To John Lear-Existence of the Dulce Facility

And as for Dulce, for something that apparently has, what, six levels, where do all the workers come from? Where do they live? Surely they need some sort of transport to get to the base? Hell, even the Groom Lake crew fly on a Janet Flight, which everyone knows about, including the terminal they depart from. Any answers to that question John? How about simple logistics like food delivery (I'm presuming they feed their staff?), waste removal, pens and paper, power generation, water production etc. The construction staff who built this fairly large facility, what happened to them? Even if they got whacked at the end of the project, they needed to have a base somewhere. And family and friends. Carpeters, painters, cleaners. Building (and running) a base this large takes people, and lots of them. Any ideas where they are?

From memory, the lower levels - at least 3 of them - are run by aliens, so you're only accounting for 3 levels of staff and maintenance - not 6.

Look, I agree, one would think of the vast number of people required to man and run a project like this - we should be able to find at least one. But at the same time, whether or not you believe Dulce exists, I think we can all agree that Black Projects exist. Some of these Black Projects must centre around high technology, and many of them must require large amounts of staff to run.

The point I'm making is this: while there should be many people working in such a facility, and while it should be possible to find one if not some of those people, the government is very good at keeping secrets, and clearly it's also very good at forcing the people working for it to keep secrets.

Or do you not believe that any Black Projects exist? That's okay if you do, all are entitled to their beliefs, I just think if you can believe that one large and completely secret project could exist, then another could exist just as easily.

Originally posted by Willard856

The U.S. Military has literal 'armies' of cloned human beings both male and female.

Riiiiiiigggggghhhhhtttttt. And yet Iraq is going so badly. Maybe instead of sending 20 000 more troops, Bush could simply get some of the clones into the action...

Willard, that's hardly a rebuttal. It's quite obvious to me that the PTB do not want "victory" in Iraq.

I absolutely know black projects exist. I just don't think Dulce is one of them. Again, even if the people don't talk, there has to be some form of physical evidence that they work in a secret base. Unless they teleport in, which is about as believable as the existence of a joint US/Alien facility. No, I simply cannot believe that after all these years, and all the effort that these "researchers" put into trying to expose Dulce, that not a scrap of evidence has emerged.

Speaking of which, I see our friend is still struggling to get their secure website running. And AlanP is still out to lunch...

Not a rebuttal? Why, if you had "armies of clones", wouldn't you try and win the war in Iraq? Hell, take over the world even. Sorry, but the clones comment is just another John Lear sensational claim with zero evidence. But it's a conspiracy, isn't it?

I know what you're saying about the clones, and there's no argument from me there. You could speculate that the clone armies are preparing for an invasion of Iran - or even offworld fighting battles against aliens. Who knows. It's fun to speculate, but doesn't really get us anywhere.

What I don't get is this: You're certain that Black Projects exist, yet you have no evidence of them (as far as I'm aware), and yet you don't believe Dulce exists because there is no evidence of it. Seems a bit contradictory.

As I say, anyone's welcome to believe what they like, but if your reasoning for not believing in Dulce is a lack of evidence, then you shouldn't believe any Black Projects exist. Unless you have some evidence I don't know about.

Originally posted by Willard856

Maybe instead of sending 20 000 more troops, Bush could simply get some of the clones into the action...

There is a strong possibility that that is part of the plan.

People, you can't site something that you can't prove exists as evidence that their is a base at Dulce.

Willard 856, its deja vu all over again. Have you read anything about Dulce other than on this thread?

And as for Dulce, for something that apparently has, what, six levels, where do all the workers come from?

Many come from Hoboken, New Jersey. A few from some of the southern states, Georgia, Alabama.

Where do they live?

Some commute, some live in the trailer park behind the Best Western Jicarilla. Some stay with friends.

Surely they need some sort of transport to get to the base? Hell, even the Groom Lake crew fly on a Janet Flight, which everyone knows about, including the terminal they depart from. Any answers to that question John?

Some of the employees of Groom Lake take Janet flights. Many do not. The workers at Dulce use underground trains for the most part. Some drive in. Some fly in. I think some float in.

How about simple logistics like food delivery (I'm presuming they feed their staff?).

There are food machines on the third level but no change machine and the machines are always empty. Some brown bag it most order out. Either Domino's Pizza, KFC or Pollo Loco. The money is left on top of the air vent. The delivery boy is asked to just drop the food down the vent.

waste removal[

Liquid waste is pumped to nightmare hall for nutrition. Solid waste is transported out by NativeAm Services. It is a three year contract.

pens and paper

Albuquerque Wal-Mart.

power generation, water production

Navajo dam for both generation and supply

The construction staff who built this fairly large facility, what happened to them? Even if they got whacked at the end of the project, they needed to have a base somewhere. And family and friends. Carpeters, painters, cleaners. Building (and running) a base this large takes people, and lots of them. Any ideas where they are?

Nightmare Hall, level 7. You won't hear from them again.

Originally posted by johnlear
Either Domino's Pizza, KFC or Pollo Loco. The money is left on top of the air vent. The delivery boy is asked to just drop the food down the vent.

Which is considerably possible considering I'm in the military, and work in the aerospace field, where black aircraft projects are a common thing. So I have no problems with the existence of black projects. What I do have a problem with is all these people who come out and say that a secret US/Alien base exists underground at Dulce, with no apparent physical security in place, where hikers can stumble on air vents, but no-one can tell me where it is, or answer any of the questions I've asked in my last couple of posts.

I can tell you that Groom Lake supports black projects (plenty of website discuss this), and that Janet Flights are needed to get contractors and support personnel to the base. I can tell you bus routes into the facility. There is heaps of evidence that the base exists. But nothing for something like Dulce. It would be impossible to run such a facility without some kind of evidence existing, even indirect evidence. All we have is fanciful claims, and people who have such an overwhelming compulsion to believe in this stuff.

The fact that this thread is going, some nine pages after AlanP made claims about the base, and we haven't had a shred of what could be remotely described as evidence produced, shows just how badly some people want this to be true. And hey, good luck to anyone who can produce evidence. But for those who perpetuate disinformation, I find it sad that people need the attention so badly that they make these claims, and that there are people who accept such comments willingly and without question.

It's deja vu because the same ridiculous claims keep on coming up. Your response proves that you have nothing. To your credit you acknowledged this way back on page three or so, but people still seem to think that what you say is gospel.

I've read plenty on Dulce. They all go back to a number of original sources, that have helped to perpetuate the myth, as well as people such as yourself who intimate that you know stuff, but can't go into details (usually because they don't want to compromise their source, they need copywrite protection, blah blah blah).

We're here to deny ignorance. Consider me on the side that helps to maintain this goal. As I said, I'm happy to be proven wrong on the existance of Dulce. But nine pages down, on a thread call Existence of Dulce, and there is still nothing, not a scrap. Except for more ignorance.

By the way, I was under the impression that knowingly posting false information on ATS was against the T&Cs of the site...

I certainly agree that nothing should be accepted without questioning - but at the same time it's important that things aren't dismissed out of hand, otherwise the baby goes out with the bathwater.

I think the comparison we're looking at here is becoming less and less apt. After all, in one we're talking about Black Projects at an acknowledged base and in the other a Black Project that is an unacknowledged base.

You can find evidence that people are going to Groom Lake, but can you find any evidence that any of the projects being developed there are black? I think it's very dangerous to make blanket statements about what is and isn't possible. I don't disagree that it would be extremely difficult to maintain an operational and fully staffed project like this with no evidence - but I wouldn't say 'impossible'. For one, we can only think of 'possible' in terms of current technology - and whether or not Dulce exists it's generally accepted that military technology is at least fifty years ahead of public technology.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the nature of black projects is that officially they do not exist - so by their very nature we shouldn't be able to find evidence of their existence. Saying that any black project does not exist based on the fact that no evidence of its existence can be found is somewhat flawed.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by TheStev]

True, but it works both ways. The fact that no-one can provide a lick of evidence regarding Dulce can also be explained by it not existing. But the fact remains, I'm not looking for any evidence that shouldn't be readily available to those taking the time and effort to track this place down. And for something that has been a myth for over twenty years now, nothing has come to light. People are claiming to know how many levels the place has for crying out loud.

Edit: Oh, and as for Air Force black projects that have come out of the black, I recommend the book Dark Eagles, and for other black discussion check out the Dreamland Resort website.

Dreamland Resort

[edit on 22-2-2007 by Willard856]

Originally posted by TheStev
And I would imagine the US government (or whichever subdepartment is responsible for projects such as these) is about as concerned with spies taking photos of the Dulce door as they are with spies taking photos of the 'Restricted Area' signs outside of Area 51. Just how much information do you think a spy is going to get from a photo of a door?

The point is without a Restricted Area, the location is NOT Secure. Anyone from anywhere can enter the Area.

Why does noone seem to understand that!

Ok, while we're at it, why not move the whole project from Dulce to Andrews AFB. MD?

I'm a bit disappointed that noone here seems to get it!

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
The point is without a Restricted Area, the location is NOT Secure. Anyone from anywhere can enter the Area.

Why does noone seem to understand that!

Tim

Which seems more secure, Area 51 or the Dulce Base?
Putting up restricted area boundaries just lets people know where the secret stuff is. I believe that the most secure place is the one no one even knows for sure to exist. Sounds like Dulce among other places...

Originally posted by Ghost01

Why does noone seem to understand that!

Ok, while we're at it, why not move the whole project from Dulce to Andrews AFB. MD?

I'm a bit disappointed that noone here seems to get it!

Tim

Yes, why indeed? You might want to look at that a little bit more....

Let's do more than put up restricted signs. Let's put up yellow 'do not cross' tape around the perimeter, and put big ol signs that say 'restricted-this place does not exist' and have a parade of Wackenhut henchmen marching around the place 24/7 along with loud low flying helicopter cover.

Oh for crying out loud people. You do not have an alien/US facility that anyone can find. It is stupidity in the extreme to think so. Think about it this way. Get yourself and as many conspiracy friends you can find. Form a line that extends across the whole of New Mexico, and walk from one side to the other. Someone is going to come across the entrance. And as such the base is compromised. It really isn't anymore difficult than that. And that is why you don't hide stuff in the open, because of the risk of compromise.

And no-one has provided any answers to my previous questions. Come on, stop answering the simple questions of why you can't find it, and try some hard ones for a change. But I guess most of you don't want to think about the option that the place is simply the figment of some over-active imaginations...

Originally posted by Willard856
Think about it this way. Get yourself and as many conspiracy friends you can find. Form a line that extends across the whole of New Mexico, and walk from one side to the other. Someone is going to come across the entrance.

The government won't let you do that. You'd be trespassing private property before you got there.

And they would probably get you for parade without a permit.

Originally posted by Willard856
Oh for crying out loud people.

No need to come all unglued Willard856. We are just having a nice quiet discussion on Dulce. I belive the facility exists from the testimony of 6 people:

Dan Burisch
Bob Lazar
Thomas Costello
Mr. XX
Gabe Valdez
Alan Parker

3 of these people were in the facility itself:

Burisch
Costello
Mr. XX

While their stories might not be good enough for you, and I can certainly understand this, their stories are good enough for me. Relax and enjoy the thread.

Hi John, the company I was reffering to was Bechtel.

The individuals were:
George Schultz (board of directors)
and
Casper Weinberger (general counsel and vice president)

Have you ever come across Bechtel as being involved in the construction of the underground bases?

Originally posted by Koka
Hi John, the company I was reffering to was Bechtel.

The individuals were:
George Schultz (board of directors)
and
Casper Weinberger (general counsel and vice president)

Have you ever come across Bechtel as being involved in the construction of the underground bases?

I don't know of any underground bases they have built but they sure have built a lot of hangars and buildings for the government. I thought I had a book on the history of Bechtel but I can't find it right this moment.

The government won't let you do that. You'd be trespassing private property before you got there.

If that's the case, then why not put a perimeter around it with guards to make sure that people who don't give a toss about the law can't penetrate into the base? You've pretty much invalidated the entire "in the open" argument right there.

Not coming unglued at all John. I often react like that to people who can't do basic thinking for themselves, and immediately accept as gospel everything that is presented as fact.

And as for enjoying the thread, I certainly am. Between AlanP, the other guy who claimed to have pictures, and the absence of any meaningful discussion (especially regarding the questions I posed), this thread is the best evidence yet that Dulce is nothing but the figment of some overactive imaginations.

Hey John,

Just wondering - what did Bob Lazar say about Dulce?

Thanks in advance