testimony of the Holy Patriarch who actually enters into the chamber, rather than the people who are holding their hands and faces over their small torches.

Good people of ATS, go there, and see for yourselves. You will learn an important lesson -- all fire does not burn the same way.

I believe it is real. But I want to experience it myself.

I'd like to go there myself (and plan to) and test this out for myself. And I won't just run my fingers through it. I will keep the candle under my hand until 1.) Prove that it is indeed real and it does not hurt me in any way or 2.) Burn myself and hurt more inside then anything else.

But until any of us does so, we cannot sit here an instantly yell "FAKE!" We need to see it for ourselves. Until that happens, we can either believe or not believe. But no need to ridicule each other over it.

I'm not spending hundreds of pounds to go over there and see people doing what I can do in my own backyard lol

I don't know what you mean by 'not all fire burns in the same way', the fire in those videos looks pretty, uhh, fire-ish to me. I've done exactly the same thing as that guy has with the same size flame burning from a roll of paper.

He's not exactly using a blow-torch...

[edit on 7/4/2007 by malganis]

Someone should do a full body burn with that stuff for longer than a minute and THEN I'll believe it's a miracle I've seen guys hold their hands over lighters longer than that and not been burnt...

Great find!! I would love to go to that ritual, and experience that myself!!

This might be OFF-TOPIC, but yeah, ever heard of the Incorruptles? Saints who's body would never decay, and sometime produce oils that can cure wounds. If Holy flames doesn't put you in awe, then this do.

www.livingmiracles.net...

Anyone ever ran their hand through the safety flame on a bunsen burner? Do it fast enough and it doesn't burn you

HOLY JESUS IT'S A MIRACLE! ALL HAIL THE BUNSEN BURNER!

There are tricks to make miracles happen, I don't mean there aren't any, i just mean be wary of any "miracles". God doesn't forbid you to research it before believing.

(e.g. Phosphor will ignite spontaniously after being in contact with air for a while, I can name a few other readily available chemicals. It's the same with the blood that liquifies once a year.. You can make such a substance yourself. Make a few small not visible to public vibrations, et voila, the goop turns to liquid, reminds of that time it was already liquid when it wasn't supposed to, guess it got to shaken carrying to the altar lol.)

As for the fire not being hot, then why is everyone kind of moving it back and forth, or just briefly holding their hands in it.
I can do that with my cigarette lighter and not get burned.. do it fast enough not even hair will singe.

Again I'm not attacking religion, I'm not saying god doesn't exist or something like that.. I'm saying be aware that belief in god etc. can be abused.. for instance with false miracles.

But then again to be completely sure, you'd have to be there at the sepulchre and stick your hands in the fire for say 5 minutes... and see if you don't need a doctor afterwards. Also would like to see a chemical analysis.

-If a miracle is real, it wouldn't hurt it in any way to investigate, if it's real investigation would solidify the miracle, your beliefs.
People should not be apprehensive to have relics and miracles researched.. unless they doubt their own beliefs or know their miracle is not real.

For the guy that said he believes, higher plane, trust of holy men etc etc etc..
What utter hogwash, so your god gave you such a fantastic brain but doesn't want you to use it and just ignorently believe? I'm weary of anything in which man had a hand.. including those so called (though self proclaimed) holy men.

Originally posted by fullbrain
Anyone ever ran their hand through the safety flame on a bunsen burner? Do it fast enough and it doesn't burn you

HOLY JESUS IT'S A MIRACLE! ALL HAIL THE BUNSEN BURNER!

*bows down to the holy bunsen*

Seriously though, even if you believe in miracles, this is taking it too far.

This does for Christianity what cr*ppy UFO fakes do for real UFOlogists.

Originally posted by David2012
-If a miracle is real, it wouldn't hurt it in any way to investigate, if it's real investigation would solidify the miracle, your beliefs.

I agree completely that it would be a positive step to confirm genuine miracles by having them examined closely. Then ,when a miracle is confirmed to be supernatural, it should be fully and publicly acknowledged as such. The problem is that some people who do not want to believe in the supernatural will deny miracles have occurred even after careful testing and scrutiny has confirmed them. Data can be, and has been, falsified in the past. This is why we must be very wary of so-called skeptics, and we should double-check any of their alleged "findings" to make sure that the "skeptics" themselves are not hoaxing.

Originally posted by SkyWay
I agree completely that it would be a positive step to confirm genuine miracles by having them examined closely. Then ,when a miracle is confirmed to be supernatural, it should be fully and publicly acknowledged as such.

I’m more then willing to acknowledge a “miracle”. It’s just every “miracle” I’ve ever come across has been less then miraculous. If you have something else that you could point me to then I would be most interested.
Have you even tried what’s on this video yourself yet? If you have then you would see it’s not that special.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
I’m more then willing to acknowledge a “miracle”. It’s just every “miracle” I’ve ever come across has been less then miraculous. If you have something else that you could point me to then I would be most interested.
Have you even tried what’s on this video yourself yet? If you have then you would see it’s not that special.

Of course I have played with fire, like most people. I have also seen some amazing tricks that professional illusionists have done with fire. But I don't then go and over generalize that ALL asounding things involving fire are illusions. We need to be more discerning than that if we are seeking truth. Otherwise we will miss out on many wonderful truths about this magnificent thing called LIFE!

Originally posted by SkyWay
The problem is that some people who do not want to believe in the supernatural will deny miracles have occurred even after careful testing and scrutiny has confirmed them.

Do you have proof of any cases where careful testing has proved something to be a miracle and not just a trick?

Originally posted by SkyWay

Data can be, and has been, falsified in the past. This is why we must be very wary of so-called skeptics, and we should double-check any of their alleged "findings" to make sure that the "skeptics" themselves are not hoaxing.

Again, give us some real cases of where data has been falsified to debunk a 'miracle'.

Come on, what would even be the point of falsifying on this one, there's not even anything special about it. It's just a guy waving his hand around a fire, there's nothing holy about it.

Originally posted by SkyWay
But I don't then go and over generalize that ALL astounding things involving fire are illusions.


Corrected for spelling

Why then pray tell do you defend these videos?

Originally posted by malganis
Do you have proof of any cases where careful testing has proved something to be a miracle and not just a trick?

Again, give us some real cases of where data has been falsified to debunk a 'miracle'.

Most people are aware that there have been cases of manipulation of data if not actual falsification. I cannot recount every magazine article and report that has shown deliberate manipulation of research data. It isn't necessary, because most of us know it happens. Just as most of us know that there are crooked politicians and dishonest business men. That is why I say that we cannot blindly accept anything the so-called skeptics tell us. This is also why I make the suggestion that people go there and see for themselves. That's the surest way to discover the truth.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by SkyWay]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Originally posted by SkyWay
But I don't then go and over generalize that ALL astounding things involving fire are illusions.

Corrected for spelling

Why then pray tell do you defend these videos?

For the very reason you quoted from me above...to make the point that because SOME things involving fire are tricks...it does not mean that we can overgeneralize and claim that the fire recorded in the videos are tricks involving phosporous, or hidden lighters, or whatever, as some posters have suggested. This is a gross over generalization that lumps different events together. These miraculous experiences require more careful discernment than knee-jerk dismissal as mere fire "tricks."

Because i found out about this just a few days before it happend and i dont have the money or time off of work right now to go there..... i plan on taking a vacation next year....

I am going to go there...

i am going to see it...

I am going to try to burn a bible!!!....

i will record it

this will decide If its a Miracle... or a way to control the masses (my moneys on the Fake)

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by malganis
Do you have proof of any cases where careful testing has proved something to be a miracle and not just a trick?

Again, give us some real cases of where data has been falsified to debunk a 'miracle'.

That is why I say that we cannot blindly accept anything the so-called skeptics tell us. This is also why I make the suggestion that people go there and see for themselves. That's the surest way to discover the truth.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by SkyWay]

But as I said, I can't afford to go traveling around the world, especially just to see a guy wave his hand in some fire.

And also, I don't normally follow 'miracles', so no, I wasn't aware that any have been properly proven to be the work of God. Could you at least point me in the direction of a few?

Originally posted by Sad Lil Alex
Because i found out about this just a few days before it happend and i dont have the money or time off of work right now to go there..... i plan on taking a vacation next year....

I am going to go there...

i am going to see it...

I am going to try to burn a bible!!!....

i will record it

this will decide If its a Miracle... or a way to control the masses (my moneys on the Fake)

That is GREAT news! To know that you will attend such a holy ceremony. You will probably never be the same again. You will discover that there is much more to be experienced in life than the things of physical sense. A whole new universe will open up to you. That's the wonderful thing about miracles, they can convince you better than anything else. There have even been instances when people have had their candles ignite spontaneously, even before the Patriarch has emerged with the Holy Fire to light their candles.

Once you have experienced the miracle for yourself, I am sure you will not even consider trying to burn the Bible. You will probably try to understand it better after the experience.

Originally posted by malganis
But as I said, I can't afford to go traveling around the world, especially just to see a guy wave his hand in some fire.

And also, I don't normally follow 'miracles', so no, I wasn't aware that any have been properly proven to be the work of God. Could you at least point me in the direction of a few?

My point was that people should NOT believe blindly any alleged examinations by so-called skeptics or "experts" because they can falsify data when it does not support their wishes or preconceptions. If skeptics fake their data then they can deceive others into thinking that they have disproven a miracle when in fact they haven't.

There have been instances when stigmatics have been tested and found to be genuinely unexplainable in terms of scientific understanding of the laws of nature. Yet, even after such findings there are times when the data will be kept from the public or falsified and used to hoax the public. You should do a google on a seer by the name of Nancy Fowler. She has been subjected to a variety of tests by scientists and doctors and they have confirmed that she is experiencing something inexplicable in scientific terms. I also, believe that there has been a stigmatic by known as Padre Pio who was subjected to scientific tests and found that his stigmata was real an unexplainable by the known laws of nature. Seer Tested

Consider such things with an open mind, and do not be afraid to grow and admit that the experience of life is much greater than you may have believed. Do not run from the supernatural. It would be like trying to run from a part of yourself...your soul.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by SkyWay]

[edit on 8-4-2007 by SkyWay]