Atheists in America

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Judges 1:19

Iron chariots=lords kryptonite?????

For an all powerful entity I wonder why Iron chariots are his nemesis. I used to be religious until I read the bible enough times to know It does a good job contradicting itself

Luke 19

29As he approached Bethphage and Bethany at the hill called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, 30"Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31If anyone asks you, 'Why are you untying it?' tell him, 'The Lord needs it.' "

32Those who were sent ahead went and found it just as he had told them. 33As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, "Why are you untying the colt?"

34They replied, "The Lord needs it."

This is why Christians are dangerous, If the "good lord" says he needs it, it does not matter who owns it go fourth and get it. It's not always horses they go after you know.

I shoot horse thieves, and he damn sure don't need my money if he is good and great as he is made out to be. And furthur more how about some taxes on the land that churches sit on, they above all can afford it!

George Carlin has it right, even the best B.S.'er has to stand in awe of religion.

My, my. Didn't mean to piss in anyone's cornflakes.

By stating that followers of The Way shouldn't concern themselves with "worldly" aspects of Christianity, is this somehow inferring that I overtly SUPPORT homosexuality, the removal of God from the public square, abortion, etc..?

So, because Madness doesnt believe in Jesus/the Holy Spirit, does that mean Christians should just "kick'em to the curb"? This is precisely the reason so many folks (athiest or otherwise) are so guarded about Christianity. It's about LOVE no matter what, and Judgement is reserved for God. What if Madness took my words to heart, and later on "converted"? (sorry Madness...I'm saying this as a hypothetical thing to make a point, PLEASE dont take offense) Am I "kissing his Godless ass" by being kind to him? By trying to make my faith an inclusive thing, rather than some exclusive type of club? Should I instead act like Pharisee, and push people away from the Word, taking away the key of truth and allowing no one else in?

Isaiah was right.
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

Originally posted by Essedarius
Jesus was crucified because he was NOT JUDGEMENTAL ENOUGH according to the religious establishment at the time

LOL!!!!! Have you ever even picked up the NT and read the entire thing? Every word?
It's obvious you haven't. You are speaking from total ignorance here. That makes you an ignoramus. No offense.

Not judgemental enough?
How about the Pharisees had him put to death because he claimed he was the Son of God.
Please do your homework next time.

Originally posted by Essedarius
...he was called out for..........claiming that he was around to make the road to heaven a lot SIMPLER than the organized church was making it out to be!

Now I know you're "lost".
Duh! Duh! Duh!!
The Church didn't exist until well after Jesus died.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Please another response. I need a really good laugh.

[edit on 7-2-2007 by rocknroll]

You didn't piss in my cornflakes,

I don't think you should turn people away at all. Just spare me the recruitment and the fire and brimstone speeches from the guys wearing signs when I go to a concert. I don't want or need saved as I am right with myself in my heart, I adhere to morals some "church goers" don't care to. I have no respect for people who peddle religion like vacuum cleaner salesman. If you don't fit those categories then we can have a beer some time and I will buy. My corn flakes are dry.

Originally posted by eyes2see
By stating that followers of The Way shouldn't concern themselves with "worldly" aspects of Christianity, is this somehow inferring that I overtly SUPPORT homosexuality, the removal of God from the public square, abortion, etc..?

You tell me.

Originally posted by eyes2see
So, because Madness doesnt believe in Jesus/the Holy Spirit, does that mean Christians should just "kick'em to the curb"?

Nope. Just turning the other cheek would suffice. He's made his view known. Who mentioned "kicking"?

Originally posted by eyes2see
What if Madness took my words to heart, and later on "converted"? (sorry Madness...I'm saying this as a hypothetical thing to make a point, PLEASE dont take offense) Am I "kissing his Godless ass" by being kind to him? By trying to make my faith an inclusive thing, rather than some exclusive type of club? Should I instead act like Pharisee, and push people away from the Word, taking away the key of truth and allowing no one else in?

Jesus distinctly told his followers to turn the other cheek to non-believers;
to people that denied He was the Son of Man. This is Madness loud and clear.
Would you like me to dredge up this line in the bible when Christ encountered those who belittled Him and didn't believe He was who He said He was. Where he told his followers to basically tune these people out?

Originally posted by eyes2see
"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

Your the one following with lips. My heart is with the Word of God. I'm walking the walk, not just talking. Quit bending the rules to suit your own beliefs.

Jesus said, "You are either with me or against me."
That means no gray area in between (where you are).
Madness has made it clear he's not for Jesus. I'm for Jesus.
So are you with madness or me?
Are you a true follower of Christ's words? Yes or no?


[edit on 7-2-2007 by rocknroll]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. We (my family) are a family of scientists and we are all atheists. One of us has lost a job due to discrimination.

Under Bush, America has been less than it was intended to be by the men who fought for it in the 18th century. It's sad that the president of this country is so blind to what it really stands for in principle.

Bravo, submitter.

Originally posted by rocknroll
Have you ever even picked up the NT and read the entire thing? Every word?
It obvious you haven't. You are speaking from total ignorance here. That makes you an ignoramous. No offense.

um, i'm going to have to agree with Essedarius here
i've read the entirety of both testaments twice
and it seems like the pharisees were awfully angry about "jesus" not being judgemental enough

How about the Pharisees had him put to death because he claimed he was the Son of God.
Please do your homework next time.

well, they saw it as blaspheme
blaspheming and being judgemental are two sperate things

The Church didn't exist until well after Jesus died.

church is a general term for a religious establishment
not just a christian one

Please another response. I need a really good laugh.

and this is why decent christians like Essedarius get a bad rap
because people like you demean others who have different views on religion

Strike another mark for madness

Am I a follower of Christ's words? Let's review some of His words shall we?

Luke 6:27
But I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Somehow, this thread went from "Athiests in America" to some kind of "preacher pissing contest", and I will have no more part in it.

Madness, remember what I said earlier and feel free to shoot me a u2u anytime.

eyes2see, you're right

let's start with the segment itself

they have 3 people present
1 jewish female
1 christian male
1 christian male

that's already a bad sign
no atheist

then you get to them talking, and none of them step up to defend atheists
the best comment we get is summarized as "what they say is trash but they should be allowed to say it"

a very balanced panel indeed...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and it seems like the pharisees were awfully angry about "jesus" not being judgemental enough

Oh, they wanted Him to follow their earthly traditions. But He was beyond that. But, they were angry because He made them look like idiots in front of their own people in the temple and in public squares. He cut them off at the pass (verbally) at every trick they had up their sleeves. He could talk circles around them, and yet they were supposedly "holy" men. They had him put to death (through the Romans) because he did the forbidden, He claimed He was the Son of God, and they had Him crucified. Why? Because he spoke the Truth. He literally did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
well, they saw it as blaspheme
blaspheming and being judgemental are two sperate things

Okay, so they had him executed (technically, by the law back then) for blasphemy.
They weren't happy with what He did to the Temple either.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
church is a general term for a religious establishment
not just a christian one

Okay Madness, here you go again...
then why is the very first defintion for church: a building for public Christian worship
Look in the dictionary for me. It's the first definition.
When I say church, I mean the Church (of Jesus Christ). The one His very first 12 apostles started rolling.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and this is why decent christians like Essedarius get a bad rap

LOL! Madness, I know why you think he's decent, okay?
Because he doesn't know what he's saying. He's a little off.
He needs to read, brush up. But he's on the right track, sort of.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
because people like you demean others who have different views on religion

To you it's demeaning him, to me it's enlightening him.
He sounds very lukewarm. I've been there.
No offense Esse.

r&r
you're right, christian church is the first definition
but that isn't the ONLY definition
but i'm not here to argue petty semantics

back to the point
what is the deal with this segment?
why is it so darn biased?

Originally posted by eyes2see
Luke 6:27
But I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also

I love you guys! I don't care if you hate me for adhering to God so closely. I wish you all the best anyway. And I'll pray for those who condemn my beliefs. Kick me and kick me some more. I'll just keep standing right back up again.

Originally posted by eyes2see
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

As a Christian I'm allowed to criticize your behavior.
I am not allowed to judge your salvation. That's up to God when you meet Him.
I haven't condemned anyone to Hell.
And I forgive you for the negative things you have said regarding God and his Christian followers.

Originally posted by eyes2see
John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Precisely, which is why you all need to get a little closer to Him. Stop twisting His word to fit your own beliefs. Follow the words of Christ, not your fellow man.

Originally posted by eyes2see
Somehow, this thread went from "Athiests in America" to some kind of "preacher pissing contest", and I will have no more part in it.

Well, I'm an artist, so where's the preacher? And who's tinkling?

Madness loves debating with me.......


[edit on 7-2-2007 by rocknroll]

well, nobody else will answer madness so I guess I will give my two cents. I think the deck was stacked against us for the simple fact of well, facts. The common media in general knows that it is dangerous to bring an educated atheist into a debate like that because it limits their use of faith in the argument. Without faith clouding judgments and relying only on what you know as science, you are likely to make someone who lets faith in something unseen and only spoken of look well brash to say the least. Not to mention the "trash" we shouldn't be allowed to say

i think CNN may take a tiny bit of flack over this
and if they do they may use the "we couldn't find an atheist" defense

i bet you plenty of educated atheists were available
hell, richard dawkins and sam harris would jump at the opportunity to talk about this stuff on CNN

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i think CNN may take a tiny bit of flack over this
and if they do they may use the "we couldn't find an atheist" defense

Well, you're right they must have.

They are repeating the segment tonight (8pm EST) and replacing the bigoted panel with a Richard Dawkins interview.

Thanks for the update melatonin, I will most certainly check it out. I wonder if they are going to have people do the video conference thing and talk loud so as not to let Richard have a word in. Let's see how good they take it on the chin, Richard has got enough jabs to go around. He is a great guy to have up there but once again comes the question, why the uneven panel. They should have 1 or 2 Christians in there. They probably couldn't find anyone that wanted to go toe to toe intellectually with Dawkins, and if they did it'll be some Rush Limbaugh type who uses volume and interruptions to make up for their biased views. This will be nice!

This is just rubbish.

“If there is no God...
People who believe that there is a higher power, and found solace and direction in that belief, have evolved past those that have decided instead to cling to the grim and desolate reality that life holds no real meaning.”

If your life would have no meaning unless there is a God, then it seems to me that your view is the grim and desolate one.

“If there is a God...
People who believe that there is a higher power clearly have a more defined and evolved sense of the universe.”

People can be right on one point without having “a more defined and evolved sense of the universe.” If you believe in God/s and He/they do exist, then you are right, but that does not necessarily make you superior. The same goes for being an atheist if God does not exist. It means you have staked out your claim on the correct half of a debate; you are no more highly evolved than a football team that happens to call the coin flip at kick-off.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
does anyone else find it odd that CNN would have an entire panel discussion on atheists in america, yet have 2 christians and a jew for the panel?

I do wonder why they aren't far and balanced like Fox News. You get both sides with Fox. You may have already done this but why don't you email the producers of the shows on CNN and ask why they are slanted in that way. I agree with you in that everybody should be heard so the viewers can make a choice rather than having something slammed down our throats.

By the way you show great passion and deep thought for an 18yr old. Keep on seeking the truth and you will find it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
— The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams, and unanimously approved by the Senate.

[edit on 2/6/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Well, first of all, your premise that the US was founded on the idea of seperation of church and state because there were people who didnt want religous influences or were atheists is wrong.

The reason there was seperation of church and state is because there were about 50 versions of protestantism in america by the time of the revolution. These people, for the most part, wanted their own communities and their own religions to run them. So they agreed, in order to make one nation out of many colonies, to not have the federal government favor one religion over another. However, there was nothing indicating that individual states could not favor their particular religion. So seperation of church and state applied to the federal government, not to state governments.