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Atheists in America

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posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:09 PM
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i'm going to explicitly state the conspiracy from the get-go
that atheists are being discriminated against (and in more extreme cases persecuted) while the general american public turns a blind eye to the situation

here's an interesting segment from CNN
it's in 2 parts, and is about 10 min long
it includes a transcript

here is the mindset i think really hurts the movement towards atheists being treated like the rest of americans
from the transcript

HUNTER: I think they need to shut up about crying wolf all the time and saying that they're being imposed upon.


the problem is that we believe that we are being imposed upon

sure, you could say that we are a christian nation.. but i can counter that



The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

— The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams, and unanimously approved by the Senate.

a national proclaimation that we are not a christian nation

now, it seems that this whole "atheists just need to sit down and shut up" mentality is infringing upon the rights of atheists

what is behind this conspiracy?

[edit on 2/6/07 by madnessinmysoul]




posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:24 PM
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Im an atheist, have not gotten much ridicule for it either. I do live in a pretty dense melting pot though.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by R3KR
Im an atheist, have not gotten much ridicule for it either. I do live in a pretty dense melting pot though.


well, i'm here in the midwest
bible belt and all
but i'm in st. louis, where it isn't as bad
i don't get as much overt stuff about
but that's mainly because of my age (18) so people just give me that whole "youre going through a phase" bs



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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does anyone else find it odd that CNN would have an entire panel discussion on atheists in america, yet have 2 christians and a jew for the panel?

2 people that don't support church state seperation and an ESPN analyst?

here's a quote from another site doing a story on this story:


So, when the discussion begins, we're told it's about whether or not atheists are discriminated against. We hear from 3 different theists, two of whom basically argue that atheists deserve harassment for causing "trouble" and discriminating against Christians by, you know, enforcing the Bill of Rights. The only one defending them basically argues that atheists are wrong and offensive, but should be granted basic rights anyway 'cause we give everybody rights, no matter how deluded they are. Gee, thanks. That's like arguing that dark-skinned races are inferior, but they should still be treated like real people because they can't help who their parents were.


here is BSreport's story on it

doesn't it just sicken you that CNN would prove the point that americans are this prejudiced against atheists?



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
does anyone else find it odd that CNN would have an entire panel discussion on atheists in america, yet have 2 christians and a jew for the panel?

I don't find that odd at all. It sounds typical of the sneaky tactics our media likes to play. I found it odd when "Passion of the Christ" was released and most of the critics reviewing it in the media were Jewish. Things like you speak of do not surprise me at all nowadays.


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
doesn't it just sicken you that CNN would prove the point that americans are this prejudiced against atheists?

Well, I'm not atheist so it doesn't bother me at all.
What sickens me is people who don't believe in God.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Well, all I can say about athiests is that they are entitled to believe whatever they like. I personally think they are incorrect,but, hey, we are all incorrect about something.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
...it seems that this whole "atheists just need to sit down and shut up" mentality is infringing upon the rights of atheists


What rights of yours do you feel are being infringed upon?

It sounds to me like you are not asking for rights, but respect.

It's a hard situation though, when your beliefs are diametrically opposite to someone else's.

I completely respect your right to believe what you want to believe...but I'm a Christian, I believe there's a God...that kind of puts a certain limit on just how "eye to eye" we can see, doesn't it?



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
What rights of yours do you feel are being infringed upon?


freedom FROM religion
that is a right that i have
yet there is god on my money
god in my pledge
why do i have to acknowledge "1 nation under god" to pledge my allegiance to a country i love?



I completely respect your right to believe what you want to believe...but I'm a Christian, I believe there's a God...that kind of puts a certain limit on just how "eye to eye" we can see, doesn't it?


not really, our beliefs are only opposite in theology
we share similar morality
hell, i'll even acknowledge that some of the stuff in the bible is worthwhile either philosophically or morally

the only difference between you as a christian and me as an atheist is that i exclude 1 more god from my beliefs



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
not really, our beliefs are only opposite in theology

The problem is, madness, you have NO theology.

Atheist: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings
Theology: the study of the nature of God and religious truth



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
freedom FROM religion
that is a right that i have


But if you get your way, then my rights to have a God are trampled on.
And, with all due respect to Atheists everywhere, I'm not willing to turn my back on my beliefs to make y'all happy.

I think a religion-less society is commonly seen as a "happy medium" by Atheists...but it's not really. That's an Atheist society.

(And I do see that, here in the U.S., we live in a Christian-weighted society. I see that. But again...I'm a Christian...I like it that way! If our roles were reversed would you fight for equality?)


the only difference between you as a christian and me as an atheist is that i exclude 1 more god from my beliefs


Again, one god here or there doesn't mean a lot to an Atheist...to you it's like conceding that Mickey Mouse doesn't really exist.

But to me, that one God...well, He's a really big deal to me. Not saying that we can't be friends if we believe differently...but I am saying that we couldn't be friends if you insisted that I NEVER mention religion. It's no big whoop to you, but it's a deal breaker for people who believe.

I think your life would be made easier by Christians who respect your point of view and can discuss it logically without insulting your intelligence. Am I way off?

My question for you is: Do you really want to have an amicable relationship with religious folk?

Because when I read the first sentence in your signature, for example, I don't get the vibe of someone who who is sincerely looking for a respectful dialogue.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
.....I don't get the vibe of someone who who is sincerely looking for a respectful dialogue.

You would be correct. Madness, is an atheistic antagonist, he inhabits this forum almost solely to deny the existence of God and Jesus. He abhorrs religion and will argue til he's blue in the face that Jesus was a myth. Trust me.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by rocknroll
He abhorrs religion and will argue til he's blue in the face that Jesus was a myth.


Well, if you believe the New Testament, that's pretty much the only kind of people that Jesus hung out with, right?

I think there's something to that.

I'm not the best "cheek turning" Christian anyway, so I probably shouldn't throw stones regarding the tactics of others.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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Madness, I don't agree that atheists are persecuted so to speak, but I do believe religion should be totally separated. Let individuals believe in an invisible man in the sky, that doesn't mean the United States Government should have a thing to do with it.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
Well, if you believe the New Testament, that's pretty much the only kind of people that Jesus hung out with, right?

What? I have not a clue what you're talking about.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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I've grown up in a catholic family, but am agnostic at best. And I've always been curious about the fear of religious people to have the word God taken off money or out of the allegience. So Essedarius could you explain why it'd take away your right to have a God if things happened such as these examples or there were no 10 commandments in courtrooms. It seems like religion flourished long before America put them in. In fact I think the pledge is rather recent. So what is stopping you from practicing religion if this scenario comes into play? Surely no one would stop you from praying or from going to church. Again, I'm just looking for you to explain your stance on that. I don't mean to argue, I'm just curious since I can't really see it from your side.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by rocknroll
What? I have not a clue what you're talking about.


Boy if I had a nickel for every time I heard that.

My point (which was admittedly overstated) is only that Jesus never attempted to avoid people who held different beliefs than he did...that he gladly sat and responded to very aggressive attacks from many people who literally wanted to kill him.

You pointed out to me that madness has a tendency to be antagonistic toward religious types...and I was only implying that a little antagonism can be good for the soul.

I still don't think I've made my point very well...it all made such perfect sense in my head...



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Madness, I don't agree that atheists are persecuted so to speak, but I do believe religion should be totally separated. Let individuals believe in an invisible man in the sky, that doesn't mean the United States Government should have a thing to do with it.


i do not believe atheists are typically persecuted, there may be rare cases of it, but it is far from the norm (well, in this country)
i do, however, think there is a culture of discimination and bigotry towards atheists


Originally posted by rocknroll
You would be correct. Madness, is an atheistic antagonist, he inhabits this forum almost solely to deny the existence of God and Jesus.


i've postulated the existence of god and/or "jesus" for the purpose of several threads....
i discuss many other things, i don't just discuss FST and CiR



He abhorrs religion


as i have every right to



and will argue til he's blue in the face that Jesus was a myth.


now, that is just a lie
i haven't argued that "jesus" was a myth
i've argued for the POSSIBILITY that "jesus" was not a historical figure
the problem is, that whenever christians see that threat they take it as a full scale assault on their religion

i'm actually 50/50 on the historicity of "jesus"

and so what if "jesus" was a myth?
i still agree with some of his teachings, and i'm an atheist



Trust me.

i don't trust people that oversimplify situations and smear me as some sort of bigot that does nothing but attack a single religion



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by zooeyglass14
.......could you explain why it'd take away your right to have a God if things happened such as these examples or there were no 10 commandments in courtrooms. It seems like religion flourished long before America put them in. In fact I think the pledge is rather recent. So what is stopping you from practicing religion if this scenario comes into play? Surely no one would stop you from praying or from going to church.

Hmmmmm, IMHO people who love God with all their hearts don't like seeing him removed from anything. We love God, we see him in everything. He's everywhere. He made everything. He made us. He made you. And this is the thanks he gets? No gratitude, huh?

The 10 commandments....great rules to live by. From God above himself. In courtrooms for many years.
Why take them out? To please people that don't believe in God?


The pledge? "One nation under God". Is there something wrong with that? Frankly, I love having God on my side. And I would think God would have no problem with knowing we think that much of him that we acknowledge it. God knows about "kingdoms" on earth, so we're just saying, "Hey God, we Americans love you." Is that painful to say? Does it actually hurt to utter those words? Now, if you don't love God, well that's your choice. But don't force people who believe to have their love for God stripped out of all facets of awareness to please a few unbelievers.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
freedom FROM religion
that is a right that i have


But if you get your way, then my rights to have a God are trampled on.


you can still have a god, just not through the expenditure of tax dollars
removing "in god we trust" from currency won't affect your religion, will it?
or will removing god from the pledge suddenly cause you to not be allowed religion?



And, with all due respect to Atheists everywhere, I'm not willing to turn my back on my beliefs to make y'all happy.


we don't want you to, we just want you to keep it to yourselves a bit



I think a religion-less society is commonly seen as a "happy medium" by Atheists...but it's not really. That's an Atheist society.


again, we don't want NO religion (well, we'd like it, but it would go against what we believe in to force it upon you) we just want religion to not be something that's on money or in the pledge or in schools



(And I do see that, here in the U.S., we live in a Christian-weighted society. I see that. But again...I'm a Christian...I like it that way! If our roles were reversed would you fight for equality?)


well, as a white man, do i fight for the rights of the other races?
yes
as someone in the middle class, do i fight for the rights of the less advantaged?
yes

so i guess i would fight for the right of free excersise if we were a majority atheist country



But to me, that one God...well, He's a really big deal to me. Not saying that we can't be friends if we believe differently...but I am saying that we couldn't be friends if you insisted that I NEVER mention religion. It's no big whoop to you, but it's a deal breaker for people who believe.


well, it's different than that
it would be like asking your atheist friend for $50 to donate to gideon's
i pay taxes, the government shouldn't have religion



My question for you is: Do you really want to have an amicable relationship with religious folk?


my 2 closest friends are devout christians (presbyterian and catholic)



Because when I read the first sentence in your signature, for example, I don't get the vibe of someone who who is sincerely looking for a respectful dialogue.


well, i do want respectful dialogue
however, i just was a bit flustered by the sheer idiocy of having a discussion about atheists in america without including A SINGLE ATHEIST on the panel, so i may have come off the wrong way



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
Boy if I had a nickel for every time I heard that.

My point (which was admittedly overstated) is only that Jesus never attempted to avoid people who held different beliefs than he did...that he gladly sat and responded to very aggressive attacks from many people who literally wanted to kill him.


Okay, I got ya now. I read it wrong. My mistake.



Originally posted by Essedarius
You pointed out to me that madness has a tendency to be antagonistic toward religious types...and I was only implying that a little antagonism can be good for the soul.

Trust me, if Jesus was here posting on the forum he would have turned his cheek on Madness by now. About 10 threads ago.......LOL!



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