Atheists in America

alright
i thought this was simple
i found a horribly anti-atheist spot from CNN
then posted a thread on it
wanting a general discussion of the segment and the releated subject matter
and here i get nothing of the sort

let's go back to basics
what did everyone think of the CNN segment?

oh, and an update
CNN had Richard Dawkins come pay them a visit on Thursday
if anyone can find a link to the segment, i'd be very happy if they posted it
if not, i'll just find it on my own

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

As an ex-(extremely devout) Christian, I can say what perhaps some people here cannot. Since sunday school, kids are taught that Christians are the minority, and that need to be on guard to protect themselves... not just from Atheists, but ALL OTHER Theists. It might have been just my church, but I'm pretty sure that message is spread like wildfire.

I can assure you that your church was not an exception to the rule. I remember many things from my Sunday school that looking back trouble me a great deal. I remember in particular before Halloween the preacher promoting a Christian friendly Halloween party and encouraged everyone not to go out with any of the other children because, they were "satins children"


On another occasion I remember him talking about taking his sons new super mario brothers game and burning it because somewhere in the manual it said king koopa used black magic so it was of the devil. I'm sure the developers in japan with a population that is 84%Buddhist was trying to slide one in on the Christians.

I remember that we sang "I'm in the lords army" everyday. Now I can here some people state, big deal it's just a kids church song. I say if there is a army there must be a enemy.

I also agree that there is a major effort to drill into every childs head to bring friends to church, they even gave out toys to kids who brought other new kids to church, granted they were the cheap Bag-o-china yoyos and the like but a reward system none the less. Sunday school bothers me more than anything, for the simple fact that they are taking kids open to the power of suggestion and trying to mold them before they have knowledge under their belt. If a kid reaches the age of 18 and desides hey, I like this religion thats fine by me but 6-10 year olds haven't learned enough to form their own opinion, none the less know the benefits/repercussions of their decision. How would you feel if your son or daughter said I'm going to go to sunday school with billy to learn about worshiping cows, and can we stop having beef for dinner? Same idea, different religion and I doubt many parents would be too hot on the idea.

I also have heard Christians talk about starving people in India, and point out (not necessarily in a bad way) "well you know they worship cows ". As if to say well, if they would just give up their religious convictions they could eat steak every night for dinner. I might agree with this but in the same token I have no beliefs there for I am not the pot calling the kettle black. They have every right to believe what they wish though, and I would say the mathematic probability that when we die we will be judged by holstien cattle, is equal to the probability that there is a entity somewhere unseen that watches all we do, listens to everyone that prays to him. If so it is quite the multi tasker.

I can say that down in buckhead (in atlanta near where I live) every day there is a mass congregation every sunday. And all the patrons "comandere" any parking spot they see fit. I am happy to say that alot of the neighborhood had signs made that say NO CHURCH PARKING!!!!!!, I guess the tow truck driver that hauls any off is going to hell unless he sees the error in his ways and repents.

By all means people can believe in anything they want but but when their beliefs infringe upon other people beliefs or lack there of, it is a problem. If you think I'm going to hell, thats cool but when you start yelling I'm going to hell UNCOOL! Atheists just want to live a decent life without having other people beliefs infringe upon the way they live it. Without being looked down upon because others religious beliefs draw them out to be a bad person before any idea of what kind of person they are can be established through common means. I feel it's safe to say the lack of convictions makes for less problems than a presence of them.

[edit on 10-2-

[edit on 10-2-2007 by shizzle5150]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
oh, and an update
CNN had Richard Dawkins come pay them a visit on Thursday
if anyone can find a link to the segment, i'd be very happy if they posted it
if not, i'll just find it on my own

CNN postponed it in an effort to solve the Anna Nicole Smith death that day.

It will now be shown on monday (unless another z-list celeb dies I guess).

I think that Athiests are hardly noticed in America. I think CNN is just using that topic to get controversy and ratings.

I didnt see the article/program on CNN as I hardly watch CNN anymore.
I doubt that I would have watched it anyway even if it was on any other channel.

As to the Anna Nichole buisness..I hardly think it newsworthy. WE all had a good laugh last week with the Woman Astronaut drama going on in the news only to have it eclipsed by the Anna Nichole drama of such monumental importance in our daily lives. Some of us are calling all this drama recently "Shock and Awe." It is the very best our media can do lately.

Well I think the Woman Astronaut was not that important either nor newsworthy. But it does get ratings to put people on the string.
I fully expect to be bombarded by the pulp magazines at the check out stands for about a year on both topic lines to verify this...long after the major media have sifted it for every bit of drama they can get.

By the way Shizzle..I dont bother with Halloween, Nor Easter, Nor Christmas, Nor birthdays. I gave them all up when I realized what a bunch of cheap merchandizing they have made of our lives for lucre. There are other reasons but somewhere I decided to step off this treadmill and I am glad I did.
It simplifys alot of things in my life.
Thanks for reminding me.

Orangetom

Sorry madness, I do get sidetracked like everyone else, In reference to Dawkins on CNN, what are everyones takes an not having a Christian on with Dawkins ? I guess it could be because

A. CNN didn't want it that way.

B. The Christians didn't want it that way.

C. Dawkins didn't want it that way

I strongly doubt it was C. as dawkins usually jumps at the chance to have a civilized debate but in the same token maybe dawkins knew fully well that there wouldn't be a grain of civilized in it when the other party takes the stance that you shouldn't even be able to spew the "trash". For someone who holds the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, he has some pretty good "trash".

I think A. most likely, Seems to me evangelical Christians (not all but certainly quite a few) use the Oriely/limbaugh tactic of being loud and interruptive when the opposing side makes a valid point that they don't want to hear, none the less think about how it impacts their side of the argument.

I also ask Christians here if they support the notion that atheists arguments are "trash" and we should not be allowed to present our side of the argument?

I would like to point out that in Massachusetts being atheist is illegal source possibly Maryland but there is some grey area there sorce

granted However, the US Supreme Court in Joseph Burstyn, Inc v Wilson 1952 held that the New York State blasphemy law was an unconstitutional prior restraint on freedom of speech. The court stated that "It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches or motion pictures."

That still does not stop a over the top religions cop from arresting you leaving the only recourse of the legal system.

Is it fair to say that these laws should be removed... or would that fall into the trash section?

[edit on 10-2-2007 by shizzle5150]

Originally posted by shizzle5150
Is it fair to say that these laws should be removed... or would that fall into the trash section?

well, i see it as perfectly fair
what if i end up moving to one of these states and want to serve it by holding public office?
i have my citizenship, i spent most of my life in the USA, and i'd call myself an American

also, the ESPN analyst (yeah, nice experts CNN) said something that essentially compared atheists voicing their opinions to "all those other groups that need to shut up" which i thought about
is he comparing us to hate groups like the klan?
or is he saying we're not that bad of "trash"?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
also, the ESPN analyst (yeah, nice experts CNN) said something that essentially compared atheists voicing their opinions to "all those other groups that need to shut up" which i thought about
is he comparing us to hate groups like the klan?
or is he saying we're not that bad of "trash"?

"all those other groups that need to shut up" is a horrible thing to say, I don't care if it's the KKK. Not that I condone them, but to say any group needs to shut up creates a precedence of shutting up things that the government doesn't like. I think ALL groups have a right to be heard even if they are as bad as the KKK. That's the constitution and violating it on anyones account is unacceptable.

I'm an Athiest for the record, then again, I live in Australia where about 90% of the population are also Athiest.

I dont necessarily condone the traditional view of the KKK types either. Little use for it but I would like to hear what people like David Duke have to say whether I agree with it or not. If I dont like it or want to listen I leave or use the remote controller. It is just that simple.

Ive been giving some thought to your post above concerning the law still on the books in Massachusetts. An Intresting law of which I did not know was still on the books. Thanks for this info. I am thinking that Massachusetts is predominantly a RCC state is it not? I could be incorrect about this but I believe the RCC has a great hold on this as well as other states.

I bring up this view in context of a book I purchased at a yard sale some years ago titled " Seperation of Church and State in Virginia." This book was written some time around 1890 or so but was a very intresting read for some of the little known data concerning what the various colonies were up to before the forming of the actual United States and after the Nationhood. It appears that there were states in which churchs ,as they did in Europe, tried to make themselves the official church by state decree. The Episcopalians in some states the RCC in others. Most of the colonies and states were savy enough not to go along with this but nonetheless the churchs tried it.

The state has no buisness regulating peoples beliefs or non beliefs. It is a personal matter. I suspect that those laws you quoted go back some ways in time and are not very enforcable.

I have been told that in Europe there is or was a tax collected in some nations for the state church or for certain churchs. I think this is reprehensible. Irresponsible of the state...the church too.

The government has no buisness collecting taxes for the church nor granting subsidies/price supports by tax deduction for giving or tithing to the church. My opinion is that the government has no buisness working with the churchs in this manner. Nor the churchs with the government.
Such collaboration on both parts is not seperation of church and state. Theyh are in bed together on this. This to me is one of those double standards of which some of you athiests so loudly decry. Ironically this one is being done by both the governments and the churchs.

I will go so far as to declare that a preacher/minister has no buisness handlng marriage licenses for the state. This makes the preacher/minister a licensing agent for the state..again not seperation. Double standard while claiming seperation.

I wonder why they do not teach about this type of double standard of the church and state in public schools. It should be taught for what it is.

Thanks for the info on the Massachusetts law.

Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999



I will go so far as to declare that a preacher/minister has no buisness handlng marriage licenses for the state. This makes the preacher/minister a licensing agent for the state..again not seperation. Double standard while claiming seperation.

Go so far? I think being reasonable sounds better for me, that is a job for clerks, not clergy!

The state has no buisness regulating peoples beliefs or non beliefs. It is a personal matter. I suspect that those laws you quoted go back some ways in time and are not very enforcable.

I agree %100 but if a law is on the books it can be technically enforced, even if it won't hold up in court, it's still a potential device to cause trouble in an atheist's life and should be nixed

I wonder why they do not teach about this type of double standard of the church and state in public schools. It should be taught for what it is.

There are alot of other fields that leave something to be desired, I think peoples rights are not given %10 of the value and weight they should have in education.

I'd love to read Seperation of Church and State in Virginia, sounds like you found a real gem at that yard sale. I get lucky every once in a while but have had a dry spell lately.

As for the RCC question, I think this provides a pretty good answer link