Today a girl told me that I was going to hell.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by spines
Humble myself to a book that has been edited, if not written, by the hands of men?

Yes, now you’re getting it.

But wait, I thought you pressed that it was the word of God...but now you agree with what I said about written and edited by the hands of men.

I don't think that we are on the same page with what I am trying to convey with this one but...alright then.

Originally posted by kinglizard
Hate can be found in the hearts of men not in the true words of God.

You took a quote entirley out of context. I stressed more then once in that response that it is not the bible which spawns these things but the interpretations by men.

I said exactly what you said just then. Unless you are agreeing with me I think you misread.

Originally posted by spines
I realize that not all who follow the bible hate others because of it (like yourself lizard, you do not fall into the following). Thank you.

How am I hating others?


I said that you did not fall into the catagory which I then went on to describe. I never said you were hating others...in fact I specifically used you name so you would know that I was implying that you do not hate others.

Originally posted by kinglizard
How am I expressing morality by deferring to the Bible?

I will answer that with a quote from just above (please correct me if that has been interpreted wrong on my end):

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by spines
One can not always turn to the bible for answers to questions that require rational thought.

One can ALLWAYS turn to the Bible. It’s Gods word, for that reason it is the most RATIONAL place to find Gods direction.

---

Originally posted by kinglizard
Please tell me how I’m passing negative “moral judgements” by wanting to know what God told his children?

Man oh man do you get worked up. You should go back and reread my words and this thread.

Like I said, I excluded you from the group of people whom I was discussing. I was not attacking you and not worked up.

True, it saddens me to see such beautiful words used to justify violance and hatred but I never aimed that at you.

Maybe we should both read a bit more carefully before we respond.

One more time for the record: I stated that it was not you who is quilty of what I was saying. I hope that is clear to you now and if it isnt let me know.

[edit on 12/17/0606 by spines]

Oh man I'm truly sorry, it seems I misinterpred or misread your words.

Guess I am the one that needs to go back and reread your words.

Originally posted by spines
But wait, I thought you pressed that it was the word of God...but now you agree with what I said about written and edited by the hands of men.

The teachings of Jesus (God) are written in the NT....so it is the word of God, not to mention it being divinely inspired.

[edit on 12/17/2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
The teachings of Jesus (God) are written in the NT....so it is the word of God, not to mention it being divinely inspired.
[edit on 12/17/2006 by kinglizard]

Confused. What exactly does "written in the NT" mean?

Please forgive my ignorance.

NT = New Testament = God's Word

Originally posted by kinglizard
NT = New Testament = God's Word

why is it the word of god?
is it because god says the bible is true?

it's all a matter of faith, so it can't be used as evidence unless you're in a situation where the bible's truth is postulated

The Bible is a book of facts.

The question is "Do you have enough faith to believe these facts?"

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why is it the word of god?
is it because god says the bible is true?

it's all a matter of faith, so it can't be used as evidence unless you're in a situation where the bible's truth is postulated

Ah, a philosophical point I have been waiting to bring up. Now seems as good a time as any I suppose.

The usual end to any theological debate is when a party throws out: The bible is the word of God. Therefore, if the bible says it is true then it must be true. (Ha, that is a mouthful)

The main problem with this argument is that it presupposes god's existence. It is a circular logic and therefor can not be a valid argument by the side presenting it. Furthermore, it is an argument which can not be refuted by the side which opposes it.

Let me try and explain:

A true believers faith in god's existence is far to strong to faulter under a philosophical pit-fall such as the one illustrated above. And beacuse of this we are presented with a brick wall of theological debate.

Either side left with nowhere else to go; having brought the debate to the very end of its possible run: God. As it is here that compromise is not available...only 'conversion' to the belief system of one another is left. And more often then not, that option is not a viable one.

It is best to just not bring up this philosophical point at all. It is the one argument which can truly 'stalemate' a theological debate.

I hope I have explained what I think in this regard suffeciently. I ask you to read what I have written more then once before responding.

Truly understand what I have said before you throw a criticism at me. I am not insulting either side of this argument. I am merely presenting to you my thoughts on this 'debate killer'.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why is it the word of god?

It’s the record of Jesus and his teachings, his words, his guidance and love…I believe Jesus speaks the word of God, I believe Jesus is the son of God.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
is it because god says the bible is true?

God is truth and the bible is his record, his divinely inspired record.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
It’s all a matter of faith, so it can't be used as evidence unless you're in a situation where the bible's truth is postulated

I don’t understand what you are saying or questioning here friend.

Anyway, I’m not trying to provide anyone with evidence of my faith if that is what you are saying; I’m just expressing it, sharing it with those that will listen. I’m sharing my experiences, my encounters, my brushes with God; I’m sharing his word, his teachings and his truth, the same truth that can be found in the Bible.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The purpose of the site you have listed is to keep you from the truth.
WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHES.

And since the Bible also predicts the coming of a multitude of "false prophets" near the "endtime," this is another reason I have made carefully defined distinctions between Faith, Religion & Organized Religion. Faith is the true thing, whereas Religion is an attempt to define how Faith works, whereas Organized Religion is just another group of people who want to exhert control over other people.
Since I do see differences between those terms, I try to make sure I use the term I mean in the context of what I say or write.

Or to put my definition of Organized Religion more adroitly...

Originally posted by cavscout
The swine will only twist the truth to try and trap you, emboldening and further hardening their hearts.

Originally posted by kinglizard
This doesn't mean that we shouldn't point out sin as in your support for homosexual relationships, clearly God considers it a sin. Not THE sin but a sin like any other sin but indeed a sin.....sin (just thought I would throw in one more sin) lol

And what, praytell, really is a sin? Even according to the Bible, the only sins that God has told us about are described in the Ten Commandments...Anything else that adds to or detracts from that list of God's Ten Laws is nothing more than a fabrication created by men. The Ten Commandments are the only Laws given to us by God Himself...And these Ten Laws were written in stone (literally & figuratively) by God's own Hand. This is another example of "sin" committed by Organized Religion, so to speak.

Originally posted by kinglizard
One can ALLWAYS turn to the Bible. It’s Gods word...

Not quite...The Bible (indeed all scripture apart from the Ten Commandments) is the Words of Men. The Ten Commandments are the only Words attributed to the Hand of God Himself. Everything else was wrought by the Hands of Men. Granted, there is a lot of wisdom in the Scripture (by that, I mean that I'm not limiting myself to the Bible itself)...Written by Men who were inspired perhaps, but still just as fallible & committing mistaken interpretations of God as any other Man might be. Just because God is Truth itself doesn't mean that the Men who wrote His Words got them inscribed or interpreted properly...
Then you get those few in Organized Religion (or anywhere else, for that matter) who just want to pervert God's Word towards their own ends...

Originally posted by spines
I may not worship God...

I see nothing wrong with that: God says, in His very First Commandment, that if you worship any god, worship Me first. That's not to say that He requires you to worship Him anyway...Generally speaking, I believe that if you follow God's Laws & treat other people the way you would like to be treated, then you're already following Him & His Word: And thus, you'd be following the "path" that He describes that will lead you to Him.

Originally posted by kinglizard
...but the bible says the only way to the father is through the son. Good deeds and intentions won't get you to Heaven, salvation found through Jesus Christ is the only way..

And yet, that's why Jesus sacrificed himself...For the redemption of all sinners, past, present & future. That is how Jesus became the "gate" to come before the Father. Whether or not you believe Jesus really was the "savior" or not is irrelevant...He sacrificed himself to save you, regardless of what you think of him for doing so. This is another point that I think Organized Religion "interprets" it wrong, so that they can gain more control over your heart & mind. God is still going to make you pay for your Sins, similar to the way a parent would spank an unruly child...But the Redemption comes after you've "learned your lesson & won't do it again." What the sacrifice of Jesus does is allow you to remain with God, instead of "getting kicked out of the House." Again, much the same way a parent would punish their child, then forgive him with a parent's love. But if the child was unrepentant & continued being too unruly, the parent my lose patience & kick the child out of the house (or give up to adoption, whatever). God's patience may be infinite, but He wouldn't want an consistantly unruly child is His House!

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by kinglizard
If they didn't accept the salvation provided by the blood of Jesus they will not spend eternity with God.

And that includes the babies

And this is one of the sins that Jesus died for...In essence, Jesus wiped that "original sin" away from new-born infants, therefore, they do start off in this world in innocence. As for those babes born with "original sin" before Jesus made his sacrifice, God (being present throughout all of time) has given them "retroactive" blessing.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Faith without works is no good

From what I understand, this is the reason that Satan became the "fallen angel"...Because he loved Man more than he loved God.
I don't see that as a justification for not trying to make the world a better place for all, but it should be done with your Love for God in mind, not for the Love of Man.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
And what, praytell, really is a sin? Even according to the Bible, the only sins that God has told us about are described in the Ten Commandments...Anything else that adds to or detracts from that list of God's Ten Laws is nothing more than a fabrication created by men. The Ten Commandments are the only Laws given to us by God Himself...And these Ten Laws were written in stone (literally & figuratively) by God's own Hand. This is another example of "sin" committed by Organized Religion, so to speak.

Oh I love it when people use the word "praytell". It gears you up for sarcastic and cocky things to come.

Yes the 10 commandments were given to us by God himself, though we read about them in the Bible don’t we?

Moses is the one that wrote about it right?

Wasn’t he a man?

We think Jesus is God and he has also given us direction through his teachings. These teachings came directly from God as written in the NT.

Yes BOTH books were written by man, though they contain Gods word and direction.

The NT gives us Jesus’ (God’s) teachings. If we live a life contrary to what Jesus (God) taught we are sinning aren't we?

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
And yet, that's why Jesus sacrificed himself...For the redemption of all sinners, past, present & future. That is how Jesus became the "gate" to come before the Father. Whether or not you believe Jesus really was the "savior" or not is irrelevant...He sacrificed himself to save you, regardless of what you think of him for doing so.

Like all things there is a choice we need to make. Accept the salvation offered by the blood of Christ or deny it.

John 1:12

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

Romans 10:9

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Those that accept will be saved.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This means he is the “way” or path to God, he is the “truth” or reality of God’s promises and the “life” or he joins his divine life to ours.

Knowing he is the “path” to God signifies that we need to take that path. To take that path is to accept Jesus and his salvation. You have a choice, accept his offer of salvation by taking his path or ignore the gift and your salvation provided through the blood of Jesus.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
From what I understand, this is the reason that Satan became the "fallen angel"...Because he loved Man more than he loved God.

I don't see that as a justification for not trying to make the world a better place for all, but it should be done with your Love for God in mind, not for the Love of Man.

NO, Satan was far from loving Man, he was jealous of Man. Lucifer resented the love god had for Adam (man) and led a revolt against God in order to take Gods throne. He can’t get to God so he takes it out on Man, the very thing God loves and he resents.



[edit on 12/18/2006 by kinglizard]