I’m coming clean on Extraterrestrials

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Sleeper's philosophy reminds me of the Nazi's and "shower time".

Immelmann, could you please clarify this statement and how it fits into the Scientology philosophy you are trying to peddle on this thread? Thank you.

[edit on 27-1-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Sleeper's philosophy reminds me of the Nazi's and "shower time".

Immelmann, could you please clarify this statement and how it fits into the Scientology philosophy you are trying to peddle on this thread? Thank you.

Fits into Scientology philosophy? It doesn't. It is my own personal concern questioning the group sleeper works for-- we have no idea if their goals and ideologies are to help or not.

With all the lying and problems we have seen directly or indirectly from ET, it's hard to be sure if sleeper's superiors are looking out for our best interests.

And John, you never responded to my points further back...

EDIT: Sleeper's philosophy implies we shouldn't really seek control of ourselves and our planet as it is all a divine plan. And it also implies, that keeping humans in a boxed state is ok. His philosophy also states, that child sacrifice, evil leaders, and the other thing he said above-- is actually ok because they deserve it. This is absolutely horrible. Does this clarify this statement for you comparing that ideology to Nazi shower time?

[edit on 27-1-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

And John, you never responded to my points further back...

Please restate the points Immelmann thanks.

John, the point you didn't respond to was this after you made fun of my name saying Illumi before my screename.

Quote: "Illumi... John- if I were that, why would I be on ATS talking about freedom? I'm not one of the badguys, and I know you aren't either-- I give you a lot of respect.

Here is my source you ask for: www.scientologyhandbook.org...

This chapter should address most."- Me

What are your thoughts on this?

Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by KREATOR

Thank you sleeper.I have another question,in your experience is sleep paralysis triggered by the ETs?

More so than most people want to believe, but so that I don’t get slammed by the medical professionals I will only say that some are and some are not---yet the doctors have no idea what causes it, perhaps living near a pond of swamp gas---lol

i used to wake up with it, not a fun feeling. i dont know/(remember maybe) the cause, but it hasnt happened in a few years. maybe its nothing, maybe i scared them, maybe im a better passenger now, lol

______~~

[edit on 28-1-2007 by moderndayHanSolo]

Hi Sleeper,

I've heard some harsh words on this thread lately. I suppose some folks here like to think that God is like a kind and helping ever-forgiving father figure, who'll never let you down. But, what if God is more like a hard and stern military prison warden, who is ready to send you straight to hell?

Maybe God would say,

"Thirty days in the hole!"

Next, "Fifty lashes!"

Next, "Crucify him!"

Next, "Keelhaul him!"

Next, "Lets nuke 'em!"

Next, "Reincarnate him in Paterson, NJ."

Next... (On and on into eternity.)

I've head them say, "If they act like animals, then shouldn't they be treated like animals." But, do you think it is justifiable to treat innocent animals like guilty animals. Can any animal or human be guilty or innocent? They are, aren't they, after all, just what God made them to be?

So, does God make some folks evil just so that he can send them all to hell? Does this make any sense? Is God the creator of these evil human/animals, or where they created by a process that God washed his hands of long time ago?

We'd like to know what you think, or maybe Milton would like to make a comment? Everyone is invited to put their 2 cents in.

Thanks again.


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by muse801
Thanks Sleeper,

Yeah, ok, no calvary rescue here, no post ex deux machina, or whatever the hell that is....

God in the machine? Well, I suppose the whole Universe would just simply be a machine, if it didn't have a soul, right?

So what do you think?

Does the Universe have a soul? Or, is is just one big machine?

I think I know what Milton would say. Sleeper?

What would I say? Well, if God doesn't have a soul, then we'll just have to create one for Him. Same applies to the Universe. If the Universe doesn't have a soul, then we'll just have to create one for it. We can get started right away, just in case! We'll use a scientific method which is foolproof.

(That's what my theory and plan is all about... )

But, I suspect Milton will say that God is the soul of the Universe, and he already exists. But, if Miltion doesn't give us irrefutable proof, should we just take his word for it? Or should we proceed with a plan of our own, a human plan?

And I hope to be there with you when we bring this plan to fruition!


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that I would respectfully request that you quit posting excerpts from the Scientology handbook on sleepers thread. With all due respect for your religious leanings I respectfuly request that you start your own thread touting that religion. Respectfully, thanks.

Hello John,

Thanks for your comments.

I hope you are not directing that statement to me. Folks might think that because your comment follows my post.

The "Institute for the Evolution of a Savior", of which I am the founder and director, is not a religious organization. It is a scientific one. I like to use strictly empirical scientific methods.

And, I personally feel we don't need freaking aliens to help us to achieve 'Ultimate Survival' for our species and mankind in general. We can do it all by ourselves. (No offence intended Sleeper, but you said you are an alien, right.)

I always enjoy reading your comments.

Thanks again.


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by Rudolph_X
Hello John,

I hope you are not directing that statement to me. Folks might think that because your comment follows my post.

And, I personally feel we don't need freaking aliens to help us to achieve 'Ultimate Survival' for our species and mankind in general. We can do it all by ourselves. (No offence intended Sleeper, but you said you are an alien, right.)

No, Rudolph_X I was not directing my statement at you. It was clear that I was answering a post by Immelmanium. (sp?)

While I don't personally classify aliens as 'freaking' I do enjoy your posts.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Rudolph_X
Hello John,

I hope you are not directing that statement to me. Folks might think that because your comment follows my post.

And, I personally feel we don't need freaking aliens to help us to achieve 'Ultimate Survival' for our species and mankind in general. We can do it all by ourselves. (No offence intended Sleeper, but you said you are an alien, right.)

No, Rudolph_X I was not directing my statement at you. It was clear that I was answering a post by Immelmanium. (sp?)

While I don't personally classify aliens as 'freaking' I do enjoy your posts.

Hi John,

Thanks for clearing that up. I really appreciate it.

Thanks again.

No Rudolph John Lear isn't protesting your religous ideas but most certainly is with mine. Secondly, I haven't made fun of John once in this thread-- and he continues to misspell my screen name as a mockery-- but that in itself is his choice, and he takes the responsibility-- that's fine.

Thanks John for respectfully asking me to stop-- but that is a double-edged sword you're wielding-- you know it and I know it-- and i'm not going to address these concerns anymore with you. I've supplied you with plenty of data from that book-- and shown you what else to read that will make sleeper's tale that much more beneficial and inspiring.

I'd like you to, instead of rolling your eyes at my philosophies, to address my main concern here-- what if, Sleeper's superiors, don't hold our best interests at stake here. What if, this whole "testing ground" for human souls is a farse, and is based upon a terrible terrible decision by those in the past.

If you're going to present information that 99% of the population has no idea exists, you have to show people the right direction to solve the problem-- or offer them some sort of positive outlook and direction.

You both talk about soul collectors. You both talk about what's beyond our planet. You've both been ridiculed, and John-- you've been both ridiculed and hailed since the 80's correct?

The truth is not gloomy-- it can appear that way-- but it isn't. You can do something to change it.

And John, not only is saying Scientology is bunk irresponsible-- but without researching the material-- and then still saying it is stupid or rolling your eyes at it or "respectfully" asking me to stop-- is moronic.

The same government construct you seem to talk so negatively about-- has the same gloomy philosophy you and sleeper possess. It is apathetic, and bored at best.

Don't listen to a lot of the nonsense philosophy in this thread; there is hope yet; and ET only has control if you let it.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
And John, not only is saying Scientology is bunk irresponsible-- but without researching the material-- and then still saying it is stupid or rolling your eyes at it or "respectfully" asking me to stop-- is moronic.

I don't believe I have said Scientology is bunk. I have read several of LRH's books and I went through a considerable amount of auditing. Although I think the main goal of the Church of Scientology is money I think Scientology is as good as any other religion. For instance, Scientology suggests that we get rid of our engrams through auditing (at $100 bucks+ an hour) whereas in another religion all it costs is a few hail Mary's. Considerably cheaper I think you'll agree. All I ask is that you stay on topic. This thread is not Scientology vs. sleeper. Its just about what sleeper has to say. Thanks.

Ok, and you have a right to make that statement. With that said, you know by you saying that, there will be some sort of minor conflict. Same goes for anything-- when two ideas are different, there is a disagreement. We can stop arguing that point, even though we both disagree.

The reason I wanted you to read the advanced book is because it discusses the soul in depth-- showing how the information was gathered, the many sources, and brilliant points. Thus, explaining how sleeper's statements are not only theoretically plausible, but stated fact. In a world where you have to battle for credibility, I understand your viewpoint with little knowledge on this subject (yet). If you'd like to discuss this further and still hold on to that viewpoint-- U2U me and we can discuss in-depth, something I haven't done on ATS.

With exposing certain truths, you expose yourself to more advanced information that ties into it-- be prepared. If you'd like to stay on topic of sleeper's story and only his story-- ok. To me, this is a foundation for later, and i'm fine.

My problem, is this that you didn't yet respond to: "what if, Sleeper's superiors, don't hold our best interests at stake here. What if, this whole "testing ground" for human souls is a farse, and is based upon a terrible terrible decision by those in the past."

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
No Rudolph John Lear isn't protesting your ideas but most certainly is with mine. Secondly, I haven't made fun of John once in this thread-- and he continues to misspell my screen name as a mockery-- but that in itself is his choice, and he takes the responsibility-- that's fine.

Hi IamnomanasIamallman,

Well, I'll tell you, spelling, or writing out your username here, is a heavy cross to bear. Its like asking some one to keep writing, "IamanidiotAnidiotiam," over and over, folk just won't do it. Its like you want to implant some kind of suggestion into peoples minds, the old fashioned way. It reminds me when my teacher made me write, "I will not chew bubble gum in class." 100 times.

Is that some kind of Scientology brainwashing technique, used to implant the message, "I am no man as I am all man" into their subconscious. Honestly, that's what it seems to me. I don't believe that that is something L. Ron Hubbard would stoop to do. He was too decent a man for that.

Seriously, lots of folks simply find it hard to spell that name. And, to use a name like that is sort of a disservice on the other poor fellows who have to try to read it and then spell it out everytime they want to address you, especially when most have a hard time typing. My opinion is you should have chosen your username more wisely. That's my opinion.

I've enjoyed reading some of your posts. But some are too hard, and you don't seem to want to let go of hoisting some of your ideas on folks who simply don't want to be involved with Scientology because of the stigma attatched to it. You know the mass media did everything they could to ridicule and discredit L. Ron Hubbard. That's why folks shy away from it, because they don't want to get painted with that same brush, of being called a kook or whatever.

If you are a professional agent provocateur working for Scientology then what you are doing here is unethical. If you are a free agent, working for yourself, you should make posts telling of your own ideas and not rely too much on quoting Scientology handbooks, because most folks are afraid to be caught reading them, out of fear of ridicule. Hardly anyone can afford to get involved with Scientology because of the ridiculously high costs involved. Most folks are poor, and never even bought one book in their lives, so how could you ever expect for them to pay? No one wants what they can't afford. You should know that. I don't want to preach, so I'll cut it short.

My cold hard advice: Shorten your username. Shorten your posts, and keep then grammatically clear. Use a less agressive tone, and be kinder to folks who disagree with you. Keep your Scientology indoctrination materials, links to Scientoloty handbooks, etc., to yourself, and talk straight from your heart about your own opinions.

Thank you for your comments and best wishes.

I always enjoy hearing from you.

Thanks again.


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

I want John to respond to my quoted question above. This isn't for John, it is for Rudolph. John and I are done discussing this for now-- I want to hear his opinion on the above quoted.


Rudolph:

I explained my position in the above post concerning the first/second paragraph.

I am a free agent who is a Scientologist who sees a gigantic need and a wondeful engine: ATS.

To critique myself, my level of professionalism hasn't been perfect-- but i'm not here on ATS on a crusade. I want to inform those that want to be informed, and silence suppression when faced with it... but most importantly-- i'm here to have fun and talk with the legend-- Lear, and his friend, Sleeper. I know the validity of both. Their data is correct; parts of their philosophy I strongly disagree with.



So Rudolph, you said you want me to speak from the heart. I ask you to find out this information for yourself-- my paraphrase doesn't do any of thi justice. But Rudolph, I will talk from the heart:

We originally come from an area of perfection and immortality free from matter energy space and time. For trillions of years we have been faced with the same decisions and same problems over and over again; only forgetting and being implanted with false purposes and goals from soul collectors. There are stations all over for the collectors. Earth is a no-fly zone-- yet many still don't care-- hence sleeper. Our original captors are long gone-- and probably won't be coming back. The problem with the world is it has lost it's ability and responsibility. We have forgotten our true nature. Because many don't have a grasp on suppression, responsibiliy, ethics, and ability-- we are doomed unless we change things. Man has developed nuclear weapons-- and the clock is ticking.

We live in a society where insane men are allowed to rise to power. This is not true for every country, but many.

We live in a world where religion still starts wars, children still die of famine, and psychiatry is drugging up millions of children-- and the stats are going up.

We live in a world where truth is ridiculed, and true power is hard to come by. We live in a world where many forgot the struggles of those that fought WW2-- and the reasons why blood was shed.

We live in a world where Adolf Hitler-- the suppressive being-- was faught and defeated-- yet many still have no idea how to spot such a being to ensure we never have to fight another. We live in a world where the insane are treated terribly-- and the insane become insane by connections to suppressive beins.

We live in a world where salvation isn't some long time away, but a reality that can be yours now through proven steps. We live in a world where true happiness can be yours-- where problems can be solved-- where suffering can't last for the unfortunate.

We live in a world where you can smile, knowing you are influencing and on your game-- 100%. The game is on, and it's not just being won on Earth. A few hundred years from now, you'll all know about all this. So Sleeper, thanks for laying a good foundation.

Rudolph, that's from the heart-- and need I not say where I got this information or the inspiration.

[edit on 28-1-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Thank you for those comments.

Well done.

We all do what we can, and as my father used to tell me, "Let your conscience be your guide."

I've got to let the material sink in before I can make any comments on it.

Now let me ask you a question.

Do you believe that the existence of a 'Savior' such as the one symbolized by the word "messiah" or "christ" is within the realm of life's evolutionary potential?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

Thanks again.


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

Originally posted by Rudolph_X
Do you believe that the existence of a 'Savior' such as the one symbolized by the word "messiah" or "christ" is within the realm of life's evolutionary potential?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

Thanks again.


[edit on 1/28/2007 by Rudolph_X]

I'll try to answer as clearly as I can with my knowledge. A yes or no answer doesn't explain it fully. I personally believe Jesus, if he really existed in the form we know via the bible, was an extremely enlightened and spiritually free individual. I do not believe he was the son of God. i don't believe in a "God" with a white beard and white gown. I don't know God, but I think it to be an area of bliss, or all of us as one-- I don't know yet. But I do believe the "God" of the old testament to be a very angry ET. And the new testament "God" to be an answer for how Jesus all of a sudden became free of the block that holds us all back as humans. Jesus got rid of his reactive mind-- the rest as they say, was history.

Where he learned how to do this?-- Asia. Buddhism or some form of it. Which is why he didn't pop on the scene until his early 30's. I'll try to find a reference for this claim asap.

I did the whole prep/catholic school thing... and have friends whos parents are extremely high up in that whole sector. Even some who's parents share and work towards the exact opposite of what I plan to do. I've had some conversations with individuals that are complained about on conspiracy sites-- even gone head to head, played my game, whatever you want to call it-- i've learned a lot through these experiences. Unfortunately until I get power, I won't be able to talk about these experiences; many in my circle would know and that would be unpleasant.

To focus on just the question you asked-- it is uncertain to know if there is "divine" messiah, in the form of sent from God, but I do believe many beings have the potential to be followed as a messiah. One can clearly look to history to find such people. I could be wrong, I don't say my opinion is fact, but what i've learned so far doesn't show there is going to be some "messiah"-- I personally believe any such being has already seeded the planet with the material needed. The supplementary beings are probably being sent here now

The game we all face is Earth's game-- who will control it. The bad guys who think they are the good guys, or the good guys who the bad guys think are the bad guys. It's a mess; and as sleeper points out-- it is BIG.

It isn't just Earth-- it's the freakin universe. Business is fun and all-- but the real fun is in playing a game of such enourmous magnitude.

Does this clarify Rudolph?

And just for poops and giggles (I can't be serious about these concepts or ET past a certain point... gotta lighten up ) I don't want the world to be like this one day: www.youtube.com...

[edit on 28-1-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

I have learned to scroll right past Iamnoman's posts...I suggest most of you do the same. It's one thing to discuss what Sleeper is putting out there in Sleeper's thread. it's another to constantly think the we all need 'saving' by someone who *knows the truth* just by listening to it.

No one is making you read this thread, Iamnoman, and I (for one) would appreciate it if you would stop trying to make it your personal Scientology debate. I echo John's suggestion of you going and making your own thread elsewhere and let the rest of us enjoy Sleeper's story and ask our questions in peace.

Deny ignorance....

Hydden