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Originally posted by Providence
I hear Christians complain about how they are treated all of the time. Hell, just check out Fox news every once in awhile, you'll see tons of stories about how Christians are being shunned. And what about Muslims? I hear them complain all the time about how people are stereotyping them. And have you read the holy scriptures of Judaism?
Originally posted by thehumbleone
Atheist need to get over themselves, they're th biggest cry babies I know.
And why are Christians trying to always force their beliefs on others?
The thing I don't get though, is why do atheists always try to force their beliefs on me?
Amen.
If i want to believe in God, let me believe in God.
And how are Christians any different?
The last thing I needs are fools telling me what to believe.:shk:
It is hypocritical to sit here and deride atheists for all of these things when theists are guilty of the exact same thing.
Originally posted by Providence
I'm sorry, but that doesn't logically follow. How does being Christian necessitate that you entertain one non-Christian possibility but no others?
This is one of the main problems with Pascal's Wager. The possibility of Christians being right is 1/n whereas n equals all theistic possiblities. Pascal lazily presumes that n equals 2 without ever giving an explanation or an argument for that case.
The assumption that there is no benefit to being an atheist in a world in which no God exists. This is ridiculous considering the fact that an atheist in this view could enjoy all of the wordly pleasures that a Christian life would deny.
[Jesus] said himself that his teachings would divide families and cause conflict, that his followers would have to carry a difficult burden, that some of them would be martyred, etc.
Originally posted by thehumbleone
Atheist need to get over themselves, they're th biggest cry babies I know.
The thing I don't get though, is why do atheists always try to force their beliefs on me?
If i want to believe in God, let me believe in God.
The last thing I needs are fools telling me what to believe.
Originally posted by shizzle5150
Another interesting piece of info, have a look at the mean I.Q. in contrast to % of people who feel religion is important by country.
Originally posted by Essedarius
So, just to be sure I understand the insult correctly, you're saying that people who believe in God are dumb, or we just don't test well?
So, just to be sure I understand the insult correctly, you're saying that people who believe in God are dumb, or we just don't test well?
Originally posted by shizzle5150
Further more I found it particularly interesting how the U.S. was quite the anomaly in contrast to the trend.
i'm saying that simple logic doesn't stem from the bible
it stems from the mind
orange
if you're going to continue to talk about paper money defrauding the public, do it in another thread
i don't see how it pertains to any discrimination against atheists
But if you don't even believe that atheism is a possibility, then the wager is moot.
Originally posted by EssedariusI don't entertain the others any more than I entertain the infinite amount of disasters that could befall me and mine when I walk out my front door in the morning.
I am discussing the possibility of Atheism on this board because I want to understand other's points of view, not because I believe it for a moment.
He made far more presumptions than that, and didn't bother to justify them. Hence, I say he did so lazily.
Pascal didn't LAZILY PRESUME dick...Pascal explored the probable outcomes in a situation where there are only TWO variables. GOD (Yes, No) and BELIEVER (yes, no).
But all of his presumptions assume that, even if theists aren't right about God, they are still pretty much right about everything else (for example, that atheists can never be truly fulfilled). Pascal's Wager starts with the assumption that the theistic life (whether God exists or not) is more valuable than an atheistic on. Pacal's Wager has nothing to offer anyone who doesn't already agree with its conclusion.
He himself admitted (maybe LAZILY, I don't know) that he never intended for the "wager" to be a rock-solid theological platform. He said he hoped it would simply get people to consider the ramifications of their beliefs during a time when not many people were doing that.
I doubt it. For every religion that could "argue the same way," the Christian's chances of cashing in on their wager decrease. For example, if an Imam can argue the same way, then the Christian's chances become 1/3 instead of 1/2. Once again, the chances of the Christian winning the wager are 1/n where n equals the number of possibilitires. Pascal's Wager assumes that n equals 2; however, if any other religion can argue the same way, then this assumption is false.
So I guess, Pascal would clap his hands and say SUPER if an Imam argued the same way.
Nor is that a necessary component of what I was saying. Of course there are things that are forbidden in Christianity (like murder) that wouldn't be conducive to a happy life if you did them. There are others, however, that Christianity forbids which (at least my opinion) could bring happiness. For example, being able to marry someone you love, even if they aren't a Christian.
I've known, pretty intimately, people who have operated on that very assumption, and not a single one would tell me that they feel fulfilled. Personally, I think it's ridiculous for you to imply that one could really improve their life with some good lies, whores, and murders.
Of course not. Then again, of all the atheists I know, I don't know a single dishonest adultering murderer.
Again, have you tried being a dishonest adultering murderer? That lifestyle is not exactly family friendly, is it?
These are all part of Pascal's original assumptions, he doesn't actually go about providing proof for them. He starts with the assumption that the theistic life (whether God exists or not) is more fulfilling than an atheistic one, and concludes with much the same notion. Pascal's Wager only "makes a point" if you already agree with his conclusions. It doesn't actually offer any reason for any non-Christian to ascribe to his assumptions.
Pascal's Wager makes EXACTLY the point it was intended to make:
Living a life without any regard for what comes next does not offer enough benefits to outweigh the risks.
He made far more presumptions than that, and didn't bother to justify them. Hence, I say he did so lazily.
You have voted Providence for the Way Above Top Secret award.
Of course there are things that are forbidden in Christianity (like murder) that wouldn't be conducive to a happy life if you did them. There are others, however, that Christianity forbids which (at least my opinion) could bring happiness. For example, being able to marry someone you love, even if they aren't a Christian.
Originally posted by Providence
But if you don't even believe that atheism is a possibility, then the wager is moot.
Originally posted by Landis
Atheists own their behavior. People who believe in gods hide behind them.
One thing you cannot call atheists is hypocritical. We don't espouse virtuous behavior under the protection of a god and then practice the opposite.
Originally posted by Essedarius...I simply don't think it's legitimate for them to brag about not being theological hypocrites...
Originally posted by Landis
Originally posted by Essedarius...I simply don't think it's legitimate for them to brag about not being theological hypocrites...
The point is that we don't hide behind a belief or institution. We don't have the luxury of misbehaving, then receiving forgiveness via a personal belief.
We own what we do, make no excuses, invoke no great protectors.
Being responsible without the "safety net" is very liberating.
Originally posted by orangetom1999...This is sophistry. Responsibility is responsibility..it is never liberating....it is responsibility..it is never ...Optional. Responsibility is a load..a burden..work...thats why it is responsibility. It is not status.
Your statement however does make good politic and as is often done in sophistry.
Essedarius does make some good points in thier posts...
Originally posted by orangetom1999
This is sophistry.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Responsibility is responsibility..it is never liberating....it is responsibility..it is never ...Optional.
Essedarius does make some good points in thier posts.
Originally posted by Landis I am a slave only to what I choose to be a slave to. No gods direct my choices. That is a freedom no theist has.